1M vs M3 divide...is it real?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Sauce

Dude, your going way overboard. Your generating a huge argument and calling someone a dbag with no solid premise. Your reading into what he said and putting words in his mouth.

I never called him a dbag. I put a disclaimer...apparently nobody understands you in the general sense (not related to a specific person but in a general hypothetical sense) is different than you.

My whole point this thread was that divides are stupid and to not be the dbag that judges based on nothing. And yes 1M vs M3 is jealousy and contempt based on nothing. Everyone has different wants in a car and the 1M and M3 are built for different people and are basically the pinnacle in each class.

So read before you judge and understand context before anything else.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I never called him a dbag. I put a disclaimer...apparently nobody understands you in the general sense (not related to a specific person but in a general hypothetical sense) is different than you.

My whole point this thread was that divides are stupid and to not be the dbag that judges based on nothing. And yes 1M vs M3 is jealousy and contempt based on nothing. Everyone has different wants in a car and the 1M and M3 are built for different people and are basically the pinnacle in each class.

So read before you judge and understand context before anything else.

That disclaimer is ridiculous, it's like saying "No offense" or "I don't want to be rude". Sure you can say that, but it doesn't make the words any different. I understand everything you are saying and I clearly understand torque demon better than you, but I digress as 1seriesstud is right: not this sh*t again.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Sauce

That disclaimer is ridiculous, it's like saying "No offense" or "I don't want to be rude". Sure you can say that, but it doesn't make the words any different. I understand everything you are saying and I clearly understand torque demon better than you, but I digress as 1seriesstud is right: not this sh*t again.

???

No, because im not talking about a single person. Im saying dont be the douchebag that judges based on nothing substantial (like the differences between a 1M and M3). Thats a hypothetical situation, not something based on anything personal - so what youre saying in your example is something entirely different.

I dont understand why everyone is taking this as a personal attack...or even in a negative sense.

[armyav8tor]

The only thing I really can't get past about the 1 series is the looks. Would I ever say that in front of an owner in real life, of course not because that would be rude and looks are subjective. I really believe that BMW made the 1 series ugly on purpose, just look at the new one. It gets your foot in the door but you pay a price. If you can get past the looks then the 1M is an awesome car. It has a lot of M3 parts in it after all. I have no idea how it compares against a M3 but I don't really care to find out because I just can't see myself in that car. As BrokenVert says, different strokes for different folks.

[nachob]

Did not mean for this to get so crazy, sorry guys. I was just curious if anyone had an insight into the strong reaction. You couldn't pay me enough statements are usually reserved for stuff like unburying the dead or defending known child murderers not for driving a 1M. I guess being a tech person I take statements at face value when maybe they are just hyperbole?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The only thing I really can't get past about the 1 series is the looks. Would I ever say that in front of an owner in real life, of course not because that would be rude and looks are subjective. I really believe that BMW made the 1 series ugly on purpose, just look at the new one. It gets your foot in the door but you pay a price. If you can get past the looks then the 1M is an awesome car. It has a lot of M3 parts in it after all. I have no idea how it compares against a M3 but I don't really care to find out because I just can't see myself in that car. As BrokenVert says, different strokes for different folks.

I understand that. Its a highly controversial design. Its a love it or hate it deal. I personally love the way my car looks, but there are times when I walk up to it from a funky angle and look at it and say..."damn thats an ugly bastard of a car"

But to be fair I also do that with the 3 series at times "man thats a boring angle"

and I do it with my girlfriend of 3 years...but dont tell her that!

But one of the good features of the controversy is that its polarizing. If you love the looks (as many of us do) youll love it forever. Im not bored of its looks after nearly four years...and that says something - I think cars start to age very quickly.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

But one of the good features of the controversy is that its polarizing. If you love the looks (as many of us do) you'll love it forever.

Most controversies regarding new designs only polarize at the beginning. As time moves on, people get used to the new look (however, sometimes it can take more time than expected, remember the radical Bangle designs). And "loving" the look right from the start might be promising for your future view, but ain't no guarantee that you can't get "bored" of it after some time. The dynamics of life, you know. Some designs are timeless though, some don't and never will. Quite likely some statements in this thread, or even the derogatory part of the "M3 versus 1M" discussion will be considered to be rather immature, when read again in a few years.

The 1M is still a recent breed, unlike the M3, though they are blood brothers. Let views and experiences ripe for a few years. Time will tell whether the 1M ranks as a premier grand cru classé A. Raving reviews and the fact that former M3 owners got a 1M and appreciate this pocket-rocket, are tell-tale signs that the 1M might be an instant future classic. Again, time will tell.

In the meantime, keep cool and enjoy what you got.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The only thing I really can't get past about the 1 series is the looks. Would I ever say that in front of an owner in real life, of course not because that would be rude and looks are subjective. I really believe that BMW made the 1 series ugly on purpose, just look at the new one. It gets your foot in the door but you pay a price. If you can get past the looks then the 1M is an awesome car. It has a lot of M3 parts in it after all. I have no idea how it compares against a M3 but I don't really care to find out because I just can't see myself in that car.

