More Details on the BMW M1 Design (including wheel teaser picture)

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

Secondly, we are talking about the car, ... we all are! That is why we are here. A convertible M1 is pointless! No enthusiast wouldn't want to disrupt the fine balance of a pure M car, because of vanity.

You obviously dont understand the point of a convertible then. They are not about vanity.

Its about being more in tune with the environment, not in a hippie kind of way, but in a way that makes you feel less isolated from the world. The elevated sounds and the rush of the wind come together and just make you happy, even if youre simply driving along the highway at 60.

This is why BMW makes M convertibles (Z3 M rdster, Z4 M rdster, 3 generations of M3, M6 vert, and soon the M1) Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

But some people just dont get it...

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

You obviously dont understand the point of a convertible then. They are not about vanity.

Its about being more in tune with the environment, not in a hippie kind of way, but in a way that makes you feel less isolated from the world. The elevated sounds and the rush of the wind come together and just make you happy, even if youre simply driving along the highway at 60.

This is why BMW makes M convertibles (Z3 M rdster, Z4 M rdster, 3 generations of M3, M6 vert, and soon the M1) Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

But some people just dont get it...

I do understand, but when I want that^^ effect, I ride my bike..


Otherwise, while driving, my environment is the tarmac, so I let the wheel and shifter convey all the extensions/externals I need.

I enjoy driving the machine, not riding along in it.


Lastly, verts do change the characteristic of a car, considerably! Not just a few tenths 0~60 times (which I don't personally consider as a metric when purchasing a car), but rather how it handles, sounds, takes bumps, etc. They are different and that difference interferes with intimacy & closeness of a car. The exact thing I don't want when purchasing a sport car.


So yes, I have always considered a convertible as vanity. But please understand I am not passing judgment, or taking a shot @ you. I don't even care. That is just my view point and am simply offering that as my opinion.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by ridin135

Can't wait to see the bug eyed headlights fixed. I will definatly be getting one of these when they are released,

I've been trying to figure out exactly what Scott meant. I put a 335i picture next to an M3 and I think it's the new front bumper that gives that effect. I think the headlight remains the same but it will have a more sunk-in effect. I guess we'll see in less than a month.

[SF848]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

I do understand, but when I want that^^ effect, I ride my bike..

I actually feel more closed in on my bike with the full faced helmet and leathers than I do in a car with a sunroof. I can see a convertible being far more open and connected with the environment.

I dont see why someone would have a problem with someone wanting a faster better handling car for the mountain roads that is also a convertible

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

You obviously dont understand the point of a convertible then. They are not about vanity.

Its about being more in tune with the environment, not in a hippie kind of way, but in a way that makes you feel less isolated from the world. The elevated sounds and the rush of the wind come together and just make you happy, even if youre simply driving along the highway at 60.

This is why BMW makes M convertibles (Z3 M rdster, Z4 M rdster, 3 generations of M3, M6 vert, and soon the M1) Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

+ 1

[AlBel1214]

During the summer I love driving my jeep wrangler with the top and doors off... Granted its a monster 4 banger that can barely go 80 it is fun ... Saying that I could only imagine how fun it would be to actually ride in something open like that putting down 300 HP...

[Jaguar66]

!

[adc]

Originally Posted by RobMason

Yeah, well, the steady rule for all E30 North American M3s was a sunroof (except for a limited number of moonroofs in the 90-91 model year.

I understand it was fitted as standard - but are you sure there wasn't a "delete" option?

Also, my point was that BMW has changed these things around many times, so there is no absolute rule regarding sunroofs and moonroofs. Simply looking at current models is not a perfect way of predicting the future of the sunroof on something like the M1. All we can make are educated guesses.

Please don't construe my comments as criticism of other people's pleasure of gazing at airplanes through holes in their roofs. All I'm saying is that I'd be glad if BMW kept this as an option...

[southlight]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

You obviously dont understand the point of a convertible then. They are not about vanity.

Its about being more in tune with the environment, not in a hippie kind of way, but in a way that makes you feel less isolated from the world. The elevated sounds and the rush of the wind come together and just make you happy, even if youre simply driving along the highway at 60.

This is why BMW makes M convertibles (Z3 M rdster, Z4 M rdster, 3 generations of M3, M6 vert, and soon the M1) Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

+2
Very well worded.


