Considering BBK

[CarJunkie]

Who is running a BBK? What do you use and how do you like it? It seems that most of them have a single "street" pad option and several track options. I am leaning toward the Stoptech setup since it would fit under my APEX ARC-8 18x9.5et22 wheels. Brembo 380mm will not clear.

Every time I swap pads on my son's RX8 for track days, I ask "why can't BMW calipers be this simple and easy??" and the thought of an easier swap allowing me to use my 1M more between track days is nice. I avoid swapping pads because it takes just long enough to be a deterrent if I have another track day coming up in a few weeks.

I really want to avoid the cost, but a BBK may be the best option. I am destroying front rotors using square setup r-comp tires and with about 375 rwbhp at the track. I may be able to improve the situation with some ducted cooling, but I am not sure that alone will be enough.

This is what I did to a NEW set of PFC V3 rotors over the course of 6 track days:

[Mogge94]

Many guys in Germany aren´t really happy with the stoptech.

You could check if the AP 5000-(R) would clear with your 18" wheels - pretty expensive but you shouldn´t have any worries anymore.

Or you could opt for the Brembo one size smaller, i guess its 365 iirc.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by Mogge94

Many guys in Germany aren´t really happy with the stoptech.

You could check if the AP 5000-(R) would clear with your 18" wheels - pretty expensive but you shouldn´t have any worries anymore.

Or you could opt for the Brembo one size smaller, i guess its 365 iirc.

It looks like the Essex AP racing set is 372mm which should fit. I could run front only, with Ferodo pads. DS2500 all around for street (including stock OEM rear calipers), and just swap the fronts to 1.11 for track days. That may be my most cost effective solution. My rears are holding up well. It is really the combination of r-compound tires and square setup making the front work too hard.

I think I need to do some ducting in the front regardless, but I doubt ducting alone will solve my rotor wrecking issues.

[ayao]

Essex has a template you can print out and stick in your wheel to make sure that the caliper you choose fits behind your particular wheel.

[BadakVT]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

It looks like the Essex AP racing set is 372mm which should fit. I could run front only, with Ferodo pads. DS2500 all around for street (including stock OEM rear calipers), and just swap the fronts to 1.11 for track days. That may be my most cost effective solution. My rears are holding up well. It is really the combination of r-compound tires and square setup making the front work too hard.

I think I need to do some ducting in the front regardless, but I doubt ducting alone will solve my rotor wrecking issues.

I'm running the Road AP Radical World with 370mm rotor up front with the exact wheel setup as yours. The 370/372mm discs would fit fine.

The Road AP Radical is bigger than the Competition AP Radical so the Competition caliper would fit no problem.

I'm also running the same pads: DS2500 all around for street and swap the front to DS1.11 for track.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by BadakVT

I'm running the Road AP Radical World with 370mm rotor up front with the exact wheel setup as yours. The 370/372mm discs would fit fine.

The Road AP Radical is bigger than the Competition AP Radical so the Competition caliper would fit no problem.

I'm also running the same pads: DS2500 all around for street and swap the front to DS1.11 for track.

That is awesome feedback, thanks!

[PRTSB1M]

Originally Posted by BadakVT

I'm running the Road AP Radical World with 370mm rotor up front with the exact wheel setup as yours. The 370/372mm discs would fit fine.

The Road AP Radical is bigger than the Competition AP Radical so the Competition caliper would fit no problem.

I'm also running the same pads: DS2500 all around for street and swap the front to DS1.11 for track.

Can you link us to an example of your setup for sale online?

[BadakVT]

Originally Posted by UN1CORM

Can you link us to an example of your setup for sale online?

Hi,

I bought my kit from Stillen. Not sure if Stillen is still selling the 370mm kit. I heard rumors that Essex has taken over for both Road and Competition AP kits.

Anyway, I would recommend you get the Competition Radical anyway because:
1) Same price as the Road Radical.
2) Road Radical is 2kg heavier on each side vs stock setup. With the 380mm rotor it’s probably even worse.
3) Road Radical rear kit is 380mm, probably not going to fit 18” track wheels.
4) Definitely more pad choices with the Competition Radical.

You can check my IG https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvx2-92gP16/?igshid=16tbn4kwbgxkb for more details on the Road Radical.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by BadakVT

Hi,

I bought my kit from Stillen. Not sure if Stillen is still selling the 370mm kit. I heard rumors that Essex has taken over for both Road and Competition AP kits.

Anyway, I would recommend you get the Competition Radical anyway because:
1) Same price as the Road Radical.
2) Road Radical is 2kg heavier on each side vs stock setup. With the 380mm rotor it’s probably even worse.
3) Road Radical rear kit is 380mm, probably not going to fit 18” track wheels.
4) Definitely more pad choices with the Competition Radical.

You can check my IG https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvx2-92gP16/?igshid=16tbn4kwbgxkb for more details on the Road Radical.

I am definitely leaning this way. Do you know if you have the RadiCal 9660 caliper or the 9668 caliper? How much horsepower do you have, and are your front rotors holding up?