I think this is the type of response the OP was looking for - not the discussion that seems to be occurring.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The only thing I really can't get past about the 1 series is the looks. Would I ever say that in front of an owner in real life, of course not because that would be rude and looks are subjective. I really believe that BMW made the 1 series ugly on purpose, just look at the new one. It gets your foot in the door but you pay a price. If you can get past the looks then the 1M is an awesome car. It has a lot of M3 parts in it after all. I have no idea how it compares against a M3 but I don't really care to find out because I just can't see myself in that car. As BrokenVert says, different strokes for different folks.

This is a good and sincere post and I would totally agree with you if I wouldn't remember very clearly how the E9O was bashed when it first came out in 2005 "because of" its design, I remember this very clearly because I owned one example for some years and now I own a 1M, so do I miss at least the "beauty" of my E90? Not really, maybe just the Le Mans Blue color. And if you were talking about the incredible ugliness of the F20 1 series, that is also correct but you have to pay me to get inside a F30 3 series as well, it is the second ugliest car in BMW line up now just after the F20. I mean you are probably right about the "intention" of the maker, to keep the lower rank car less attractive and so but are they really succeeding in making their higher end cars attractive? I mean what exactly is that much better in a new 3 or 5 series? Rear seat entertainment systems, smell of the leather? I still struggle to get this.

Last year I was seriously considering the E92 M3 and it was coming to me for a lower price than a 1M at that time (I am a diplomat, gives me some good deals), the moment that they told me I can buy the 1M I got the 1M without blinking an eye and I waited longer etc., it has everything and I mean that, everything I wanted from an E9X M3 anyway and it just has a uniqueness and character that the M3 naturally lacks because of its production numbers, its size, its broader target client profile (whatever it is), global image and long history behind Not having all these just provided the 1M with the rarity, not only in quantity but also in being more special.

I am someone who sincerely believes that the E46 M3 CSL was the best M3 and it still is, so maybe that's another reason that I just couldn't see myself in a E9X M3!

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The only thing I really can't get past about the 1 series is the looks. Would I ever say that in front of an owner in real life, of course not because that would be rude and looks are subjective. I really believe that BMW made the 1 series ugly on purpose, just look at the new one. It gets your foot in the door but you pay a price. If you can get past the looks then the 1M is an awesome car. It has a lot of M3 parts in it after all. I have no idea how it compares against a M3 but I don't really care to find out because I just can't see myself in that car. As BrokenVert says, different strokes for different folks.

I totally agree with you about the standard 1. In fact, I talked my brother out of trading in his E46 330ci for a 135 because I thought it was "fugly".

I still haven't heard the end of it since he joined me for my 1M PCD back in December!

I love how the 1M looks and have gotten to appreciate the regular 1 but I would not buy the 135 ( new or old)

Just my $0.02

[Jet Mech]

Originally Posted by nachob

Please, mature replies only, I am truly looking for understanding as to what could cause this guy to say something like that in front of so several people???

Well the "mature replies" idea was really being optimistic i think. LOL

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by nachob

Please, mature replies only, I am truly looking for understanding as to what could cause this guy to say something like that in front of so several people???

Ignoring the posts that went sideways (amazing how that seems to happen again and again with the same people)...

There are a few types of "car guys":

On the one hand you've got guys who just like cars, and tend to view them more as toys or tools, with both strengths and weaknesses, like all things. Think Jay Leno.

On the other extreme you've got people that essentially view their car as an extension of themselves, whether they know it or not. Society puts a lot of advertising money into insuring that your car choice says a lot about you, arguably more than your cloths or your haircut. People choose cars based partly (largely) on the statement about ourselves we want to make to the world, and advertisers do their utmost to plant their preferred statements deep into our subconscious (I am the ultimate driving machine, by the way).

Given this intertwining of our cars and self-image, it shouldn't be surprising that reviews/ comparisons/ (insults) get taken personally. So if your car represents you, and someone (Evo magazine, etc) suggests that a 1M might be a younger, better version of you (the M3) at a fraction of the price, the statement you thought you were making to the world (I'm the ultimate driving machine) suddenly becomes I'm the chump that overpaid for the loosing, duller car. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it...

Given this you can see how some people have an emotional reaction that has very little to do with reality. Your guy wouldn't be caught dead in the 1M, despite the fact that of all cars on the road it is the closest to the car he currently drives (brand, equipment, styling, price, performance, etc), and if they had released it a couple years earlier and called it M3 he'd more than likely be driving one now. Which doesn't help matters as far as the ego is concerned.

