[ntpcrew13]

hey all!!! i was just wondering when should i get my first oil change. i know in the manual it says around the 15k mark, but with other new cars i have owned; ive given the 1st oil change at the 1200 mile mark. are you guys all just waiting on the 15k mark or are you guys going to do oil changes on you own besides the bmw covered maintenance? any help would be appreciated.

[siriusinvestor]

The reason it should last 15K because it is synthentic oil. I don't know if that is a fact, but that is what the dealership told me when I took delivery for my car.

[E90Fleet]

No 1200mile service is needed any more ( hasint been with BMWs for amny years)

The E90 monitors the quality of the oil and factrs that in with when it tells you a service is required

Its quite a sophisticated system that checks the quality of the oil in the engine

[Bimmerguy]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

The E90 monitors the quality of the oil and factrs that in with when it tells you a service is required

Its quite a sophisticated system that checks the quality of the oil in the engine

I don't know for certain, but I think that's a bit of a reach. My understanding is that the computer tracks the kind of driving one does, engine temperature transients, peak rpms, etc., and uses that to time the interval between recommended service sessions.

The other source of niggling concern among owners about "no first oil change needed" is that BMW changed from the 1200 mile change to 15K at the same time they started paying for the scheduled maintenance. It used to be said that the reason for the early first change was in case those "break in" miles resulted in some tiny metal bits left hanging on castings at manufacturating accumulating in the oil. The early change recommendation was never because the "quality of the oil" would deteriorate faster with a brand new engine than it would in one that had seen 100K miles.

[E90Fleet]

The early change was removed in most european makes when the manufacturing tehnology improved to such an extent that is was no longer needed


The computer does track you driving style ect, just as the E46 did, but they added the oil quality check in the E90

[duddym]

Does anyone know what the factory fill oil brand is? Is it Mobil 1......Castrol Syntec.......ground up banana peels?

[SCA]

I have a few friends that are BMW Techs and they are against the recommended 15,000 mile oil change intervals. The max that they suggested I go when I had my E46 330Ci was 5,000 miles, but I still did every 3,000 miles. Frequent oil changes, even if it is synthetic is cheap insurance.

BTW, BMW oil changes are a breeze. Want to save yourself some money? Do it yourself!

[duddym]

15,000 miles is quite a bit, even for synthetic.....10,000 would have been much better.....I'll probably do one at 7,500 miles. Anything less than that is overkill for Synthetic......unless you spend a lot of time driving in coal mines.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by SCA

I have a few friends that are BMW Techs and they are against the recommended 15,000 mile oil change intervals.

Based upon what scientific evidence?

Originally Posted by SCA

The max that they suggested I go when I had my E46 330Ci was 5,000 miles...

Pure bilge water. Modern engines burn so clean, and modern fully Synthetic oil is so stable that 15,000 miles of ordinary driving is no problem at all. Do some oil analysis and discover that your BMW Tech friends are parroting what their grandfathers told them thirty years ago.

Originally Posted by SCA

..., but I still did every 3,000 miles. Frequent oil changes, even if it is synthetic is cheap insurance.

And an absolute waste of money, resources and not too good for the environment either.

Originally Posted by SCA

BTW, BMW oil changes are a breeze. Want to save yourself some money? Do it yourself!

I'm thinking that it's not so easy any more given that the E90 does not have a dip stick, so my oil extractor will no longer work. :mad:

Best Regards,
Shipo

[johnfkitchen]

Mobil guarantees 15,000 miles for Mobil 1 Extended Performance - see http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Oils_FAQs.aspx

Their words "Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year."

[duddym]

Originally Posted by johnfkitchen

Mobil guarantees 15,000 miles for Mobil 1 Extended Performance - see http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Oils_FAQs.aspx

Their words "Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year."

Thanks for the info........so, the e90 definately comes with Mobil 1 Extended Performance?

Frankly, I'm not that concerned about the interval (especially with synthetic) - I generally don't keep a car for more than 4 years, anyway. So, it'll be under warranty the entire time I have it. If I planned on keeping a car for 10 years / 100,000 miles, then I would be super-anal about changing the oil......