[PRTSB1M]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I am definitely leaning this way. Do you know if you have the RadiCal 9660 caliper or the 9668 caliper? How much horsepower do you have, and are your front rotors holding up?

The 9668 look like a solid track setup with thicker pads. I'm currently leaning towards the 9660s myself, unless anyone has had bad experiences with them as a mixed (street/track) use setup?

I'm also considering the stillen kit since those calipers come with dust boots, and I'm not sure yet how much track time the car will actually see... too early to tell. Will probably start with ducts if MDORPHN chimes in saying they'll keep the stockers alive.

[CarJunkie]

Ah, I was wondering what the difference was. I think I will go with the lighter and cheaper set up. I am not doing endurance races.

I reached out separately to MDORPHN, and he is running an AP Racing BBK in addition to ducting....and also has a lot more HP from single turbo setup.

[CarJunkie]

Well, my OEM front rotors (0.4mm above minimum spec thickness) served me well as a fill-in on my final track day of the year, but definitely exhibited symptoms of heat warp toward the end of each session. I corded 3 of my 6 T1R's. I swapped out one after 5th session, then 2 more corded in final (7th) session. I literally used it all up!

I had a chance to talk to several people running Stoptech Trophy front only, Stoptech front and rear, Essex AP front only in their M3's and M4's, and have decided to go with Stoptech. I debated whether to do the rear, but alas my rear calipers are looking pretty bad when I swapped the pads out this morning. A lot of paint is gone, and there is rust starting to show on the outer prongs of the caliper. Front and rear it is.

I printed the templates and verified that the Stoptech ST40 and ST60 calipers clear my Apex Arc-8 18x9.5et22 track wheels. Good to go!

[PRTSB1M]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Well, my OEM front rotors (0.4mm above minimum spec thickness) served me well as a fill-in on my final track day of the year, but definitely exhibited symptoms of heat warp toward the end of each session. I corded 3 of my 6 T1R's. I swapped out one after 5th session, then 2 more corded in final (7th) session. I literally used it all up!

I had a chance to talk to several people running Stoptech Trophy front only, Stoptech front and rear, Essex AP front only in their M3's and M4's, and have decided to go with Stoptech. I debated whether to do the rear, but alas my rear calipers are looking pretty bad when I swapped the pads out this morning. A lot of paint is gone, and there is rust starting to show on the outer prongs of the caliper. Front and rear it is.

I printed the templates and verified that the Stoptech ST40 and ST60 calipers clear my Apex Arc-8 18x9.5et22 track wheels. Good to go!

What comments from fellow track rats convinced you to pick stoptech over AP? Are you timing your own tire changes yet?

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by UN1CORM

What comments from fellow track rats convinced you to pick stoptech over AP? Are you timing your own tire changes yet?

Everyone was very happy with them, including heavier cars with more horsepower. No one had any cooling ducting. None of the stoptech rotors showed any heat checking at all. Can't argue with the value for the price.

A tire change is easy. Swapping brake pads in the paddock with our stock calipers is a bitch, especially when hot. Ask me how I know. LOL.

[PRTSB1M]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Can't argue with the value for the price when you've just ordered an M2CS.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by UN1CORM

LOL, I love the words you added. That does actually factor in. It's hard for me to explain to my wife that I just ordered an $80,000 car, and also need to spend $10,000 on the 1M between now and next spring.

Between new tires, brake kit and brake pads, and finishing the oil cooler install with custom shroud for airflow, it all adds up.

[1&done]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

LOL, I love the words you added. That does actually factor in. It's hard for me to explain to my wife that I just ordered an $80,000 car, and also need to spend $10,000 on the 1M between now and next spring.

Between new tires, brake kit and brake pads, and finishing the oil cooler install with custom shroud for airflow, it all adds up.

The wife will understand, she married you and likely knows what she got herself into #gearheadsMatter

As far as BBKs for the M I'd strongly consider the PFC Z54 F and Z45 R. This kit was tested extensively on our cars, and works in harmony w/ the ABS system. -I've never used STs but my buddies complain of noise. I'm sure any kit will be better than OEM; maybconsider some cooling ducts as well

I run the factory Brembos on the P car and Alcon on the Atom. Porsche cup cars now come a PFC if that tells you anything. GL

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by 1&done

The wife will understand, she married you and likely knows what she got herself into #gearheadsMatter

As far as BBKs for the M I'd strongly consider the PFC Z54 F and Z45 R. This kit was tested extensively on our cars, and works in harmony w/ the ABS system. -I've never used STs but my buddies complain of noise. I'm sure any kit will be better than OEM; maybconsider some cooling ducts as well

I run the factory Brembos on the P car and Alcon on the Atom. Porsche cup cars now come a PFC if that tells you anything. GL

lol

I wouldn't go with PFC. I managed to ruin a set of PFC V3 two piece rotors in six track days, excessive heat checking, cracks to the edges, significant warpage and the snap/wave ring actually walked it self out of the friction ring/hub connection in one place on the driver side. Pretty scary stuff. PFC refused to warrantee that claiming that I was overheating them, and of course it doesn't matter to them that the backup OEM front rotors I replaced them with did not display any of the same kind of heat checking. The OEM fronts do develop a pulsation went hot, but the metallurgy is clearly better because they do not crack. To be clear, I recognize that I'm overheating them, but the frustrating thing is that they were a downgrade from the factory rotors because they actually failed. If PFC been willing to replace the friction rings, I would've added some cooling ducts and tried another set to see how it worked out. I definitely won't give them any more of my money.

