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      02-12-2011, 12:16 PM   #23
Dackelone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
FYI for anyone having to come over to the Grafenwoehr/Vilseck Area.

The Esso Gas station located across the Main Gate at Graf and the Esso located in Vilseck have both converted over adn ARE NOT offering Super Plus anymore. You either get Super 5% or Super E10.

Right now, if you want to fill up SuperPlus in this area, you will have to find a station that "might" still carry SuperPlus and flake it out of your pocket.

Ohh WoW! Why did your Esso do that? I know the Esso right outside of the front gate at Graf sold SuperPlus before. Nick did you asked the Esso's why they stopped selling SuperPlus? Can you still buy SuperPlus on base by you Nick?

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      02-13-2011, 02:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Ohh WoW! Why did your Esso do that? I know the Esso right outside of the front gate at Graf sold SuperPlus before. Nick did you asked the Esso's why they stopped selling SuperPlus? Can you still buy SuperPlus on base by you Nick?

Dackel
The Girl working there tried to avoid an answer at all costs and just said "all gas stations are doing it." I don't trust on base at all (sorry ) specially Vilseck since the people around there treat you like you owe them something and are very rude.

I will double check and let you know by the end of today since I have to go to Heidelberg and a a good friend
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      02-13-2011, 06:13 PM   #25
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HD Essos

There are 2-3 Essos in HD and the one I mainly go to on the main street between the PX and PHV, near the ADAC, it converted it's pumps but there was a whole bunch of us in a panic and we were told the pumps were changed but the tanks still had regular Super 95 in them. Yesterday I drove to Berlin and into the former DDR portion of Germany...when I got gas I found all pumps normal. Today I drove back and at Meunchberg it was 50/50..some pumps with E10, some with SuperPlus.
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      02-15-2011, 03:48 AM   #26
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New info that came out of Finland regarding E5 and E10 ethanol based fuel and what cars can use it..

http://p4_e10.s3.amazonaws.com/files...05_10_2010.pdf

I also spoke with Klaus Peter Becker of Schaefer Clubsport located in Kaiserslautern. He used to be the owner of Euler BMW back in the day and now has a very successful performance shop there. He stated to me that he does not recommend E10 in cars with the capability of high boost applications such as our cars but there is also an uncertainty with the fuel overall as no one knows how it will adversely affect those cars. I am going to be talking to BMW today and see what they tell me since in their manual they recommend the use of "Premium Gasoline".
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      02-15-2011, 09:40 AM   #27
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Also, another question.

Has anyone spoken with their dealer regarding the fuel issue? I called Pressath BMW and spoke with a lady and she stated that BMW released a message stating that E10 was good to use with the current BMW engines. I am planning to call another dealer and ask them the same question and see what info I can get. If anyone else could do the same in their area it would be helpful to see what all are saying.

Edit: I also spoke with someone whom I trust that works for one of the 2 BMW dealers that cater to Military personnel and he also stated to me that BMW did release a statement saying that E10 can be used in BMW cars with a build date of 2000 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ///M CARS. The drawback though is that there WILL BE decreased mileage as a result.
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Last edited by Elsabor67; 02-15-2011 at 11:10 AM.. Reason: New info.....
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      02-16-2011, 06:44 AM   #28
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Any where I can find it's said E10 is safe for BMW's minus M badged. Not so sure I'm willing to believe all this any more than the BMW suits professing a 15,000 mile oil change, or RFT's are what are required for our usspensions etc... It hasn't changed on Ramstein yet but I've seen the E10 stickers off base. Ramstein has been down to either 90 oct or 93 oct for a long while though.
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      02-16-2011, 04:21 PM   #29
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Exclamation News from AAFES........(long reading)

Sooooooo..........today I got to the point that I really had the bug to find out the deal regarding the E5/E10 fuel with Esso and AAFES. In a memo that is "sorta" being lightly circulated (my .02) I was reading and found a POC if anyone had questions regarding the whole fuel thing. The persons name is LT COL(AF) David Correll. He is the Deputy Commander Exchange-Europe/SWA Mainz-Kastel Station.

So I sent him an email as a concerned purchaser and also wondering what was going to happen with Superplus fuel on military installations and if there was going to be a message as to what installations would be carrying once the change goes in effect, which it is now. I also stated to him that around some installations like Graf/Vilseck, and one part of Heidelberg (B535 heading to Patton Bks) that those Esso Gas stations had already converted to E5/E10 gasoline and did no longer offer Superplus fuel. I also told him alot of people were concerned that they did not know what fuel would be offered on their installations.