[ward]

I'm pretty sure BMW is in bed with castrol for oil, so it's probably syntec, but rebadged as a bmw product

[bimmer4me]

A little off-topic: FWIW, a co-worker had a 93 Honda Accord and changed the oil every 70,000 miles. Yes, you read that correctly...as in seventy thousand miles. She said she never had any problems and was working fine with 165,000 and had only changed the oil twice. That's just plain INSANE!!!!!! Her definition of "fine" might be a tad off.

[duddym]

Originally Posted by ward

I'm pretty sure BMW is in bed with castrol for oil, so it's probably syntec, but rebadged as a bmw product

That's too bad.......I would prefer Mobil 1. Castrol Syntec is not a true synthetic motor oil. It's actually a (Group III) semi-synthetic product. Not to open up a can of worms, or anything.......I suppose we just need to trust those BMW engineers.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by ward

I'm pretty sure BMW is in bed with castrol for oil, so it's probably syntec, but rebadged as a bmw product

True. The BMW Synthetic is the German version of Castrol's Syntec product. The difference is that here in the U.S.A., Syntec is a Group III Hydrocracked oil while the German Syntec (clearly says "Made in Germany" on the label) is a true fully synthetic Group IV oil.

Having said that, and having proclaimed myself as a proponent of the 15,000 OCI, I will not let any BMW of mine go more than 7,500 on the BMW Synthetic. Why? A couple of reasons.

1) I've used exclusively Mobil-1 in all of my cars since the late 1970s, and I've grown very accustomed to how clean and apparently well protected that stuff keeps my engines. Funny story: I bought a left over new 1979 Scirocco in January of 1980, and for some reason the dealership had lost the Owner's Manual. As such, I had no idea that the Scirocco's engine had solid valve lifters that needed to be serviced (shimmed) every 15,000 miles or so. At just over 70,000 miles I started hearing some valve train noise so I called my local VW dealer and asked if valve adjustments were necessary. "Yup, every 15,000 miles." was the answer. "Why do you ask?"

"Uhhh, well I've just started hearing a hint of valve train noise and thought I'd better check."

"Okay, how many miles do you have on your car?"

"Seventy two thousand."

"What!?! And you've never had your valves adjusted?"

"Uhhh, no."

"Are you sure?"

"Well, its never been back to a VW dealer since I bought it, and I've performed all of the maintenance on it so far, so yes, I'm sure."

"Sir, without even looking, I can tell you that you are going to need a new cylinder head."

I took the car in the next day and was fortunate enough to be able to watch the technician working on my car from a window inside the waiting room. When he pulled the cam cover off I saw him do a Curley Howard style double take at how clean it was in there. He immediately picked up his work order (I assume to check the mileage), did another double take, poked his head in through the window (I assume to check the mileage again), and came out shaking his head. He then produced a set of feeler gauges to test the valve lash of each valve, and just kept on shaking his head as he tested each of the eight gaps.

When I picked up the car he came out and asked me what kind of oil I was using in it because the cam and lifters had less wear on them than a typical car with only 15,000 miles on the clock.

I've never (knowingly, see #2) gone back to conventional oils since then.

2) When I got my 1999 328i, I was more than willing to believe the 15,000 mile OCI was perfectly acceptable, and simply took the car in when the OBC told me to do so. Just before turning the car in at lease end, I happened to take a peek inside the cam cover and I was stunned by how much varnish was inside there after only 45,000 miles. And there was the smell, ugh! Smell? Yup, do any of you old salts remember what it smelled like when you would tear down an old 1970s or older vintage engine that had been run on Pennsylvania Grade Crude oil (Quaker State, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head)? Yup, that smell. I can only assume that either my local BMW dealer was using non-Synthetic oil (which many BMW dealers were accused of a few years ago) or that the BMW Synthetic is not up to snuff when compared to Mobil-1.

