BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      07-01-2015, 06:38 PM   #1
dcaron9999
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Spring rate options for 135i

I run 201/ 503 lbs/in Swift Spec-R springs with Bilstein B8 dampers on my 135i.

According to the Swift web site, the springs are designed for the the upper limits of the OEM shock valving. Because of this, I assume that the B8's can handle a little more "spring". I have contacted Bilstein to confirm what the maximum spring rate is.

Im looking at options for stiffer front springs to reduce body lean when cornering at the track. Does anyone know if there are stiffer springs options out there which will not overwhelm the Bilstein B8's?

I may keep my 135i-specific Spec-R springs, and opt for a stiffer E93/M3 or H&R Front Sway bar if above is not feasible. Im not interested in spending on coilovers at this time. Besides, I would run into spring perch clearance issues with my 255/35R18 tires. Im not willing to run smaller tires in the front, and spend money on coilovers.

Swift makes stiffers springs for other BMW chassis, but there is no information about the (length and diameter), so I cant tell if the springs would work on the E82 chassis. Ive sent Swift Support an email about this.

As a reference, spring rates for the E82/135i are:
BMW M sport = 120/350 lbs/in.
Dinan = 144/490.
Cobb = 148/457.
BMW performance = 160/420.
Swift Spec-R springs = 201/ 503.

E92/M3 specific Swift Spec-R springs are 279/670.
F82/M4 specific Swift Spec-R springs are 279/726.


http://www.swiftsprings.net/products...ct/spec-r.html
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-03-2015 at 03:33 AM..
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      07-01-2015, 07:02 PM   #2
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I'm interested in this as well, mostly because we both have similar setups.
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      07-01-2015, 07:11 PM   #3
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Arrow The Ultimate Handling Machine...

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TC Kline’s suspension tuning transforms the entry-level 128i Coupe into a car that can rival the 1 Series M Coupe for pure driving fun.
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.VZSBWvkipD8
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      07-01-2015, 07:15 PM   #4
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Thanks Dackel.

I read this article before. Soft springs and strong dampers is what TCK recommends.

I cannot find BMW 1 -series specific "stand-alone" spring applications on TC Kline's site though...

I wonder if they do custom springs (for non-coilover applications)...
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-02-2015 at 06:22 AM..
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      07-01-2015, 08:47 PM   #5
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Rear springs aren't too difficult to upgrade. I previously had BMW performance springs and swapped some rear coilover springs with higher rates. I'm using HPA height adjuster and some spring pad adapters to fit the 65mm ID springs.

Front springs are harder. E92 Non-M spring should be possible, though M3 springs won't fit as the spring perch diameter is different. I'm using the BMW performance front springs with matching bump stops.
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      07-01-2015, 08:55 PM   #6
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In regard to the OP's question, I guess it may not be necessary to change the springs. If you just want to reduce the body roll, a front stabiliser bar is probably a good idea. I just suggest not to go too far with a large size bar as it can contribute to understeer. Either of the E92 or E93 M3 front stabiliser bars are possible options.
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      07-01-2015, 09:57 PM   #7
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Have Swift make you a custom set of springs. Costs around $400 for a set of 4. Tell them ID/OD, spring height and preferred spring rate.
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      07-02-2015, 06:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Have Swift make you a custom set of springs. Costs around $400 for a set of 4. Tell them ID/OD, spring height and preferred spring rate.
I did not know they could do that! Sounds like the best approach to me.

I have FB/emailed Swift Springs support to confirm that they can do this for the E82 chassis. All it would take is a slight rework of their current E82/135i Spec-R application, if the price tag is reasonable. I have FB/emailed Bilstein as well, to confirm what the stiffest spring rate that the B8's can handle.
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-02-2015 at 07:03 AM..
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      07-02-2015, 06:54 AM   #9
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Harold confirmed the front springs on the 135i and the 1M/M3 are very different and can not be swapped. I was looking at installing the much better 1M/M3 front upper strut mounts. Would require replacing the entire front knuckle/strut. And I believe that would require a different offset front rim. I have not confirmed the change in front rim offset, or if a switch to front 1M/M3 brakes is required as well.

Can anyone confirm?
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      07-02-2015, 07:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Rear springs aren't too difficult to upgrade. I previously had BMW performance springs and swapped some rear coilover springs with higher rates. I'm using HPA height adjuster and some spring pad adapters to fit the 65mm ID springs.

Front springs are harder. E92 Non-M spring should be possible, though M3 springs won't fit as the spring perch diameter is different. I'm using the BMW performance front springs with matching bump stops.
I think the 201 lbs front spring are my real issue, leading to the body lean. Swift purposely designed the Spec-R with relatively low rate (soft) within the dampening limits of the crappy OE 1-serie shocks.

The highest rate Spec-R spring application is for the F82/M4 platform at 279 lbs/in and 726 lbs/in. I assume the electronic dampers (EDC system) can handle a little more spring rate ...
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-02-2015 at 07:52 AM..
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      07-02-2015, 07:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
In regard to the OP's question, I guess it may not be necessary to change the springs. If you just want to reduce the body roll, a front stabiliser bar is probably a good idea. I just suggest not to go too far with a large size bar as it can contribute to understeer. Either of the E92 or E93 M3 front stabiliser bars are possible options.
Thanks John.

I just called a few local auto parts recyclers, and found an E93/M3 FSB with bushings + brackets for $150CAD.

