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      04-20-2018, 06:00 PM   #1
UglyBuzzard
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North Korea suspends missile test and nuclear program

What say you?
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      04-20-2018, 06:08 PM   #2
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You may want to edit your title a bit, for now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ite/538073002/

Suspend the program is not mentioned...yet. Still, great progress.
Since when?
You'd think people on the left coast/HI would be jumping up and down.
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      04-20-2018, 06:26 PM   #3
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What say you?
I'm pretty sure the fat boy is a liar !
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      04-20-2018, 06:32 PM   #4
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Without giving them billions of dollars? If only Obama knew that was possible...
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      04-20-2018, 06:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
You may want to edit your title a bit, for now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ite/538073002/

Suspend the program is not mentioned...yet. Still, great progress.
Since when?
You'd think people on the left coast/HI would be jumping up and down.
I am confused, it's in the title of the article.
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      04-20-2018, 07:00 PM   #6
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I am confused, it's in the title of the article.
Thread title says suspended program. That has not happened yet. They suspended a launch site. But still!
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      04-20-2018, 07:03 PM   #7
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I'm cautiously optimistic, but haven't we been here before? 2005 they announced something similar I thought.
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      04-20-2018, 08:15 PM   #8
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What say you?
Pretty awesome if it works out. Would be nice to get them out of the dark ages, and stop being concerned about them.

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Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
Without giving them billions of dollars?
Since we never took, and kept, money from NK nearly 40 years ago for weapons we never delivered, we didn't really have a need to give anything back.
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      04-20-2018, 09:41 PM   #9
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Pretty awesome if it works out. Would be nice to get them out of the dark ages, and stop being concerned about them.



Since we never took, and kept, money from NK nearly 40 years ago for weapons we never delivered, we didn't really have a need to give anything back.
Let's just forget the 50 U.S. hostages that were held for a year between those events. Or all the other terror attacks committed by their proxies on Americans and their allies.
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      04-20-2018, 10:33 PM   #10
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Great if it happens or it means anything, but don't hold your breath.
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      04-20-2018, 10:53 PM   #11
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      04-21-2018, 12:27 PM   #12
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Let's just forget the 50 U.S. hostages that were held for a year between those events. Or all the other terror attacks committed by their proxies on Americans and their allies.
No, why would we? That was a thing, for sure, no disagreement. The whole thing stunk, I'm betting we'd agree on that too.
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      04-21-2018, 12:55 PM   #13
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      04-21-2018, 01:08 PM   #14
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Also, aren't they suspending the testing since their test site in the mountains collapsed and killed a few hundred people?
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      04-21-2018, 01:45 PM   #15
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Also, aren't they suspending the testing since their test site in the mountains collapsed and killed a few hundred people?
I'm in your camp here, but the world of diplomacy is nuts these days. So if trump tweeting makes a country that works with a needle pin leadership think again how they operate, all credit to Trump!


They have no issues with starving their people. 60 years of mind control means they'll starve and parade. I can give here a list of cheaper options than war but I'll never match the cost of a tweet.

Let's be optimistic.
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      04-21-2018, 01:49 PM   #16
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I agree that we shouldn't currently put much faith in this. But this wasn't just a random announcement, progress has been happening for a few months now. The Olympics, the talks with South Korea, the supposed upcoming meeting with the White House.
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      04-21-2018, 01:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
I agree that we shouldn't currently put much faith in this. But this wasn't just a random announcement, progress has been happening for a few months now. The Olympics, the talks with South Korea, the supposed upcoming meeting with the White House.
No, those were for show, as is abandoning the test site too.

The thing is, meeting the president of the USA is a big fucking thing for the leader of nk. For trump to facilitate that means the nk wins a huge pr war for their people. Anyone who thinks putting this two in a room means world peace is an idiot.

These things don't happen in a buble. This deal will happen only if the Iran deal keeps, and if Russia sees then benefitting them since all roads to nk goes through china, all roads to Iran and Syria goes through Moscow And we all are epically fucked if the negotiator doesn't understand these things are linked.
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      04-21-2018, 02:01 PM   #18
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This ain't that complicated - we've tried everything conventional, gotten concessions in the past, but none of it has worked.

Trump is trying the ole act-like-the-most-ridiculous-8th-grader-anybody-knows strategy. So far he's getting the same as in the past:

President Bill Clinton
Soon after Clinton took office in 1994, North Korea threatened to abandon its commitment to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty behind. North Korea refused an international inspection related to the treaty. This led the Clinton administration to seek to bring the nation back into the fold.

Former President Jimmy Carter was secretly sent to Pyongyang to pave the way for a diplomatic agreement.

Clinton’s administration successfully established a deal known as the Joint Framework Agreement which offered $4 billion worth of nuclear, energy, economic and diplomatic benefits in exchange for the halting of North Korea’s nuclear program in 1994. The deal also included two light-water nuclear reactors, which were believed to be more difficult to use to make weapons than Pyongyang’s plutonium reactor.