I got a response back in less than 15 minutes. He stated to me that AAFES WILL continue to provide Superplus on all installations with exception of Bamberg/Hohenfels in the Bavaria Area (Graf/Vilseck/Katterbach/Illesheim/Schweinfurt) will continue to provide Superplus fuel. Also he stated that if any other installation that offered Superplus will still do. He also liked my point of maybe being able to provide to all consumers a notification Germany Wide as to what fuels will be available where so the public is aware. He was surprised though that the small Esso gas stations in my area eliminated Superplus. He passed the info about that to a Ms. Ruth Wagner, AAFES ESSO liaison.

She called me on the phone and I explained to her what they were offering at the Esso stations in this area. She told me that due to the new German law about the E10 all stations in Europe have to have it available. In 2 years the same law is going to change to the effect that Superplus will com back BUT, Super E5 will be eliminated. Also something I did not know was that supposedly, AAFES was already providing SuperE5 in the Super unleaded pumps on AAFES installations.

Ms. Wagner also reassured me that SuperPlus WILL STILL be offered on AAFES gas stations that carry it.

We'll see.............

Nick
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      02-16-2011, 05:00 PM   #30
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Thanks for the update Nick. From what I understand so far - is that all BMW's from 2000 M.Y can run up to E10. I will only buy SuperPlus 98 octane for my car though. Besides E10 is less powerfull 2/3rd less energy, increases the fuel consumption and has the potential for engine damage in old-er cars. Nein Danke!

Unoffically the reason why I hear BA does not have Super(E05) or SuperPlus is bc the DPW doesn't want to pay the 12K euros need to scrub and clean the old fuel tanks - and filter upgrade. This could have to do to teh fact that BA and SW and Baumholder are still not been declared endurring bases(BRAC). So that is why we are stuck with E10 only on base. Sucks.

Btw... I also hear that SW is considering getting rid of SUperPlus on their base. Mainly bc their tanks are so small - and they are always running oyt of Super grade. They have one (60K liter) tank that has three chambers: E10 Super, SuperPlus and Diesel. They can not get rid of deisel bc they would need to have that tank scrubbed and cleaned. So they are considering getting rid of the SuperPlus tank to hold more super. Its not a fact but that is what I heard.


Here is a good video from ZDF.de German channel 2. Sorry both videos are in German.




This video is from ADAC.de



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      02-23-2011, 02:40 AM   #31
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Well went to get gas this mornig on Ramstein and the new signs were up. E10 Super, Super with 5% Eth, and Super Plus (93 with 5% eth). The two Esso's close to Ramstein do not carry Superplus only the two different supers.
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      02-23-2011, 03:01 AM   #32
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FDM68 - SuperPlus (98) should still be ethanol free. 100% benzin.

The E10 Super - has 10% ethanol and Super (E05) has 5% ethanol.



Btw... I just came across this thread on the M3 forum...

EPA acts... More Ethanol to Be Allowed in Cars...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442450


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Last edited by Dackelone; 02-23-2011 at 03:19 AM..
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      02-23-2011, 03:34 AM   #33
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Yes that was what I was thinking but the tag on the pump said 98/93 5%eth. I'll have to take a pix when I get a chance. I didn't have a chance to ask the people/manager there as it was swamped...as usual.
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      02-23-2011, 03:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDM68 View Post
Yes that was what I was thinking but the tag on the pump said 98/93 5%eth. I'll have to take a pix when I get a chance. I didn't have a chance to ask the people/manager there as it was swamped...as usual.

Maybe at your base they are marking the octane in EU and US specs. German 98 octane is around 93 octane in the states.


Just remember:

E10 Super = 95 octane but has 10% ethanol
Super = 95 octane as well... but only 5% ethanol (E05)

SuperPlus = 98 octane and 100% benzin/gasoline!


SuperPlus is what you wanna run - espcially in a turbocharged engine.


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      02-23-2011, 04:16 AM   #35
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Yeah all the pumps had the euro and US oct spec but the one marked with the Euro 98/US93 also said in small pint underneath 5% ethanol. Hopefully this is a misrepresentation.
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      02-23-2011, 04:20 AM   #36
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^^this is why I buy my fuel off post at Esso. Because the German goverment is more strict with labels and fuel quality AND quanities. On base our stuff hardly ever gets tested. Not true for off post gas stations.
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      02-23-2011, 05:02 AM   #37
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Dakelone and elsabora. Thanks a lot for taking the time to post all if this info regarding the new fuels in our areas.

I have noticed over the past 2 years I ALWAYS get 40-50 miles more to the tank when I fill up off post at the Esso. Has anyone else noticed this. Kind of makes me wonder what kind of gas we are getting on post???

