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      03-18-2015, 06:45 PM   #23
dcaron9999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
Both of these kits contain only the dust boots (despite the description on the ECS website). I have ordered both in the past.
That blows.

Looks like we need to reach out to Zeckenhausen like member FuelTech mentioned.

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      03-18-2015, 07:35 PM   #24
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Hopefully, this issue is with the poor material choice that RB spec'd for the oil pressure seals. It would be interesting to see how they developed this kit. Did they pressure test the caliper assembly at low as well as high temperatures? My other theory is that this could be a difference in the coefficient of expansion between the BMW caliper body material and the RB SS piston. I have ruled this out with the justification that the original BMW piston material is SS with a phenolic nose. Any thoughts?
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      03-18-2015, 11:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelTech View Post
Experienced the exact same issue with the RB SS piston and seal kit.The RB seal kit has issues at low temperatures. Everything was O.K until the temperature dropped to 0 degrees celsius (32 degrees F) then the front as well as the rear calipers began leaking. RB has no replacements and was not very helpful to provide an alternative source to obtain the parts. The problem is that the front kit from BMW, from what I have discovered, is only the dust seals. The rear kit is oil pressure seals and dust boots. Zechausen Racing has a Centric seal kit for the front & rear calipers. Dave was extremely helpful and went to great lengths to get these parts. Will update once I rebuild the calipers.
That would make sense. It got to -20 degrees F here in Iowa during the winter. Of course my car is stored in a unheated garage. In reference to the BMW kit, I went to the BMW dealership today and neither the front or rear kit had the seals. I had to order the repair kit through rock auto parts. They had the Centric and Carlson rebuild kits. I also saved the old seals from when I rebuilt the calipers originally, but prefer to use new ones.

I was hoping to get everything rebuilt this weekend, but looks like the parts won't be here in time now. My original plan was to work on my ZHP. It's due for an oil change. The both belts are starting to crack and the brakes and rotors front and rear need to be done. Guess it'll have to wait a few more weeks.

Last edited by jafo1701; 03-19-2015 at 01:22 AM..
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      03-18-2015, 11:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
May I ask how you removed the pistons?

When it all leaked, did you notice any leak at the brake line connection to the caliper?
Pistons were removed with compressed air. There has never been a leak at the brake line connection to the caliper. Not in the case with the first rebuild or in the 2nd case where the seals leaked.
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      03-19-2015, 04:27 PM   #27
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Here is RB's response to this problem:

"It can well be the OE caliper grooves have are made slightly wider than our own calipers, so the same seal although good on our calipers may leak on OE calipers under extremely cold weather.
If you have back order with us we will make sure the newly tooled seals will work with OE calipers before we ship the order. Meantime thank you for your understanding and patience."

"It seems only happened to those customers who track their 135i and live in very cold zones. We are taking steps to improve the tolerances for the new seals with an ETA about 6-8 weeks."
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      03-23-2015, 06:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Here is RB's response to this problem:

"It can well be the OE caliper grooves have are made slightly wider than our own calipers, so the same seal although good on our calipers may leak on OE calipers under extremely cold weather.
If you have back order with us we will make sure the newly tooled seals will work with OE calipers before we ship the order. Meantime thank you for your understanding and patience."

"It seems only happened to those customers who track their 135i and live in very cold zones. We are taking steps to improve the tolerances for the new seals with an ETA about 6-8 weeks."
Would have been good to know. Maybe a disclaimer if you live in a cold weather state. Hopefully the aftermarket ones I ordered hold up. I ended up getting the Carlson rebuild kit. All i needed were the seals, RB provided the new Dust boots.
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      03-29-2015, 08:05 PM   #29
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My issue with Racing Brakes' seals was not due to tracking. In my case, I did not even get a chance to really use the potential of the system. I believe their issue is poor R&D.

Anyway, Here is the update. I was able to rebuilt the front and rear calipers last weekend with the Centric/StopTech seal/dustboot kits from Zeckhausen. Front pads were trashed;they were completely soaked in brake fluid and needed replacement. The rears were salvageable. The rotors were scrubbed down using green Scotchbrite/brake cleaner and then washed with down with soapy Dawn dishwashing soap and blown dry with compressed air. Cleaned and roughed up the rear pads with 80 grit sandpaper. So far everything is OK. We have had a number of days in the -7 to -10 degree C (approx 20 to 14 degree F) and no leaks. Bedded the new pads and have a nice even blue grey deposit on the rotors. Hopefully this is it!
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      03-29-2015, 08:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelTech View Post
My issue with Racing Brakes' seals was not due to tracking. In my case, I did not even get a chance to really use the potential of the system. I believe their issue is poor R&D.

