M1 engine speculation

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by JimD

I
Is the "best" arrangement a twin turbo twin scroll? And does BMW get any "twin scroll" type benefit from the current twin turbos of the N54? In other words, does splitting the exhaust between two turbos eliminate linking any cylinders with exhaust valves open at the same time through the exhaust manafold?

I don't see any way that could work on a 6cyl engine. The number of cylinders has to be evenly divisable by the number of turbine wheels, and in the case of two twin scroll turbos you've essentially got four inlets to feed with 6 cylinders.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by Advevo

The idea of a turbo 6 cil is stupid for a ///M1

Why because we have an 135i already with chip 326hp. So if people want turbo s buy a 135i. What s the point of bringing a ///M1 turbo.

The M1 should be an atmo with 345hp. A drivers ///M car should always be an atmo.

Turbo ///M are good for the big cruise ships like M5 M3 and X5 X6M. A drivers car like the 1 series deserves only one engine and that is a high rev atmo engine with 345hp. Everything else is only made to make easy money. The 135i was enough then.

Wake up bro... performance NA engine's, don't get you 30.7mpg...!


Efficiency is a key metric when people buy a car, even a sports car. I loved the fact that my Vette (when on long trips) got nearly 30MPG. Lets not forget that the M1 is a CAR first and foremost.

I plan on owning this car a long time and giving it to my kid in 20 years.. gas might be $7 by then. So yes, efficiency is important and NA is backward science.

Learn to modulate your throttle differently... (or have a different throttle map), but with capacious amounts of torque, you have to be more precise with the throttle, because any blip will now "do something" instead of just climb rpm's..

The crusade for a normally aspirated //M1 is moot. Sorry.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Wake up bro... performance NA engine's, don't get you 30.7mpg...!


Efficiency is a key metric when people buy a car, even a sports car. I loved the fact that my Vette (when on long trips) got nearly 30MPG. Lets not forget that the M1 is a CAR first and foremost.

I plan on owning this car a long time and giving it to my kid in 20 years.. gas might be $7 by then. So yes, efficiency is important and NA is backward science.

Learn to modulate your throttle differently... (or have a different throttle map), but with capacious amounts of torque, you have to be more precise with the throttle, because any blip will now "do something" instead of just climb rpm's..

The crusade for a normally aspirated //M1 is moot. Sorry.

It's funny that you talk about the Vette (which has a large N/A engine) getting 30MPG and then turn around and say that BMW can't build one for the M1 to do the same.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I guess the fact that we're seeing 100Hp from a $400 piggyback on the N54 just escapes you?

What the manufacturers are trying to protect is the proift they turn in the service department. You don't need access to propriety information to be able to diagnose a car, you just need the data being generated.

hunh..?

You mean people who are leasing cars are seeing this, not owners! BMW still owns those juiced up vehicles and are seeing the warrenty work fall into their hands.

Do you really think that as computers get more powerful, that engine managment system's won't ..? BMW can use multiplexing, or even use a different harness all together. A 12 year old can make a juicebox.. it's nothing other than overboosting, or nothing other than stealing HP, in lue of over-all durability.

BMW could of easily just released the N54 with 360+hp, but they also knew over time engine components wouldn't handle the strain 4~7 years down the raod... but juice box owners simple don't care and undermine BMW.

BMW is trying to protect their OWNER who might buy a used BMW and have a bad experience and never come back.... because some punk spent $400 and juiced his lease up, to be a pozer..!



If you are a car enthusiast, the first thing you do when seeking added performance is start on making the car more effecient and de-stressed. Thus FMIC, inlet, lighter, etc..

Oddly, BMW own performance package addresses some of these issues as well.



So, as you see each car company moving into higher technology for their vehicles, expect to see more patents to differentiate each manufacturer in the effeciency game. BMW isn't going to let some back yard mechanic steal from them anymore... so they will clamp down!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

hunh..?

You mean people who are leasing cars are seeing this, not owners! BMW still owns those juiced up vehicles and are seeing the warrenty work fall into their hands.