Fortunately, I bought them through Harold at HP Autosport. He helped me in trying to get them covered, and when PFC refused, he offered to give me a pretty sweet deal on the ST trophy set, and also let me return a set of new rear rotors bought in January that I hadn't used yet. Can't say enough about his support!

I was at the track Friday and spent a lot of time walking around the Paddock looking at what people were using for brakes, and no one had any complaints about the stoptech setup. I think any aftermarket BBK, especially when running race pads, it's going to have some pad rattle. The included sport pads for street should be pretty quiet, certainly quieter than driving around with my PFC08's, LOL. I left them on since May because it's such a pain in the ass to change pads on the stock calipers, and every now and then I just felt like going for a drive.

[1&done]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

lol

I wouldn't go with PFC. I managed to ruin a set of PFC V3 two piece rotors in six track days, excessive heat checking, cracks to the edges, significant warpage and the snap/wave ring actually walked it self out of the friction ring/hub connection in one place on the driver side. Pretty scary stuff. PFC refused to warrantee that claiming that I was overheating them, and of course it doesn't matter to them that the backup OEM front rotors I replaced them with did not display any of the same kind of heat checking. The OEM fronts do develop a pulsation went hot, but the metallurgy is clearly better because they do not crack. To be clear, I recognize that I'm overheating them, but the frustrating thing is that they were a downgrade from the factory rotors because they actually failed. If PFC been willing to replace the friction rings, I would've added some cooling ducts and tried another set to see how it worked out. I definitely won't give them any more of my money.

Fortunately, I bought them through Harold at HP Autosport. He helped me in trying to get them covered, and when PFC refused, he offered to give me a pretty sweet deal on the ST trophy set, and also let me return a set of new rear rotors bought in January that I hadn't used yet. Can't say enough about his support!

I was at the track Friday and spent a lot of time walking around the Paddock looking at what people were using for brakes, and no one had any complaints about the stoptech setup. I think any aftermarket BBK, especially when running race pads, it's going to have some pad rattle. The included sport pads for street should be pretty quiet, certainly quieter than driving around with my PFC08's, LOL. I left them on since May because it's such a pain in the ass to change pads on the stock calipers, and every now and then I just felt like going for a drive.

Yea the 08s squeal like a pig. Sucks about your rotors...are these the stock replacements to be used w/ OEM calipers (direct drive) assume not the 372s for the z54 caliper. I honestly do not know much about them but do know the OEM rotors get fouled up w/ aggressive pads. Race teams use PFC and dominate in enduro. I have multiple sets of rotors that are straight and true. Have not had luck w/ OEM calipers, anything "hybrid" always falls short.

I've had PFC overnight me brackets straight to the track for free, Harold is pretty good but have yet to find a better company than PFC.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...Z54-378MM.html

Gobs or reviews out there but understand why you would want to change companies.

[CarJunkie]

That PFC kit is discontinued.

[CarJunkie]

In reading about the PFC kit, their goal was to increase relative bias to the rear. I don't think that will help a car using a square tire setup and r-comp tires. The extra grip up front really offloads the rear under braking, more so in the short wheelbase 1M than an M3. PFC claimed to be able to tell from photos of my wrecked rotors that the ABS system was overloading the front on my car. This is on the stock 360/350 rotor sizes.

A lot of people with square tire setups and modest power increase use a 372mm front rotor with stock rear. The Brembo and ST kits use the same size rear rotor (355) as PFC, but go bigger up front (380) than PFC and AP (372), which I think I will need. Fortunately, the ST kit fits.

I'll report back.

[PRTSB1M]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

In reading about the PFC kit, their goal was to increase relative bias to the rear. I don't think that will help a car using a square tire setup and r-comp tires. The extra grip up front really offloads the rear under braking, more so in the short wheelbase 1M than an M3. PFC claimed to be able to tell from photos of my wrecked rotors that the ABS system was overloading the front on my car. This is on the stock 360/350 rotor sizes.

A lot of people with square tire setups and modest power increase use a 372mm front rotor with stock rear. The Brembo and ST kits use the same size rear rotor (355) as PFC, but go bigger up front (380) than PFC and AP (372), which I think I will need. Fortunately, the ST kit fits.

I'll report back.

Were you lapping with DSC off or in MDM? I think to run a square setup on this car you have to turn all the nannies off (like having CBC coded off same as M3). I keep leaning towards just leaving the staggered setup even for HPDEs.