Installing rear subframe bushings without dropping the subframe

[Fidiman]

Originally Posted by robc1976

agreed, when you extract with a press it is a lot more force, I like heating them up. The M3 bushings almost bind your suspension in a way...my bushings where cracked after 6 months....the powerflex slow a bit more movement and install in minutes. Noticed a big difference in less vibration and left to right cornering. I also have the upgraded RE thrust arm bushings.

Thanks for the review rob ! Don't you fear about heating the components or the tank when you do the job ?

Originally Posted by Derk1127

Fidiman, have you looked at whiteline/nolathane bushings? They are two pieces with an aluminum sleeve so they go in easy without any pressing. Also you could use the weight of the car and a 1/2" drive socket with some heat to extract the bushings.

I haven't looked yet at these types of bushings. I only know (by name) Powerflex. Are they better quality ? Is there any supplier and/or distributor in Europe ?
Have you experimented them ? I only fear of they quality and of the stiffness of them : I couldn't stand having some issue or accident with them and I fear they don't due the job as well as M3 bushings or Powerflex Yellow/Black ...

[andrey_gta]

Rear subframebushings brand summary:
- OEM BMW M3/1M - much cheaper right now than they used to be. Offer OEM quality.
-Prothane/Whiteline/Nolathane are all one company bushings are split horizontally in the middle making install easier. They cost pretty cheap too, esp Nolathane. Stiffness is 75A i blive
-SuperPro from Australia are different design but also offer same horizontal split. Their brand is highly regarded for quality Stiffness is 80A i believe from my email with them.
-StrongFlex.eu from Poland are simmilar and may be cheaper for their 90A than Powerflex Black series. Ebay is a good source for their bushing. Offer 80A and 90A
-Powerflex offer good quality, often reviewed eveywhere. But seem to have the hard install process discussed here. Offer 75-80A for the Yellow/purple color. Black is 90-95A
-Other brands( Turner, AKG ) offer track focused hard plastic and aluminum bushings in the horizontal split version. The stiffness is above 95A

[Derk1127]

I have the nolathane and I've had no problems. The back end is much tighter with no negative side effects. I got mine through ozie spares for about half the price of whitelines.

[Fidiman]

Thank for the input guys ! I didn't have time for a while so, I can only answer now

I'm still hesitating with the black and the yellow Powerflex bushings but a friend of line who do a lot of track days at the Nürburgring advised me to mount the yellow stuff.

I did some researches on the board yesterday and here is what I found :
- m3 bushings are the equivalent of Powerflex black inserts + OEM bushings
- Powerflex yellow bushings are stiffer than black inserts + OEM bushings
- so Powerflex yellow might be stiffer than M3 bushings

[syclone2032]

installed the Powerflex black series this weekend, they are very stiff and very hard to install (the yellow bushings you can deform minimally with your hands, the black ones just laugh at you).
the instructions on their website sound easy, but in reality it just isn't. no chance to install them with a simple threaded rod, not even sure it will work with grade 8 rod, let alone with the subframe still in the car. we ended up wrestling the whole subframe to a hydraulic press and it took us about an hour (they tend to slip and slant) and a variety of "plungers" until they finally popped in.
cannot report on the performance yet, car is awaiting LSD and not running.

[The Dowager Countess]

Originally Posted by syclone2032

installed the Powerflex black series this weekend, they are very stiff and very hard to install (the yellow bushings you can deform minimally with your hands, the black ones just laugh at you).
the instructions on their website sound easy, but in reality it just isn't. no chance to install them with a simple threaded rod, not even sure it will work with grade 8 rod, let alone with the subframe still in the car. we ended up wrestling the whole subframe to a hydraulic press and it took us about an hour (they tend to slip and slant) and a variety of "plungers" until they finally popped in.
cannot report on the performance yet, car is awaiting LSD and not running.

Sounds you had a wonderful day. I can't wait to do this too. I'll play the sound of music soundtrack in the back ground and think about you.

Craig

[syclone2032]

Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess

Sounds you had a wonderful day. I can't wait to do this too. I'll play the sound of music soundtrack in the back ground and think about you.

