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      05-09-2018, 08:15 PM   #111
TheWatchGuy
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Originally Posted by bmwv View Post
This is probably true. But do u know any facts that show this is a good for us?
Depends what you consider good.

Is paying less in taxes for yourself good? Is the government staying in debt good? Etc.

For me personally, the few hundred a month more in my pocket is good
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      05-09-2018, 08:33 PM   #112
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I expect to pay less tax in 2018. I don't expect that to be good for the US. If the Reagan years taught us anything it is that "trickle-down" is a myth.
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      05-09-2018, 09:39 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
The figures really shouldn't be taken at all, which was my point, as the analysis immediately achieves ridiculousness.

Do we correct for recessions, drops in receipts and GDP?
Do we correct for wars?
Do we correct for external trade factors?
Do we correct for economic cycle?
etc etc etc.

As an example, by this debt/deficit logic, Reagan is a disaster and Clinton is a hero, yet we know the exact opposite is true: Reagan recovered the economy and won the Cold War while Clinton created the Great Recession!

Sure we can quibble that Reaganonomics didn't correct enough for his tax receipts ... BUT HE WON THE COLD WAR! So are we really going to ding him for that? That would be stupid.

So the reality is, we have to look at policy choices at the time and their effect down the road.

But if you insist on numbers:

Trump will add the second-highest dollar amount in history and almost as much in his first term as Obama did in two terms.
FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion
FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion
FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion
FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion

Barack Obama
FY 2017 - $672 billion
FY 2016 - $1.423 trillion
FY 2015 - $327 billion
FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion
FY 2013 - $672 billion
FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion
FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion
FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion
FY 2009 - $253 billion

Net-Net
: if you want to play the numbers comparison game like Trump is a hero you WILL lose, both on an absolute basis, historical basis, and yearly basis.

Further, assuming Trump can stay in office, there's going to be a recession and there's likely nothing any President can do to prevent that - maybe move it up or down a year or two, maybe lessen it, but it's going to happen. Personally I won't blame Trump for that (unless he starts a trade war).

What we can blame Trump for is a massive spending bill with little investment, and risking a trade war not to mention a few nuclear crises.

Maybe that will turn out great, or maybe not, time will tell.
You are still using incorrect numbers. You are using October 2009 numbers. THESE ARE INCORRECT. From the time Mr. Obama took office, the number is what I updated in your post. Further, the percentage of national debt increase is meaningless. If a president took office with $100 (that's one-hundred dollars) of national debt, and increased it to $100,000 of national debt, the increase would be 1000x what it was when he took office. But he only increased it by $99,900.00 -- not much.

Likewise, if Mr. Bush doubled the debt, and then Mr. Obama doubled it again, they BOTH doubled the debt. But that is meaningless, too, because their doublings are not equal. Mr. Obama's doubling was significantly larger than Mr. Bush's doubling was.

The TOTAL numbers (adjusted for inflation, obviously) are really all that matter. Percentages are just ways to cover up the actual numbers in play here. Mr. Obama took the national debt accumulated by ALL PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM COMBINED since the country starting carrying debt, and nearly doubled it. He accumulated the same debt, in just 8 years, as all presidents before him accumulated -- COMBINED.

The percentages don't matter. Only the total amount of the debt does. Oh, and your projections are just that...projections. Let's see how the actual numbers line up.

Cheers-mk
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
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      05-09-2018, 10:15 PM   #114
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So, bushy ran the country into the ground, obama led the recovery spending money to do, and the trumpster is adding to the debt and why?
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      05-09-2018, 10:41 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
Dont years 2018-2021 for Trump = 4.775 Trillion
obama 2009-2012 = 4.41trillion and 2013-2017 = 4.18Trillion Total 8.59 trillion?

Wouldnt that mean Trump is within 10% of Obama's 1st term and 15% of Obama's 2nd? And roughly 55% of Obamas 2 terms in Trumps 1 Term?
Sorry: that's the current budget projection as-is, which, of course, ignores the 99.9% probability that lawmakers extend the deal in 2020 given the alternative would be a $125 billion cut to discretionary funding. When the deal is made permanent, the 2027 deficit would increase to $2.1 trillion, which looks like this:

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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      05-09-2018, 10:43 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You are still using incorrect numbers. You are using October 2009 numbers. THESE ARE INCORRECT.
dude. ALL the numbers are incorrect!

are you really trying to argue that with "correct" numbers somehow Trump's budget is awesome?

Stop being silly. Trump is not paying off the debt.

Try it this way if you want:



or this way:



or this way:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 05-09-2018 at 10:49 PM..
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