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      03-23-2018, 08:24 AM   #67
mabrahams
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Originally Posted by berns View Post
Fragile Motorsports...
What did BimmerWorld suggest on more neg front camber? I'm maxed at -3* with M3 lower arms and Vorschlag plates. Didn't notch the strut towers.
I am pretty sure you can still add more neg. camber by going with custom offset bushings in your M3 arms. See Mark's STX thread. John Vitamvas created those for Mark and I also have a set that I need to install. Mark gained -.7 more; and John stated on mine he went a bit more aggressive.
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      03-23-2018, 09:04 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
I am pretty sure you can still add more neg. camber by going with custom offset bushings in your M3 arms. See Mark's STX thread. John Vitamvas created those for Mark and I also have a set that I need to install. Mark gained -.7 more; and John stated on mine he went a bit more aggressive.
At what point do you think braking performance starts to suffer from too much negative camber? And I guess it would probably depend on the track, but there must be an optimum number that trades off braking vs cornering to get the best lap times
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      03-23-2018, 11:17 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
At what point do you think braking performance starts to suffer from too much negative camber? And I guess it would probably depend on the track, but there must be an optimum number that trades off braking vs cornering to get the best lap times
Remember Mark and I are building our cars for a different discipline. And then I am sure we have our engineering experts that depending on what type of suspension design a car has then answers varies. Then our track junkies will say (like you did) it depends on the track. My answer is who the f-knows.
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      03-23-2018, 12:15 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
Remember Mark and I are building our cars for a different discipline. And then I am sure we have our engineering experts that depending on what type of suspension design a car has then answers varies. Then our track junkies will say (like you did) it depends on the track. My answer is who the f-knows.
From my experience in ST there is no amount of camber youíll get on the car legally that will cause braking issues.

I would do everything I could to get camber out of the car. If I was building one again Iíd target 4, but not sure it is possible.
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      03-23-2018, 12:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
At what point do you think braking performance starts to suffer from too much negative camber? And I guess it would probably depend on the track, but there must be an optimum number that trades off braking vs cornering to get the best lap times
And driving style, tires used, even down to the track if you're really tuning the car for every event.

MacStrut cars love camber up front.
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      03-23-2018, 01:25 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
From my experience in ST there is no amount of camber youíll get on the car legally that will cause braking issues.

I would do everything I could to get camber out of the car. If I was building one again Iíd target 4, but not sure it is possible.
Hey Ryan, if you are reading this; check our PM!
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      03-27-2018, 06:39 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
At what point do you think braking performance starts to suffer from too much negative camber? And I guess it would probably depend on the track, but there must be an optimum number that trades off braking vs cornering to get the best lap times
IMO, It doesn't affect it that much with these cars. I was running ~3.8-3.9 on my Z, and maybe running less would have upped brake performance a bit, What I gained in corners offset that a LOT. I am not saying braking was bad, in fact, I often think that was where I won most of my races. Cornering was good, but not superior, acceleration good but not superior, Brakes were fan F'ing tastic.
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      03-27-2018, 06:59 AM   #74
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So I got back from NCM yesterday, I will give a little update on how the car did. Saturday was a boating session. I ended up second in class, and third overall with a 2:50.xxx. I ran the all season tires I drove to the event on, which as it turned out were pretty stellar. They are Vogue signature tires, and I got a set of four for $160 after rebates from DTD. Turns out they are pretty flippin good in the rain. I missed the class win by 0.06 seconds. But honestly, I am driving a new car, in the rain, so I am not mad. In fact, the last session of the day was some of the most fun I have ever had in a car. five cars deep at over 100mph in the pouring rain, can't see more than 50 ft in front of you, Good stuff Maynard.