I've had a few nice thumbs up from M3 drivers, so my impression, at least around here, is that there is mutual respect more than defensiveness. And I do envy that S65 engine from time to time, though I wouldn't trade the chassis for it.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

On the one hand you've got guys who just like cars, and tend to view them more as toys or tools, with both strengths and weaknesses, like all things. Think Jay Leno.

Even Jay has a "type" he doesnt just like everything

[dean_g]

Anyone else feel like BrokenVert is always giving his .02cents where they are unwanted and no one really gives a damn what he says?

Listen, you don't own a 1M and you have NO interest in owning one. So go back to your section of the forums (135) and have a nice day.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by dean_g

Anyone else feel like BrokenVert is always giving his .02cents where they are unwanted and no one really gives a damn what he says?

Listen, you don't own a 1M and you have NO interest in owning one. So go back to your section of the forums (135) and have a nice day.

[Dan Parker]

The issue only exists if people keep talking about it. OK, by writing this I am guilty myself but I'd rather speak up then read the amount of 1M vs M3 hate debates out there. I'm just glad we have such an amazing number of choices in cars these days. They all have their attributes and downsides but every car has buyers who see the value in their price.
This situation isn't alone. I recently bought a golf R as a daily driver. An R32 owner drove it the other day. When he got out he said, "I really wanted to hate this car but I can't." Sound familiar? What really matters is that a car puts a smile on your face when you drive it and when you write that check each month. Just my .02. If this thread reaches 100 posts I'm pulling the N54 out of my 1M and dropping an S65 in.

Let the 1M and M3 owners hold hands in perfect harmony.

[Aussie_in_London]

Originally Posted by Dan Parker

Just my .02. If this thread reaches 100 posts I'm pulling the N54 out of my 1M and dropping an S65 in.

Well then, how can I not post on this

What you don't know you dislike!

What you don't have you hate!

[James T. Kirk]

The only salient point about the 1M that I've ever heard is that the N54 wasn't borne out of the M-Division. There is a snobbery about where in the company an ///M engine should come from. It's nonsense, of course.

The 1M is very threatening to M3 owners as it harkens back to the E30 M3. I've had a couple M3s and have spent a lot of time on M3Post.com. Whether they all can admit it or not, M3 owners hate the fact that the M3 keeps getting bigger, heavier and more complex with every generation.

You have no idea what relief it was to get rid of my E90 M3 with its infinite setup selections and boring DCT. Yes, the tech was quick, but it was boring nonetheless.

Pile on top of that the injury of the next generation M3 coupe changing its name to M4, plus losing the V8... let's just say nerves are frayed over at the M3 camp and some folks are going to be very sensitive all around.

Interestingly, I get more frequent thumbs-up from E36/E46 M3 owners than I do from E9X owners. I suppose it has something to do with the kind of driver that would appreciate an older model BMW as more of an aficionado of all things ///M.
.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by dean_g

Anyone else feel like BrokenVert is always giving his .02cents where they are unwanted and no one really gives a damn what he says?

Listen, you don't own a 1M and you have NO interest in owning one. So go back to your section of the forums (135) and have a nice day.

You guys have a funny way of showing apathy.

And who says I dont have interest in owning a 1M? Id love to have one in my garage personally, i've wanted one since 2008 when I, along with many other people begged Scott and their many other BMW execs. At the NYS auto show two years ago the M division guys were questioned regarding an M version of the 1 series, and some recent spy shots that had emerged of a 135 with tacked on fender flares. Im the guy that asked those questions and ive been one of the most excited people for the 1M since the 135 was slated to be the M version.

So to reiterate, I still really want a 1M and I never really post in inappropriate places. Most of the time its on an opinion thread for adding parts or wheels.

I really just dont understand your animosity towards me.


Hmm and promoting segregation when our cars share many owners and parts...no divide there at all for no good reason.
Also just to be clear. That last sentence was to prove something proving something to the OP, have a good day nachob - you understand what I mean by this.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I really just dont understand your animosity towards me.

It might have something to do with the fact that almost 1/4 of the posts in this thread are yours, and every one of them is argumentative.

[tkbr0wn]

And I didn't have a single post in the whole thread!!! But it was funny when I read the first post that referred to inferiority complex and just knew AutoVert would chime in and BAM, the very next post was his.

As soon as he said...

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

In order for you to think that M3 owners have an inferiority complex you in turn must have a superiority complex.

I realized that I have been arguing with someone who is incapable of logical thinking. This will make it easier going forward...

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

It might have something to do with the fact that almost 1/4 of the posts in this thread are yours, and every one of them is argumentative.

???

Most of this thread has been me saying what are you talking about when people have become argumentative to me.

I still dont know what I said thats been so damned inflammatory.

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

And I didn't have a single post in the whole thread!!! But it was funny when I read the first post that referred to inferiority complex and just knew AutoVert would chime in and BAM, the very next post was his.

See the divide OP? Hes judging me based on what car I drive.


Some great examples for the OP in this thread.