!

Are you really this oblivious? There are THOUSANDS of N54 owners running various tunes.

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Do you really think that as computers get more powerful, that engine managment system's won't ..? BMW can use multiplexing, or even use a different harness all together. A 12 year old can make a juicebox.. it's nothing other than overboosting, or nothing other than stealing HP, in lue of over-all durability.

BMW could of easily just released the N54 with 360+hp, but they also knew over time engine components wouldn't handle the strain 4~7 years down the raod... but juice box owners simple don't care and undermine BMW.

BMW is trying to protect their OWNER who might buy a used BMW and have a bad experience and never come back.... because some punk spent $400 and juiced his lease up, to be a pozer..!



If you are a car enthusiast, the first thing you do when seeking added performance is start on making the car more effecient and de-stressed. Thus FMIC, inlet, lighter, etc..
!

You can't be serious. JB3 owners are punks and pozers? Are you 16 years old or something?

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Oddly, BMW own performance package addresses some of these issues as well.



So, as you see each car company moving into higher technology for their vehicles, expect to see more patents to differentiate each manufacturer in the effeciency game. BMW isn't going to let some back yard mechanic steal from them anymore... so they will clamp down!

Who's stealing anything from BMW by having the ability to diagnose it? It's not their car once it leaves the showroom floor, and forcing an owner to return to the dealership for service is against the law. They can have all the patents they want. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with being able to diagnose a vehicle without dealership support.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about here, and it's more obvious with every post.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Are you really this oblivious? There are THOUSANDS of N54 owners running various tunes.

You can't be serious. JB3 owners are punks and pozers? Are you 16 years old or something?

Who's stealing anything from BMW by having the ability to diagnose it? It's not their car once it leaves the showroom floor, and forcing an owner to return to the dealership for service is against the law. They can have all the patents they want. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with being able to diagnose a vehicle without dealership support.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about here, and it's more obvious with every post.

Stop it..

We know for a fact that JB owner are younger people who lease their cars. Matter of fact, start a poll and ask how many OWNERS (people who actually bought their cars) are using after market, piggybacks? Thousands..? lulz..

Understand, I have no problem calling out piggy-back owners. They are pozers or wannabee's, because they know the proper way to get +100 HP, but don't want to spend the money to get it, so they void their warranty slowly harm their engine, then trade it back in...

They are also liers.. yeah, I'm that^ harsh.



lastly,

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

It's funny that you talk about the Vette (which has a large N/A engine) getting 30MPG and then turn around and say that BMW can't build one for the M1 to do the same.

Really..?

Do you even understand how a Corvette gets such outstanding MPG..? It's 5.7L ~ 7.0L, turns at 1,100 rpm @ 70 MPH in 6th gear.
(ie: enough torque to turn such tall gears, at low RPMs)

Coincidentally what gas mileage does the M3 get? Uno, with it's (no torque) hi-revving v8..? M1 should be a turbo-diesel..


Why does you argument seem illogical to me..?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Stop it..

We know for a fact that JB owner are younger people who lease their cars. Matter of fact, start a poll and ask how many OWNERS (people who actually bought their cars) are using after market, piggybacks? Thousands..? lulz..

Understand, I have no problem calling out piggy-back owners. They are pozers or wannabee's, because they know the proper way to get +100 HP, but don't want to spend the money to get it, so they void their warranty slowly harm their engine, then trade it back in...

They are also liers.. yeah, I'm that^ harsh.

..?

I'm 35, own my car outright, and have had a tune on it since it had 5k miles on the clock. There are THOUSANDS of people just like me running tunes on these cars who also own them. You're not harsh, you're ignorant. We're not lying to anyone.

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

lastly,




Really..?

Do you even understand how a Corvette gets such outstanding MPG..? It's 5.7L ~ 7.0L, turns at 1,100 rpm @ 70 MPH in 6th gear.
(ie: enough torque to turn such tall gears, at low RPMs)

Coincidentally what gas mileage does the M3 get? Uno, with it's (no torque) hi-revving v8..? M1 should be a turbo-diesel..