Anyway, Here is the update. I was able to rebuilt the front and rear calipers last weekend with the Centric/StopTech seal/dustboot kits from Zeckhausen. Front pads were trashed;they were completely soaked in brake fluid and needed replacement. The rears were salvageable. The rotors were scrubbed down using green Scotchbrite/brake cleaner and then washed with down with soapy Dawn dishwashing soap and blown dry with compressed air. Cleaned and roughed up the rear pads with 80 grit sandpaper. So far everything is OK. We have had a number of days in the -7 to -10 degree C (approx 20 to 14 degree F) and no leaks. Bedded the new pads and have a nice even blue grey deposit on the rotors. Hopefully this is it!
Great feedback. Thanks for sharing. Does zeckhausen have the links up on his site for the seals and boots? Are they resistant to heat? Is it still worth getting the piston set from RB? I live in Québec so also expose my 135i to freezing weather...
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      03-30-2015, 08:24 PM   #31
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If you navigate through the BMW link on the Zeckhausen home page it will lead you through to a choice of 128i or 135i. Follow through on to the 135i link and it leads you to the Centric/StopTech seal/dust boot kits and other StopTech products. It will list a kit for the front calipers (36mm, 32mm, 28mm) as well as the rears (42mm).

Not too sure about heat resistance for the Centric/StopTech oil pressure seals. My Racing Brake dust boots were in good condition so I used the Centric/StopTech oil pressure seals with the Racing Brake "Black" dust boots. I believe that the "Black" Racing Brake dust boots have the ability to resist additional heat. This may be a good question for the Racing Brake Tech.

It is up to you to decide on the SS pistons. They do make sense from an engineering materials perspective. On the other hand, it seems that StopTech produces products that are solid, and well engineered, track ready brake systems. If I am not mistaken, Turner Motorsport was running their products on their M3 cars.

If you are not going to be cooking your brakes, perhaps, the stock brakes with some additional cooling could be the answer.

I would suggest, from my experience, if you decide to go with the SS pistons, retain your original BMW seals to avoid the problems that I went through. I would be extremely cautious using the new and improved RB seals, unless they can demonstrate that they have looked at all aspects of the manufacturing process for the seal design. Ask a lot of questions.

In terms of customer service with Racing Brake, if you have a problem, you may be out in the cold. (Sorry for the pun)
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      03-30-2015, 09:17 PM   #32
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If set on running the RB pistons, using the Centric/Stoptech seals instead may be the way to go as FuelTech did.

According to a source who runs the RB's, the regular RB dust boots crack just like the stock boots at the track. Although not brake fluid compatible, the high temp dust boot option by RB appears to be the better choice if you don't want to deal with changing boots on a regular basis (assuming the leaking issue has been addressed).
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      03-30-2015, 09:52 PM   #33
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Looks like Centric has both seal kits and pistons for our calipers:

Name:  Centric Brake Caliper Parts.jpg
Views: 303
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http://www.centricparts.com/

I spoke to Centric and their pistons are aluminum (not steel and aluminum). Whether this is good or bad is open to debate. Their prices are good - $10 to $25 per piston.

Their caliper repair kits are both the seals and the dust boots.

Last edited by fe1rx; 03-31-2015 at 02:04 PM.. Reason: info from Centric
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      03-31-2015, 05:20 PM   #34
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^ Stainless steel supposedly reduces heat transfer over aluminum by a factor of 10.

Centric's are also not vented like RB's to further reduce heat transfer. Their's seem to be more of a replacement than an upgrade IMHO.
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      04-07-2015, 05:42 AM   #35
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On a side note since I lost almost all my brake fluid. I've heard the only place that can properly bleed the ABS system is the dealership. For those who have lost most or all of their brake fluid in the past. How did you rebleed your system? In the past when bleeding the brakes I've always done it with a motive power bleeder....of course its never run dry before.
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      04-07-2015, 01:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafo1701 View Post
On a side note since I lost almost all my brake fluid. I've heard the only place that can properly bleed the ABS system is the dealership. For those who have lost most or all of their brake fluid in the past. How did you rebleed your system? In the past when bleeding the brakes I've always done it with a motive power bleeder....of course its never run dry before.
Put it up on 4 jack stands and drive the car in gear. Do not turn off traction control or anything. The car will not go above 15 mph and you'll hear the abs pump cycle. (The car will sound really weird) Once you do like 5 "pulls" for approx 10-12 seconds each pull, rebleed the brakes in the proper bleeding order. I did the whole cycle 3 times. It worked for me and I have my pedal back no problem.
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      04-07-2015, 01:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty_miller View Post
Put it up on 4 jack stands and drive the car in gear. Do not turn off traction control or anything. The car will not go above 15 mph and you'll hear the abs pump cycle. (The car will sound really weird) Once you do like 5 "pulls" for approx 10-12 seconds each pull, rebleed the brakes in the proper bleeding order. I did the whole cycle 3 times. It worked for me and I have my pedal back no problem.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
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      04-17-2015, 02:44 PM   #38
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Update: RB stated the new pressure seals won't be ready anytime soon and has advised to source them elsewhere. Can't wait any longer as the brakes just got cooked at Laguna Seca with PFC-08 pads and Motul RBF600. Looks like Centric seals it is.

