Installed charge pipe with Tial BOV, getting compresor surge

[BigRussia]

I installed my ER Chargepipe with pre-installed Tial Q bov today. I hooked up the BOV's vacuum line to the same nipple on the intake manifold the stock DV's line went to. I go for a drive and under low boost (since my car is still warming up) I noticed the BOV is very quiet almost quieter than my stock DV with $2 bov mod. When my car warms up and I hit high boost I hear compressor surge (that butterfly turbo flutter noise) and THEN I hear the Tial vent...like a split second later. When this this happens I also noticed my boost surge, my boost gauge shoots up before coming down once the Tial vents.

It seems the Tial is venting too slow and Im getting compressor surge and boost surge when I let off. Strangely I only hear the compressor surge in 3rd gear, not in 1st or 2nd even though i hit the same boost but it still vents late. This Tial is supposed to be for a N54 and thus have the right spring and I'm using the Tial supplied vacuum line to the nipple that the instructions told me to put it to.

I went with Tial since it seemed to be the most popular choice for N54 users, has anyone had this issue with their Tial BOVs?

[vtl]

Lot of people have this issue. The diameter of the nipple on the intake manifold is too narrow to vent the Tial quickly enough. You have to drill and tap the plastic intake manifold for a larger fitting. Can use a brass 1/4" barb and that should flow enough vacuum to activate your Tial. Put in a new larger diameter hose to match it and it shouldn't flutter

Do a search for "n54 intake manifold nipple" on google and you'll see a few threads where they've done this mod. Seal up the threads with JB weld to prevent leaking. I am actually doing this mod for a friend on the weekend, getting really bad fluttering.

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by vtl

Lot of people have this issue. The diameter of the nipple on the intake manifold is too narrow to vent the Tial quickly enough. You have to drill and tap the plastic intake manifold for a larger fitting. Can use a brass 1/4" barb and that should flow enough vacuum to activate your Tial. Put in a new larger diameter hose to match it and it shouldn't flutter

Do a search for "n54 intake manifold nipple" on google and you'll see a few threads where they've done this mod. Seal up the threads with JB weld to prevent leaking. I am actually doing this mod for a friend on the weekend, getting really bad fluttering.

Yeah after I read around some more I saw threads suggesting this actually. Pretty disappointed that even though the Tial supposedly comes with a spring that is for our cars we have to do something like this. Strangely I didn't see this issue when I was researching BOVs, kinda regretting not going with the HKS SSQV (had it on a old NA-T car and it never needed adjusting). Seems like the only two options for this issue are doing the 1/4 tap as you suggested or taking apart the BOV and installing the lighter 10lb unpainted spring (which is like another $30 ). Could also be possible my car isn't pulling full vacuum and I could have a leak but I'm doubtful as I don't have any codes, is there a easy way to check vacuum?

Right now I'm just hoping that with some more driving the BOV 'breaks in', since some people said the Tial would be siezed or the spring would be sticking after sitting on the shelf for awhile so maybe my spring just needs to get un-stuck.... I hope I'm not kidding myself

[Willortiz]

Originally Posted by vtl

Lot of people have this issue. The diameter of the nipple on the intake manifold is too narrow to vent the Tial quickly enough. You have to drill and tap the plastic intake manifold for a larger fitting. Can use a brass 1/4" barb and that should flow enough vacuum to activate your Tial. Put in a new larger diameter hose to match it and it shouldn't flutter

Do a search for "n54 intake manifold nipple" on google and you'll see a few threads where they've done this mod. Seal up the threads with JB weld to prevent leaking. I am actually doing this mod for a friend on the weekend, getting really bad fluttering.

+1 ive read a lot on this subject especially since im down in miami along with big over here. At active auto works they have this fix and yes a lot of n54 guy go through this hence why i just got the turbosmart kit instead and sound great too. But yes like stated you have to tap a new nipple and use the uncolored ring to not have issues....for now so i heard. After this week id suggest giving mpi a call they're very close to us and not as expensive as active.

[vtl]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Yeah after I read around some more I saw threads suggesting this actually. Pretty disappointed that even though the Tial supposedly comes with a spring that is for our cars we have to do something like this. Strangely I didn't see this issue when I was researching BOVs, kinda regretting not going with the HKS SSQV (had it on a old NA-T car and it never needed adjusting). Seems like the only two options for this issue are doing the 1/4 tap as you suggested or taking apart the BOV and installing the lighter 10lb unpainted spring (which is like another $30 ). Could also be possible my car isn't pulling full vacuum and I could have a leak but I'm doubtful as I don't have any codes, is there a easy way to check vacuum?