On to Sunday, Third in class, no idea of overall. Dryish, but cold. Very cold. I did go ahead with the R7's, and ended up with a 2:29.85, and first would have needed a 2:26 to win. So, definitely off the pace. Last year in the Z, it was also cold, I I ran in the 2:27 range in TTD. The car was solid, but there is work to be done. I think after adding more front camber, and doing a proper corner balance, it will be in much better shape. But again, new car, and honestly, for some reason, I SUCK at that track. It was the only track I didn't win at least one day last year. That said, it is an incredible place and a hoot to drive. I for sure had the car on two wheels a few times coming off curbs. One guy said it reminded him of old DTM videos. I know I two wheeled all the way to the bottom of the sink hole once. Good times

As far as car set-up, I feel like the front is good, maybe a bit soft (650lb springs, stock bar) and the rear feels great. (450 springs, no bar) Front needs more camber, and the rear may as well, but is much closer to being good than the front. I did an Mfactory torsen rear, and I'm glad I did. I thought about a clutch plate LSD, but I have been driving on a torsen for years, and really like how predictable they are. This one is spot on. great in high high speed stuff, and the ability to rotate if need be in low-mid speed corners. Great stability.

Brakes are unbelievable. It is again, probably going to be the strength of this car, much like they were on the Z. I close some pretty good size distances under braking. G-Loc brake pads (R-16 front and rear) with frozen rotors. I did do the 328i calipers front and rear, rebuilt some junkyard pieces, and BW stainless lines. Unbelievable power to these brakes, and fantastic controlled input. they are very smooth when brushing the brakes to scrub a little speed or flatten the car. Great stuff.

Last edited by bionicbelly; 03-27-2018 at 09:19 AM..
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      03-27-2018, 12:45 PM   #75
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NCM is a bitch though. Blind turn after blind turn. Turn 6 ate me for lunch.

The fastest I ran was a 2:48 (unofficial) and I cannot imagine running a 2:29. I was in a 135i, so you obviously would have smoked my time with a turbo'd car.

I had a good time, but for a 5 hour drive considering the learning curve on that track, I don't think I'll be back.

Last edited by ajsmithvmi; 03-27-2018 at 12:50 PM..
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      03-28-2018, 07:11 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsmithvmi View Post
NCM is a bitch though. Blind turn after blind turn. Turn 6 ate me for lunch.

The fastest I ran was a 2:48 (unofficial) and I cannot imagine running a 2:29. I was in a 135i, so you obviously would have smoked my time with a turbo'd car.

I had a good time, but for a 5 hour drive considering the learning curve on that track, I don't think I'll be back.

It is like 10 hours for me. It is an incredibly difficult track to learn. I still feel like my car would have been a couple seconds faster if I would have driven better.

If you are in St. Louis, are you going to be at the NASA event at gateway coming up? I will be there, for TT and instructing. MKilgore was supposed to stop by NCM for a ride, but I didn't see him. Offer is the same to you if you would like.
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      03-28-2018, 07:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
I am pretty sure you can still add more neg. camber by going with custom offset bushings in your M3 arms. See Mark's STX thread. John Vitamvas created those for Mark and I also have a set that I need to install. Mark gained -.7 more; and John stated on mine he went a bit more aggressive.
John made the first set for me on my OE arms. I had sold the prototype set to Mike Carpenter (guy who runs Kyle's old car).
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      03-28-2018, 05:57 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by bionicbelly View Post

If you are in St. Louis, are you going to be at the NASA event at gateway coming up? I will be there, for TT and instructing. MKilgore was supposed to stop by NCM for a ride, but I didn't see him. Offer is the same to you if you would like.
Yes, April 7-8 I will be there. Definitely interested in checking out your car!
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      03-29-2018, 06:55 AM   #79
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Yes, April 7-8 I will be there. Definitely interested in checking out your car!
Cool beans man! I will see you there!
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      03-29-2018, 01:39 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicbelly View Post
It is like 10 hours for me. It is an incredibly difficult track to learn. I still feel like my car would have been a couple seconds faster if I would have driven better.