The International Atomic Energy Agency was set to oversee all of this and do routine inspections.

"This agreement will help achieve a longstanding and vital American objective -- an end to the threat of nuclear proliferation on the Korean Peninsula,” Clinton said at the time.
President George W. Bush
Bush famously named North Korea as one part of the three-part “axis of evil” with Iraq and Iran in his State of the Union speech as president in 2002.

“North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens,” he said.

Later that year, the country confirmed what Bush said by admitting it had been secretly conducting a nuclear-weapons program for several years and proceeded to withdraw from its agreement with the Clinton administration shortly thereafter.

By 2004, U.S. officials believed North Korea had developed between two and eight nuclear weapons.

“The Six-Party Talks” comprising China, North Korea, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the U.S. began in 2003 and continued over a number of years until 2009 under President Obama. In 2005, the group offered some energy and economic assistance if North Korea would give up its renewed efforts to build up its nuclear program, which Pyongyang tentatively agreed to.

But that plan didn’t really hold and North Korea said it had successfully completed a nuclear test in 2006. In 2007, an agreement was reached to send $400 million worth of fuel, food and other aid in exchange for North Korea shutting down its main nuclear reactor.

Just before leaving office, Bush sent a personal letter to leader Kim Jong Il asking him to uphold his end of the bargain.
President Barack Obama
Obama had to deal with a nuclear test by North Korea in mid-2009. The U.N. Security Council quickly adopted sanctions banning arms transfers to and from the country.

Obama sent an envoy to North Korea at the end of the year, asking leader Kim Jong Il to begin denuclearization talks, but his regime didn’t make any major moves toward pursuing them.

Some more progress was made in 2012 when new leader Kim Jong Un agreed to halt nuclear tests in exchange for food aid.

North Korea’s pursuit of nuclear weapons continued, however.

Obama’s administration put the ball in North Korea’s court by outlining conditions it required before diplomatic negotiations could occur, but Jong Un’s regime has maintained for years that its nuclear program is necessary for defense.

He went as far as to threaten the “military might” of the U.S. in 2014 as debates over true capabilities of the North continued.

Last September, after yet another nuclear test, Obama said the U.N. and members of the original “Six-Party Talks” would “vigorously implement” those resolutions and that there were “consequences” for North Korea’s actions.

Before Obama left office, the U.S. led the U.N. Security Council to imposed sanctions on North Korea in November meant to slash its coal exports by 60 percent.
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      04-21-2018, 02:05 PM   #19
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No, those were for show, as is abandoning the test site too.

The thing is, meeting the president of the USA is a big fucking thing for the leader of nk. For trump to facilitate that means the nk wins a huge pr war for their people. Anyone who thinks putting this two in a room means world peace is an idiot.

These things don't happen in a buble. This deal will happen only if the Iran deal keeps, and if Russia sees then benefitting them since all roads to nk goes through china, all roads to Iran and Syria goes through Moscow And we all are epically fucked if the negotiator doesn't understand these things are linked.
Dude, I thought Trump was going to play both the role of the President of the USA, AND negotiator when he meets with NK. He'll just bring a copy of The Art of the Deal with him and he should be good, no?

After all, he's a good negotiator. The best really.


But in all seriousness, I'm curious to see what may come out of this, if anything.
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      04-21-2018, 02:19 PM   #20
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Dude, I thought Trump was going to play both the role of the President of the USA, AND negotiator when he meets with NK. He'll just bring a copy of The Art of the Deal with him and he should be good, no?

After all, he's a good negotiator. The best really.


But in all seriousness, I'm curious to see what may come out of this, if anything.
Have you read the art of the deal? You're an accountant.

I studied economics. My professor I hated more than anyone had this line he ended his first semester with us.

" make the fucking deal. Make all of them! Every time! Just ask your accountant first, and his interns too. Then talk to legals. If you get an okay from all of them, you're going by the book too much, but if you don't, you'll be screwed."

The same 50 or so year old told us all that all our ideas sucked balls, and clearly not the ones in between our accountants legs.
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You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
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      04-21-2018, 02:28 PM   #21
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Have you read the art of the deal? You're an accountant.

I studied economics. My professor I hated more than anyone had this line he ended his first semester with us.

" make the fucking deal. Make all of them! Every time! Just ask your accountant first, and his interns too. Then talk to legals. If you get an okay from all of them, you're going by the book too much, but if you don't, you'll be screwed."

The same 50 or so year old told us all that all our ideas sucked balls, and clearly not the ones in between our accountants legs.

Nah, never read it. I can't really imagine there is anything earth shattering in it, so it just isn't high on my list. Have you?
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      04-21-2018, 02:33 PM   #22
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Nah, never read it. I can't really imagine there is anything earth shattering in it, so it just isn't high on my list. Have you?
I have and it goes against all I've been taught and there is no way the "writer" has made a fortune with those insights.

Dude I read anything and everything.
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You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
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Last edited by Lups; 04-21-2018 at 04:24 PM..
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