Best regards,
south

[KWY91]

Holy crap that looks like an awesome starting package for the M1! Can't wait to see how things unfold

[cap_freez]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

You obviously dont understand the point of a convertible then. They are not about vanity.

Its about being more in tune with the environment, not in a hippie kind of way, but in a way that makes you feel less isolated from the world. The elevated sounds and the rush of the wind come together and just make you happy, even if youre simply driving along the highway at 60.

This is why BMW makes M convertibles (Z3 M rdster, Z4 M rdster, 3 generations of M3, M6 vert, and soon the M1) Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

But some people just dont get it...

+∞

Couldn't have said it better

[Jaguar66]

!

[Numb3rs]

I agree, I think all cars should be verts, so that we can watch our hair blow in the wind...

But that kinda hard to do with a CF roof... thus reality has to sink in at some point. As for the reason you buy whatever you buy... I don't care. I would never purchase a car that I am looking at, in vert form, for the reasons stated.

Jeep... yeah, BMW M1? lol...

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

I agree, I think all cars should be verts, so that we can watch our hair blow in the wind...

But that kinda hard to do with a CF roof... thus reality has to sink in at some point. As for the reason you buy whatever you buy... I don't care. I would never purchase a car that I am looking at, in vert form, for the reasons stated.

Jeep... yeah, BMW M1? lol...

And yet again you miss the entire point of my post and you simply try to hide that fact with sarcasm.

There are many Supercars that come in vert variants, so like it or not, there are a bunch of people out there that want convertibles that are very fast. Just as there are people that want hybrids that dont look like tadpoles.

Heres a few cars that I can think of with removeable roofs off the cuff: Aston Martin V8 Vantage and DBS, Audi R8 V8 and V10, Ferrari 430 Scuderia and F50, Koningsegg CC8, Pagani Zonda, Porsche 911 Turbo and Carrera GT, Lamborghini Gallardo and Murcielago, BMW Z8, Bugatti Veyron

But as ive said before, some people just dont get it. And you are obviously one of them.

[SF848]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

I agree, I think all cars should be verts, so that we can watch our hair blow in the wind...

But that kinda hard to do with a CF roof... thus reality has to sink in at some point. As for the reason you buy whatever you buy... I don't care. I would never purchase a car that I am looking at, in vert form, for the reasons stated.

Jeep... yeah, BMW M1? lol...

maybe I missed it, but when did this turn into someone trying to convince you to buy an M1 in vert form?

Why hate on people that want a sportier car than the 135i but in vert form? Your reasoning makes no sense to me.

It seems like you need to look at a completely different car than a BMW based on your points. You complain that a vert significantly makes the performance worse than the coupe form but I dont think that having rear seats, leather/ette seats, sound insulation, glass windows, a radio, and all the other gizmos standard on the 1 series coupes helps the performance either.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

And yet again you miss the entire point of my post and you simply try to hide that fact with sarcasm.

There are many Supercars that come in vert variants, so like it or not, there are a bunch of people out there that want convertibles that are very fast. Just as there are people that want hybrids that dont look like tadpoles.

Heres a few cars that I can think of with removeable roofs off the cuff: Aston Martin V8 Vantage and DBS, Audi R8 V8 and V10, Ferrari 430 Scuderia and F50, Koningsegg CC8, Pagani Zonda, Porsche 911 Turbo and Carrera GT, Lamborghini Gallardo and Murcielago, BMW Z8, Bugatti Veyron

But as ive said before, some people just dont get it. And you are obviously one of them.

My friend, you missed my point.

1) I don't care for convertibles..

2) The M1 isn't a convertible..



Nothing more. If my opinion steps on your ego because of the vanity remark, oh well. It's my opinion. What concerns me is that your emotional about it.

This is a message board, specifically a M1 sub-forum. Ironically, I have never seen a race team cut the top off a car for better characteristics. Thus, I stand by my opinion... thank you very much.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

My friend, you missed my point.

1) I don't care for convertibles..

2) The M1 isn't a convertible..



Nothing more. If my opinion steps on your ego because of the vanity remark, oh well. It's my opinion. What concerns me is that your emotional about it.