Why does you argument seem illogical to me..?

I understand exactly how a Corvette gets such good gas mileage. What I don't understand is why BMW can't do the same thing without turbochargers.

Maybe the American manufacturers have outengineered the Germans?

[amdmaxx]

There is no replacement for displacement.
Corvette is in 1800-2000 rpm range @ 65mph in 6th gear.. That's like you walking slowly - no real strain on the engine.
Plus it's very small, light and aerodynamic (cod is under .30 I believe)

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I understand exactly how a Corvette gets such good gas mileage. What I don't understand is why BMW can't do the same thing without turbochargers.

Maybe the American manufacturers have outengineered the Germans?

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'm 35, own my car outright, and have had a tune on it since it had 5k miles on the clock. There are THOUSANDS of people just like me running tunes on these cars who also own them. You're not harsh, you're ignorant. We're not lying to anyone.

I understand exactly how a Corvette gets such good gas mileage. What I don't understand is why BMW can't do the same thing without turbochargers.

Maybe the American manufacturers have outengineered the Germans?

Great, you own your car... do you think, you mirror the typical piggy-back owner..? Honestly? Also, why did you choose the JB? (Price?)


Secondly, Do you understand the fundamental differences in over-square vs under-square engine design..? And how the BMW and the Chevy engines are different pursuits?

How torque is important to the characteristic of an engine, thus a car..? If so.. then why ask me such silly questions?


Lastly, a light, 3.0 liter engine, making 345hp, & 310ft-lb of torque @ 1200 getting 30.7 MPG... is incredible. (Specially when we know the actuals will be more like 365hp/340ft-lb of tq.) Thats nearly the same engine specs as a 00' Vette with half the liters..

Ahhh... can you smell the effeciency..? //M1 bound!

[Spartikus]

Numb3rs is spot on. I would not recommend anybody to buy a pre-owned N54. Its fine and dandy that some people running tunes have been fine. I'm talking 7-10 yrs down the road. The majority of these cars are leased, especially by younger people. Jeremy, you are one of few that put his money where his mouth is.

[AlBel1214]

I bought my 135i and put a JB on it... Guess I am a poser? ha...

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Numb3rs is spot on. I would not recommend anybody to buy a pre-owned N54. Its fine and dandy that some people running tunes have been fine. I'm talking 7-10 yrs down the road. The majority of these cars are leased, especially by younger people. Jeremy, you are one of few that put his money where his mouth is.

Where are you guys coming up with this? It's complete nonsense. There are LOTS of owners who have tuned their cars. All you have to do is spend a little time in the N54 engine tuning section and you'll see that.

I'm not at all in the minority.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Great, you own your car... do you think, you mirror the typical piggy-back owner..? Honestly? Also, why did you choose the JB? (Price?)
!

I am absolutely a typical piggyback owner. I chose the JB3 because it represents good value, ease of installation, excellent customer service, and has a great track record.

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Secondly, Do you understand the fundamental differences in over-square vs under-square engine design..? And how the BMW and the Chevy engines are different pursuits?

How torque is important to the characteristic of an engine, thus a car..? If so.. then why ask me such silly questions?


Lastly, a light, 3.0 liter engine, making 345hp, & 310ft-lb of torque @ 1200 getting 30.7 MPG... is incredible. (Specially when we know the actuals will be more like 365hp/340ft-lb of tq.) Thats nearly the same engine specs as a 00' Vette with half the liters..

Ahhh... can you smell the effeciency..? //M1 bound!

I understand all about over square and under square, and it's got nothing to do with the topic at hand. You made the statement that the Vette was getting 30MPG, and then turned around and said " So yes, efficiency is important and NA is backward science."

Is NA good or no good? Make up your mind. Comparing a modern BMW engine with a 10 year old Vette makes no sense whatsoever. GM has upped the HP and upped the fuel economy since then and you know it. Of course they're making more power with less displacement....it's a forced induciton motor!