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      02-23-2011, 06:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m3to335i View Post
Dakelone and elsabora. Thanks a lot for taking the time to post all if this info regarding the new fuels in our areas.

I have noticed over the past 2 years I ALWAYS get 40-50 miles more to the tank when I fill up off post at the Esso. Has anyone else noticed this. Kind of makes me wonder what kind of gas we are getting on post???

Nick
I noticed the same Nick. I would get better mileage by pumping off base too. One thing I was told in K-town was that mostly the Esso trucks would make vogelweg and Ramstein their last stops and would mostly have the leftovers form everywhere else.. How true that is, I don't know.
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      02-23-2011, 03:30 PM   #39
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Tonight I bought fuel at my Esso in BA - just down the street from the base. I had a nice talk with the lady there. She said they will always sell Super (E05, 5% ethanol) and SuperPlus. But they are required to sell the E10 bc that is what the Bundes wants! The gasoline companies had to raise the prices of Super (E05) to the same costs are SuperPlus - otherwise most Germans would have no incentive to use the E10.

I was a little bit worried when I pulled up to the Esso tonight because the SuperPlus sign was out. But luckily the nice lady at Esso said it was only the light bulb that was out!

On base in Bamberg/Hohenfels - AAFES only has E10. All other US Bases you should be able to buy Super or SuperPlus.

My choice is to only run/buy SuperPlus off base at Esso. It is a PIA but it is what it is...
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      02-23-2011, 04:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
On base in Bamberg/Hohenfels - AAFES only has E10. All other US Bases you should be able to buy Super or SuperPlus.

My choice is to only run/buy SuperPlus off base at Esso. It is a PIA but it is what it is...
That was more or less what that LTC had told me. Hopefully they (Bundes) will realize the crap of gas E10 is. Watch the Germans do an uprizing like the people in the middle east

The nearest Esso with SuperPlus closest to me is in downtown Amberg........20 minutes away from me
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      02-24-2011, 03:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post

The nearest Esso with SuperPlus closest to me is in downtown Amberg........20 minutes away from me
Boy that sucks...sorry to hear that.

For what it's worth, I emailed BMW's main answering website address for E10 issues seeking an answer from them. The other day got a call from BMW here at my job after I sent the email to them...they said all BMWs from 2000 until now are safe to use E10. I told him I was worried about issues like the HPFP and other unknown issues, he stated that if I was using 98 octane now, I should continue. He never outright said not to use E10 but implied that I was better to stay with SuperPlus and not use E10.....
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      02-24-2011, 05:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
That was more or less what that LTC had told me. Hopefully they (Bundes) will realize the crap of gas E10 is. Watch the Germans do an uprizing like the people in the middle east
Germans will not protest... they only bitch to themselves! lol The Germs will do nothing(!) - they will just grumble and buy into this E10 crap. Then buy a new car two years from now - bc the old one is worn out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post

The nearest Esso with SuperPlus closest to me is in downtown Amberg........20 minutes away from me

Nick you can go to Google and input your village, once you have a map showing your village then enter "ESSO Tankstelle" into the search window and you will see where the nearest Esso is. Looks like some in Wieden, but that is almost as far as Amberg. Bayreuth has one too.

The main reason I would not use ANY fuel diluted down with ethanol is bc it will make LESS power. Even with just 10% ethanol you have 1/3 less energy. So that has got to impact the HP & TQ output. Then if you start to get some knock and... Done. Like I said I will always use SuperPlus - as long as I can find it sold at Esso.


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      02-24-2011, 04:09 PM   #43
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Hi Guys,

Today I stopped by my local BMW Zentrum and asked my guys there about E10. They were nice enough to give me a document that BMW has put out to all the German dealers.

Basically any BMW produced after 2000 M.Y. it is ok to run E10 in it. But the car will perform better with Super (E05) or with SuperPlus.

My guy there said I could try/test the E10 fuel - but most likely I would notice less performance and less fuel economy with E10. He said it is better to run SuperPlus - but that is up to the owner/driver. The car CAN run on E10. But in the end of our converstation... he said its a performance car and it is better to feed it SuperPlus. Just what I thought going in. So... I will stick with SuperPlus 98 in my car!


Here is the internal BMW document. I hope you can read it. (its in German!) Basically all the BMW models listed in the box bellow CAN NOT use E10 fuel and MUST run SuperPlus!!!




and here is a clickable link for a larger picture/file...






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      02-25-2011, 04:55 PM   #44
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Will the gas always say E10 underneath or somewhere near the pump so one doesnt accidentally pump that shit?
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