Looks like the FSB approach is worth trying, and easily reversible ...
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
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      07-02-2015, 08:10 AM   #12
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B14 PSS ship with 400/650 rates from memory (can look it up if need be in my book..), HPA, Orb etc all suggest 400/700 for an e8x dual duty car.

if the B8 has similar valving to the B14 PSS, you could potentially go up to those rates?
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      07-02-2015, 09:32 AM   #13
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Someone posted these previously. Not sure of the accuracy, but if they are correct, I will be testing out the Bilstein PSS. Hopefully it will fit without issues, since I did the 255/35/18 square conversion.

Stock

135i
Front: 120 lb/in
Rear : 350 lb/in

e90 ZSP or e92
Front: 145 lb/in
Rear: 460 lb/in

e90/e92 BMW Performance (Calculated given that the material of this spring is the same as the ZSP springs)
Front: 195 lb/in
Rear: 505 lb/in

M3
Front: 160 lb/in
Rear: 550 lb/in

Aftermarket

KW v1-v3 (non M3)
Front: 190-256 lb/in (progressive average)
Rear: 545-570 lb/in (progressive average)

KW Street Comfort
Front: 286 lb/in
Rear: 572 lb/in

KW Clubsport (non M3)
Front: 400 lb/in
Rear: 570 lb/in

M3 KW v3
Front: 285 lb/in
Rear: 630 lb/in

M3 KW Clubsport
Front: 508 lb/in
Rear: 800 lb/in

Bilstein PSS10
Front: 385 lb/in
Rear: 615 lb/in

Eibach Pro-kit
Front: 148 lb/in
Rear: 456 lb/in

Eibach Multi-Pro-R1
Front: 200 lb/in
Rear: 500 lb/in

Eibach Pro Street S
Front: 134 - 271 lb/in (Progressive)
Rear: 456 lb/in (Linear)

HKS Hypermax
Front: 448 lb/in
Rear: 504 lb/in

Tein Stech
Front: 191 lb/in
Rear: 593 lb/in

Tein Euro Damper System
Front: 280 lb/in
Rear: 392 lb/in

Tein ss-p
Front: 392 lb/in
Rear: 671 lb/in

JIC-Magic Cross
Front: 450 lb/in
Rear: 674 lb/in

TC Kline Coils
Front: 350 lb/in
Rear: 700 lb/in

HP Autowerks Coilover System
Front: Custom Tailored 300-500 lb/in (Contact HP Autowerks)
Rear: Custom Tailored 500-1000 lb/in (Contact HP Autowerks)
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      07-02-2015, 09:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Rum-bo View Post
Someone posted these previously...

Bilstein PSS10
Front: 385 lb/in
Rear: 615 lb/in
If the PSS10 also uses the B8 damper valving, this means that the B8's can handle almost twice the front spring rate I have now... 385 lbs/in versus 203 lbs/in of the Swift Spec-R ...


Edit: Looks like the PSS10 does not use the front B8 damper, like on the B12 kit.

PSS 10 C/O's: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3341

B12 Kit: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=4092

B8 Front: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3555
B8 Rear: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3553
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

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      07-02-2015, 10:02 AM   #15
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PSS Kit: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3940

Price wise, they're the same if not less than buying a separate spring, damper combo. They're also the same as the PSS10 minus damping adjustment.

Edit: What's the spring rate of the B12 Kitt? Not seeing it anywhere.
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      07-02-2015, 10:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Rum-bo View Post
PSS Kit: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3940

Price wise, they're the same if not less than buying a separate spring, damper combo. They're also the same as the PSS10 minus damping adjustment.
Only issue and why I did not choose them or other C/O's is because the height adjustment perch will limit the tire width you can stuff into your fender.

255/35R18 tires will not work in the front as the perch will be located right next to your sidewall ...
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-02-2015 at 10:11 AM..
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      07-02-2015, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Only issue and why I did not choose them is the height adjustment perch will limit your tire width. 255/35R18 tires will not work in the front as the perch will be located right next to your sidewall ...
Would spacers help? I'm running 12mm ones right now.
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      07-02-2015, 10:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Rum-bo View Post
Would spacers help? I'm running 12mm ones right now.
To use my 18x8.5 ET52 and 255/35R18's in the front, Im running 10mm spacers myself, and have about 4 mm of clearance to my b8 strut. On the fender side, even with -3.0* camber, I had to roll my fender lip and trim my bumper tab (easy DIY's by the way).
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 07-06-2015 at 12:02 PM..
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      07-02-2015, 10:17 AM   #19
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I'm going to have to get some measurements to see how much clearance (if any) I would have with those coils, since the springs rates are much higher.
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      07-02-2015, 01:56 PM   #20
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I just installed a e93 ARB yesterday and cars in today for alignment. It definately feels much much flatter than it did with the stocker with B12 pro kit installed. I think I might get the spec r springs later but for now it seems nice and flat.
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      07-03-2015, 09:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Rum-bo View Post
PSS Kit: http://www.bilsteincanada.com/produc...oducts_id=3940

Price wise, they're the same if not less than buying a separate spring, damper combo. They're also the same as the PSS10 minus damping adjustment.

Edit: What's the spring rate of the B12 Kitt? Not seeing it anywhere.
They were the same as the PSS9 without adjusters, unsure what changed in design when going to the PSS10 but from memory, they just give us the e9x kits.

Keep in mind that the B12 pro kit is matched and valved to our cars where the B14 PSS is not (according to part numbers). They may have very similar rates though...

For most TUV approved kits, the spring rates are captured in the certification documents.
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      07-03-2015, 12:06 PM   #22
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I talked to TC personally a while back and asked him about spring rates. His first question was if I'd addressed the RSFB, and when I said I had done the inserts, he said without hesitation 350 front, 600 rear.
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