Based upon those two reasons, and not wanting to take a chance with the BMW oil any longer, just in case, I decided that 7,500 miles was quite long enough on the BMW oil. When I got my 530i I started doing my own 7,500 oil change with Mobil-1 0W-40, and am quite pleased with the results. If I ever keep a BMW beyond the free maintenance period I will most likely leave Mobil-1 in the engine for the full 15,000 OCI, until then, 7,500 is the order of the day.

Best Regards,
Shipo

[silverado]

Shipo,

Very informative! Thank you.

How would you recommend getting these oil changes for someone who wouldn't do it himself and while still going in for the BMW scheduled maintenance? I have purchased my E90 and it is likely that I keep it beyond the free service period.

Thanks!

[ntpcrew13]

wow.. thanks to everyone with all there help and information. this forum has been very helpful. i appreciate everyone looking out for each other on this board. thanks again

[shipo]

Originally Posted by silverado

Shipo,

Very informative! Thank you.

How would you recommend getting these oil changes for someone who wouldn't do it himself and while still going in for the BMW scheduled maintenance? I have purchased my E90 and it is likely that I keep it beyond the free service period.

Thanks!

I can think of a couple of ways:

1) Simply go to your dealer and pay them for a mid-OCI oil change. Probably fairly expensive.
2) Buy 7 quarts of Mobil-1 0W-40 (Autozone sells it) and a filter from your dealer and go to an independent shop (preferrably one that specializes on European cars) and have them do the oil change.
3) Find a local shop that specializes in BMWs and just let them do the whole thing, they should already have either Mobil-1 or the BMW Synthetic oil on hand as well as the filters.

Best Regards,
Shipo

[bimmer4me]

A friend of mine would purchase his own oil (Mobil-1) and then take it the BMW dealer for his oil changes. The service department would use his oil instead and didn't charge anything extra.

[romeo26]

wow umm...i dont think i can even stand not changing the oil for even 6000miles that would bug me so much!!! i guess iam old fasioned but my e30 still runs like a dream, and i push the car very hard!!

[duddym]

Shipo,
Excellent (and very informative) piece of writing. When I get my e90, I will definately adhere to the 7,500 mile interim oil change.

I experienced a bit of an oil sludge issue with my Audi. Given this, and after reading your testimonial, I am now a true believer.

duddym

[shipo]

Originally Posted by romeo26

wow umm...i dont think i can even stand not changing the oil for even 6000miles that would bug me so much!!! i guess iam old fasioned but my e30 still runs like a dream, and i push the car very hard!!

How often do you change the oil in your E30?

I ask because the difference between the environment inside you E30 mill and the one in the E90 is like night and day. Consider the following:

- The E90 has a seven quart oil sump, meaning that it holds nearly twice as much oil as other 3.0 liter engines (I don’t know how large the E30 sump is). That means fewer trips through the engine getting the #$*^%~!@ beat out of it, allowing it to last longer. Hence a longer OCI for the E90.
- The E90 runs on fully synthetic oil which is far more able to withstand the acid causing effects of holding water in suspension (until it boils off) than the oil your E30 was designed to run on. Hence a longer OCI for the E90.
- That same synthetic oil is also capable of holding far greater amounts of particulate matter in suspension than the conventional oil your car was designed to run on
- The E90 burns fuel that is considerably cleaner than the fuel that BMW was burning in the E30 prototypes, which they used to calculate the OCI for your car. Hence a longer OCI for the E90.
- The E90 uses a very advanced electronic system to optimize each and every combustion event so that the maximum amount of power and the minimum amount of pollution is generated from every gallon of fuel. Hence a longer OCI for the E90.

Sum it all up and you have oil that is far more capable coupled with an engine that produces the barest fraction of the combustion byproducts of your E30 engine, added to a sophisticated algorithm that determines when the oil is used up, and you have a car that can easily attain 15,000 miles or more between oil changes (assuming the proper oil, which as I stated before, is an assumption that I’m not willing to make about BMW oil).

As an example, if one was to use a 5,000 mile OCI for an E30, they would be doing far more damage to that engine than if they were to use a 15,000 mile OCI on an E90.

Best Regards,
Shipo