If you are in St. Louis, are you going to be at the NASA event at gateway coming up? I will be there, for TT and instructing. MKilgore was supposed to stop by NCM for a ride, but I didn't see him. Offer is the same to you if you would like.
I did stop by but I only stayed for 1 TT session. Came by on Sunday since it was raining all day Saturday. Didn't stay too long since it was cold and windy. I stopped by your car but you weren't around. It looks good. It looked good on track too.
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      03-29-2018, 02:13 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
I did stop by but I only stayed for 1 TT session. Came by on Sunday since it was raining all day Saturday. Didn't stay too long since it was cold and windy. I stopped by your car but you weren't around. It looks good. It looked good on track too.
Nice! I am usually pretty busy with instructing and driving, so there isn't a lot of free time. Wish you could have stuck around a bit longer, it is a really cool track, even if I suck there. And, I wanted to check your car out. And yeah, that cold...
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      04-04-2018, 07:36 AM   #82
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Couple of shots from last weekend. Headed to Gateway on Friday to freeze my balls off again.

Also, an update on my camber situation. The BW race arm kit that I got , thinking that it would allow the adjustment needed to get to 3.5 degrees negative or more, absolutely do not do that. It is a pretty sore subject actually, and I honestly have not found BW to be that helpful in anything as of yet. I am going to get a set of Ground Control camber plates - at the recommendation of BW - to see if I get get anymore angle at the top of the strut.

I am still very glad I got the race arm kit, don't get me wrong, the front is solid as hell and razor sharp, I just wish it was a better thought out package, with more range of adjustment.
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Last edited by bionicbelly; 04-04-2018 at 08:05 AM..
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      04-04-2018, 06:50 PM   #83
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Yeah Iím really annoyed at the weather. To be honest I was half hoping they would reschedule the weekend. I donít feel like spending half of every session just getting my tires warm!

Last edited by ajsmithvmi; 04-04-2018 at 07:57 PM..
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      04-05-2018, 06:58 AM   #84
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Yeah Iím really annoyed at the weather. To be honest I was half hoping they would reschedule the weekend. I donít feel like spending half of every session just getting my tires warm!
I was hoping for that too, but it looks like they are going to go ahead. I am not sure if I am going to drive or not. I will for sure be there, but I am not going out on hoosiers in below freezing weather. Just not gonna happen.

FYI-I will be pulling in Friday night.

Edit: I just looked at the entry list, and it looks like TT5 will have enough cars to win some tires, so maybe I will be going out on hoosiers in below freezing weather.
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      04-10-2018, 07:09 AM   #85
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Newest update.

Went to gateway this weekend, and did not get to run. The car was having misfires, and I had no power at all. I ended up getting a couple of coils, and it had no effect, and spent the rest of the weekend watching/instructing. I popped in a couple of spark plugs on the way home, and it was much better, but still rough. The rest of the plugs are on the way, and I am hoping this solves the problem. Bright side, there were not five people, so the event didn't pay out anyway, but it would have been nice to see what I could have run. There will be an SCCA event there in a month or so, so I will hit that and see how it goes.

Camber wise, still talking to ground control, I am hoping they will be starting some plates for me today. Mid-O is in less than two weeks, and I definitely want to show well there.

I did get to meet Alex at gateway. Good dude, and a really nice car. Well done, and well thought out. It is going to be a bullet.
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      04-10-2018, 10:26 AM   #86
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Time to invest in a computer and/or OBD reader.

Any videos yet?
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      04-10-2018, 10:30 AM   #87
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Thanks, I was bummed about your misfires also. Gateway is a great track to see quick progress since you get so many repetitions.

I'm looking at the event at Heartland in May, very tempted as that track looks super fun. You guys gonna be there?
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      04-10-2018, 10:53 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by ajsmithvmi View Post
Thanks, I was bummed about your misfires also. Gateway is a great track to see quick progress since you get so many repetitions.

I'm looking at the event at Heartland in May, very tempted as that track looks super fun. You guys gonna be there?
If it is NASA or SCCA, yes. I think I am actually going to be there five times this summer. I might end up a resident of Kansas.
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