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Where are you guys coming up with this? It's complete nonsense. There are LOTS of owners who have tuned their cars. All you have to do is spend a little time in the N54 engine tuning section and you'll see that.

I'm not at all in the minority.

I'm aware there are plenty of people with N54 tunes. I never said there weren't. I was implying that most of those people did not buy, they leased. We honestly don't know how well these cars will hold up over years and years of abuse. It's only been out for two years. No? Let me further clarify where I stand. Those that are modding these cars probably dont plan on keeping it for an extended period of time(over 4yrs). Ofcourse there are exceptions.

[AlBel1214]

^^ Where are you getting the data that most tuners leased thier cars?? I am not saying it is not true I just don't know where you are pulling that...

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

^^ Where are you getting the data that most tuners leased thier cars?? I am not saying it is not true I just don't know where you are pulling that...

I've been paying attention on these boards for almost 3 years. There are so many countless Buy vs. Leasing threads on here. At this point you connect who has been more vocal about their mods and if they leased or not. That just seems to be the trend. Hopefully Spartikus can find us some concrete info.

[AlBel1214]

^^^ Agreed I just think it would be tough to cross reference who voted for what and then the threads where said voters talk about thier tunes... BUT ya never know maybe we need another poll *Buy w/mods vs Lease w/mods

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

^^^ Agreed I just think it would be tough to cross reference who voted for what and then the threads where said voters talk about thier tunes... BUT ya never know maybe we need another poll *Buy w/mods vs Lease w/mods

I've been cross reference from memory over the last years... here and elsewhere (N54tech and Vishnu, etc). The answer is obvious. But more importantly, even if you do buy... will you DECLARE that you hot-modified your BMW to the buyer of your car..? I think not!


Matter of fact, you can easily find the proof you need here on these forums with newbies asking about JB/PROcede, etc.. only to find them in other threads talking about their lease prices, etc. or coming right out and asking if they are detectable or removable when they turning in their lease, etc..

Two independent polls (lease/buy), then a month later (stock/piggyback)...

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

I'm aware there are plenty of people with N54 tunes. I never said there weren't. I was implying that most of those people did not buy, they leased.

I said there were lots of OWNERS with tunes. Meaning people who bought the car, not leased it.

[JimD]

BMW could improve the gas mileage of their cars by changing the gearing. My N52 would pull a higher final gear lowering engine rpm and improving gas mileage. That has to be even more true for a N54. But it seems like my e88 would be running at about redline in 5th at it's top speed or around 6000 rpm in 6th. So these gears are usable right up to top speed. If it was geared to turn 2000 rpm in 6th at 70 mph or something like that, I would need to downshift to pass quickly (now it helps but you don't really need to) and at some point well before you got to top speed, you would need to downshift. And the jump between gears would have to increase at some point affecting acceleration. If you make your cars to actually do 155 mph, you don't gear them to turn supper low rpm on the interstate. At least that is my take on it.

Jim

[AlBel1214]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

I've been cross reference from memory over the last years... here and elsewhere (N54tech and Vishnu, etc). The answer is obvious. But more importantly, even if you do buy... will you DECLARE that you hot-modified your BMW to the buyer of your car..? I think not!


Matter of fact, you can easily find the proof you need here on these forums with newbies asking about JB/PROcede, etc.. only to find them in other threads talking about their lease prices, etc. or coming right out and asking if they are detectable or removable when they turning in their lease, etc..

Two independent polls (lease/buy), then a month later (stock/piggyback)...

I guess you pay more attention to detail then me b/c I have never really connected the two and I read this forum every day...

It would really need a poll with both aspects to prove your point in an easy fashion..(not saying it is wrong)

[lib]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I am absolutely a typical piggyback owner.

You aren't a typical anything. You actually know wtf you're talking about most of the time. The typical person does not.

(Whether or not we always agree with you is a different matter )