Or the OE ones, if anyone can get the part number. Member turbowolfe told me he was able to get new replacements from his BMW dealer but unfortunately misplaced the part #.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelTech View Post
...
My other theory is that this could be a difference in the coefficient of expansion between the BMW caliper body material and the RB SS piston. I have ruled this out with the justification that the original BMW piston material is SS with a phenolic nose. Any thoughts?
Below the phenolic nose, the BMW piston material is aluminum.

How are the Centric seals working with the RB pistons so far? FuelTech or OP?
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      04-17-2015, 05:05 PM   #39
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Official answer:

"We are working on improving seals but cannot promise delivery date until new seals are made, tested and approved which can take some time to complete, so it might be better for you to source the seals from dealer or elsewhere. Blue dust boots and SS pistons can be purchased separately and are available for immediate shipment" ...
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      04-17-2015, 05:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Update: RB stated the new pressure seals won't be ready anytime soon and has advised to source them elsewhere. Can't wait any longer as the brakes just got cooked at Laguna Seca with PFC-08 pads and Motul RBF600. Looks like Centric seals it is.

Or the OE ones, if anyone can get the part number. Member turbowolfe told me he was able to get new replacements from his BMW dealer but unfortunately misplaced the part #.



Below the phenolic nose, the BMW piston material is aluminum.

How are the Centric seals working with the RB pistons so far? FuelTech or OP?
I got the seals from Carlson. All Calipers have been rebuilt but I haven't rebled the system yet. Will do it this weekend and report back to see if the Seals hold up. I did keep the BMW Seals also, and they look to be of equal quality to the original BMW ones, so only time will tell. I'll update as soon as everything is back up.
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      04-20-2015, 08:56 PM   #41
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So far the Centric/Stoptech seals seem to be OK. No weeping. Brake is a touch soft. Double checked all the lines and the calipers. I think I have a small amount of air in the system. It is a real pain to bleed the brakes. Similar to jafo1701, I may need to have BMW bleed the system. The 3 series Bentley manual makes a note of this.
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      04-20-2015, 09:44 PM   #42
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Thanks for the updates.
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      04-21-2015, 10:39 PM   #43
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I got the system bled this weekend. I followed the procedure as mentioned above with the car on jack stands. Got a ton of warning lights with ABS failuire as well as passenger seat belt failure. Bled the system 3 times to make sure I got all the air out. As soon as I got the wheels back on, the car on the ground and moving, the warning lights reset. The pedal seemed initially a bit soft. I worked my way up on braking similar to a brake bedding procedure with track pads and the pedal firmed up. Also tested out the ABS and that tested out ok. No leaks in the seals either, but winter is a long ways away too. Thats is when the last seals leaked. So far so good though. It's good to have the car operational again. Perfect timing too, because my limited slip diff just got shipped.

Last edited by jafo1701; 04-21-2015 at 10:48 PM..
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      04-29-2015, 10:08 AM   #44
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Hi guys.

A track buddy of mine did the RB brake upgrade on his 135i last year, and ended up with leaking seals as well at the end of the winter. We both track our 135i's, and share the same track every now and then.

He's looking at doing the seals, and perhaps boots again, and Im looking at a full caliper rebuilt (pistons, seals, dust boots). Before we place our respective orders for the parts, and attack this project together, I wanted to touch base with you guys on a few concerns:

#1 - Should I avoid RB stainless steel "vented" pistons all together, since no one can yet confirmed if the pistons or the seals are the problem (survive freezing weather we get here in Canada during the winter)

#2 - Are the Centric aluminimum pistons a better choice, even if they do not dissipate heat as well? (I use brake ducting to cool my rotors, and Ti heat shields).

I may at least order the high temp dust boots from RB, but Im not "sold" yet on their "fancy" vented piston design, and seals are obviously a "no-go" for a while...

Im interested in fe1rx, FuelTech, and Jafo1701's experiences. How's everything holding up for you guys? Any track use, and exposure to weather extremes?
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 04-29-2015 at 10:20 AM..
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