This is a message board, specifically a M1 sub-forum. Ironically, I have never seen a race team cut the top off a car for better characteristics. Thus, I stand by my opinion... thank you very much.

i think the fact that your opinion is baseless is the "problem". verts have a LONG history of being sportscars. baseless opinion = ignorance...

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Numb3rs

My friend, you missed my point.

1) I don't care for convertibles..

2) The M1 isn't a convertible..

Nothing more. If my opinion steps on your ego because of the vanity remark, oh well. It's my opinion. What concerns me is that your emotional about it.

This is a message board, specifically a M1 sub-forum. Ironically, I have never seen a race team cut the top off a car for better characteristics. Thus, I stand by my opinion... thank you very much.

The vanity remark set me off a bit. And im sorry that I become a bit emmotional when someone is saying very ignorant things about the type of car that I love (aka verts), actually, no im not. I choose to think that that emmotion comes with being an enthusiast.

We are all enthusiasts because we have our emmotions staked in the cars we drive or the companies that we support.

Am I crying that somebody dared to say something bad about something that I like? Nope. I am channeling that emmotion into a proper counter point. Something that you fail to do time and time again. Because if I remember correctly I wrote something to extent of "a convertible is more that the sum of its losses".

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Because some of us Enthusiasts are willing to give up a tenth to 60 and few decimals of peak lateral Gs in order to drive something more than the sum of its losses.

I will never argue that verts handle better than their coupe counter-parts, especially when that vert is essentally a modified coupe, because that isnt what verts are about.

You also keep saying that the M1 isnt a convertible. But you never seem to explain why. Ive given a list of cars that are indeed sold in either drop top or pop top variants, thus making the point that even all out performance cars come in vert variants (like the 430 Scuderia).

But yet again, as I have said, some people just dont get it...


Just a quick edit:
I just re-read the post I quoted and that got me thinking.

Some of the fastest cars in the world, in fact, have open cockpits. Lets see if I can cite a few, every ALMS LMP1 car with the exception of the 908 and the Aston Lola has an open cockpit, all Formula 1 cars have open cockpits, Top Fuel Drag cars are open, as are many other forms of high octane racing including IndyCar and Karting.

But hey, these cars arent actually that fast because they have no roof, right?

[PrimoM3]

I'm not sure how we got so far off track here... we we're originally talking about choosing a sunroof on the ///M1 instead of a carbon roof. That is ludicrous. Period. I don't personally care for convertibles (I had an S2000 many moons ago), but I didn't say they couldn't be sports cars or that companies didn't make them or that people don't want to go fast with the sun on their face.

My point was: If you're looking at the ///M1 and considering a sunroof over the carbon roof you might need your head examined, and an ///M is probably not the right car for you.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Primo135

I'm not sure how we got so far off track here... we we're originally talking about choosing a sunroof on the ///M1 instead of a carbon roof. That is ludicrous. Period. I don't personally care for convertibles (I had an S2000 many moons ago), but I didn't say they couldn't be sports cars or that companies didn't make them or that people don't want to go fast with the sun on their face.

My point was: If you're looking at the ///M1 and considering a sunroof over the carbon roof you might need your head examined, and an ///M is probably not the right car for you.

And for this I am sorry. After rereaing the thread I realize that I was a bit quick to jump on you, and by doing that I misunderstood your point, I am sorry.

But this really isnt about your comment anymore.

But I do apologize for taking this thread off topic.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Some of the fastest cars in the world, in fact, have open cockpits. Lets see if I can cite a few, every ALMS LMP1 car with the exception of the 908 and the Aston Lola has an open cockpit, all Formula 1 cars have open cockpits, Top Fuel Drag cars are open, as are many other forms of high octane racing including IndyCar and Karting.

But hey, these cars arent actually that fast because they have no roof, right?

well fwiw that's only because of the rules. you cannot argue against the aero advantage of a roof, but a roof does not make a sportscar. a vert can have a ton of chassis rigidity as long as it was designed that way. case in point Honda S2000. it has a massive "backbone" that makes it handle like a supercar. no roof needed...

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

And for this I am sorry. After rereaing the thread I realize that I was a bit quick to jump on you, and by doing that I misunderstood your point, I am sorry.

But this really isnt about your comment anymore.

But I do apologize for taking this thread off topic.