Craig

nowhere to hide...

[Fidiman]

Haha, so regarding to that, I think I gonna order the Yellow one in a couple of days

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Fidiman

Haha, so regarding to that, I think I gonna order the Yellow one in a couple of days

yellow are perfectly fine....Will make a big difference. I have pushed this car to the limits and they are still good, no noise.

[syclone2032]

update: got the car on the road, rear subframe bushings and rear diff bushings Powerflex Black series, all other bushings (and i mean ALL of them) are "standard" Powerflex:
noise not an issue, in fact, i couldn't really tell a difference.
neither with comfort, doesn't feel overly harsh.
i still insist that fitting the black series subframe rear bushings cannot be done with the subframe in the car and proper tools... :-)
if the black series have any advantage over the standard ones i am not sure, probably overkill.

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by Fidiman

I did some researches on the board yesterday and here is what I found :
- m3 bushings are the equivalent of Powerflex black inserts + OEM bushings
- Powerflex yellow bushings are stiffer than black inserts + OEM bushings
- so Powerflex yellow might be stiffer than M3 bushings

i think Powerflex Black full bush are stiffer than OEM m3/1m- they are offered as upgrades on numerous websites to the 1m and maybe m3

Yellow full bushing i precieve to be equal OEM m3/1m bushings
Black Inserts, perhaps equal full yellow bushings

[Fidiman]

I'm reflecting now on AKG bushes (the black one of 95A). They seem to be easier to install than the Powerflex and seem to be stiffer too ! Could be a good alternative for more or less the same price couldn't it ?

So syclone2032, that's a pretty good new if the ride isn't harsher with 90A bushings ... !

What do you guy think about my new idea ?

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by Fidiman

I'm reflecting now on AKG bushes (the black one of 95A). They seem to be easier to install than the Powerflex and seem to be stiffer too ! Could be a good alternative for more or less the same price couldn't it ?

Yeah I agree with your observation, AKG makes nice thing, and the split bushing nature is easy to install. Notice that their bushings do not have the Metal center of other poly bushes

Strongflex.eu makes what essentially are Powerflex replicas(where one is 1 pair is a solid bushing) in 90A an 80A for much cheaper.

[Fidiman]

I'm trying to find alternatives to Powerflex, I think it will be a bit hard with the one-piece bushing, won't it ?

Ho ... I didn't saw there wasn't any metal center in the AKG bushings ... Do you think it matters ? The Strongflex bushings seems to be cheap bushings for me as they are low in price ...

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by Fidiman

I'm trying to find alternatives to Powerflex, I think it will be a bit hard with the one-piece bushing, won't it ?

Ho ... I didn't saw there wasn't any metal center in the AKG bushings ... Do you think it matters ? The Strongflex bushings seems to be cheap bushings for me as they are low in price ...

Try to search about AKG bushings on e90post Idnan member had them installed

[Fidiman]

I contacted @Idnan a said to me the AKG bushings were good bushings and quite easy to fit.

He told me that 75D bushings with the OEM diff bushings could be okay and won't be noisy.

I'm just a bit scared that 75D would be too stiff and brake or the subframe or the OEM bushings in the configuration I am ... Any inputs ?

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by Fidiman

I contacted @Idnan a said to me the AKG bushings were good bushings and quite easy to fit.

He told me that 75D bushings with the OEM diff bushings could be okay and won't be noisy.

I'm just a bit scared that 75D would be too stiff and brake or the subframe or the OEM bushings in the configuration I am ... Any inputs ?

e90 m3 guys have run solid aluminum & oem diff bushing without issues or noise. So its the solid/derlin Diff Bushings in their stories that adds most NVH

However HP Autowerks and turner and AKG all advise against. HP states that always for 1 series, not sure if same applies to e9x

[Fidiman]

Thanks for your input mate So I will follow the HPA, AKG and Turner advises : no derlin or too stiff bushings for my subframe !

[Fidiman]

So, a little up : I will order Powerflex Black bushing inserts today or tomorrow because of more facilities to mount and no taxes (cause on imported bushings I had a mount of fees).