Right now I'm just hoping that with some more driving the BOV 'breaks in', since some people said the Tial would be seized or the spring would be sticking after sitting on the shelf for awhile so maybe my spring just needs to get un-stuck.... I hope I'm not kidding myself

Are these parts all brand new? I'd find it hard to believe you would be having issues with it already

I think the easiest thing to do is remove the Tial. The v band clamp is really easy to remove unless you have some crazy intake system blocking access. Push in the piston by hand to make sure it isn't sticky or anything. Use whatever recommended oil to lube it up and retest. My mate had no issues with the Tial on stock turbos but since upgrading to RB turbos hes getting fluttering as they are not venting fast enough.

I wouldn't want to drive too long with compressor surge. Would reduce the life of the turbos if its fluttering and not dumping the high boost fast enough.

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by Willortiz

+1 ive read a lot on this subject especially since im down in miami along with big over here. At active auto works they have this fix and yes a lot of n54 guy go through this hence why i just got the turbosmart kit instead and sound great too. But yes like stated you have to tap a new nipple and use the uncolored ring to not have issues....for now so i heard. After this week id suggest giving mpi a call they're very close to us and not as expensive as active.

Dang I really don't want to tap out the nipple. Seems like a big job with having to take off the entire manifold and what not. While I'm sure the 10lb spring would help my problem I also feel like its a band aid since it would mean my car is not pulling the 20+ inches of vacuum that a N54 should pull. Seems like my next step is getting a hold of a vacuum gauge and seeing if its pulling under 20 and checking for vacuum leaks.

Originally Posted by vtl

Are these parts all brand new? I'd find it hard to believe you would be having issues with it already

I think the easiest thing to do is remove the Tial. The v band clamp is really easy to remove unless you have some crazy intake system blocking access. Push in the piston by hand to make sure it isn't sticky or anything. Use whatever recommended oil to lube it up and retest. My mate had no issues with the Tial on stock turbos but since upgrading to RB turbos hes getting fluttering as they are not venting fast enough.

I wouldn't want to drive too long with compressor surge. Would reduce the life of the turbos if its fluttering and not dumping the high boost fast enough.

Yep brand new parts just bought them from N54tuning for their Black Friday special. I don't think the BOV is sticking anymore since I hear it vent while driving but its like a 2 stage blow off (like a whoosh-pssst sound) and at idle I see the BOV slightly cracked open and closes when you give it throttle and opens when you let off (which I have read is the proper operation).

The last couple days in the meantime I've been experimenting with bigger ID hoses and shorter lengths. Ive tried everything from a 1/4" fuel line to a 5.6mm vacuum hose back to a 4mm hose that's slightly stiffer than the 4mm the Tial came with. With all 3 now instead of getting major compressor surge at high boost I get it at mid boost and mid throttle, but not consistently. This BOV is really frustrating me

Does the JB4 display vacuum on the computer interface?

[Willortiz]

Bro save the fustration sell that kit and get another one thats not tial. Not to trash on them but with our cars there is always hiccups or little nicknacks just get a different set up. IMO get a bov thats 50/50 or a good set of dv's. Or hks but to me its a little ricer

[BigRussia]

So I got a vacuum tester gauge from Harbor Freight and with the provided 13/64" (~5mm) hose into a 4mm hose on the 1/8" intake nipple the car pulled a steady 20 inches of vacuum once idle settled down. I tried again with the 13/64" hose by itself to the nipple secured with a zip tie and again got 20in of vacuum. So good news that my car is pulling proper vacuum and doesn't have leaks or gunked up intake valves, but then the Tial should be working perfectly fine since its 11lb spring is rated for 20in vacuum. Then I used the 13/64" hose from the gauge to run the BOV since it got a solid 20in vacuum with the zip tie on the nipple, but I'm still getting the inconsistent mid thottle/mid boost flutter-pssst vent. It seems to be happening less though...now every 3rd or 4th time while every other time is the 'normal' 2 stage whooosh-psssst vent.

So maybe my next steps are to contact Tial themselves and see if this is actually normal operation for this thing? Or maybe I have a defective unit or bad/sticking spring? I've even heard of people lubricating the springs but don't know what to use or how.

Originally Posted by Willortiz

Bro save the fustration sell that kit and get another one thats not tial. Not to trash on them but with our cars there is always hiccups or little nicknacks just get a different set up. IMO get a bov thats 50/50 or a good set of dv's. Or hks but to me its a little ricer

Word, last resort Ill get rid of the Tial if I cant resolve the issues after I've done everything. And I agree about the HKS, I had one on my S14 back in the day it was nice but on this car I didn't want that obnoxious loud whistle hence why I leaned towards the quieter Tial.

[tglazed]

Are you running the yellow spring or the plain spring? Try running the plain spring and see if that fixes your issue. I ran a Tial on my old N54 and it ran perfect. No need to install the larger nipple/vacuum line or anything. Also, have you done what was suggested earlier and pulled the BOV off and pushed it in to make sure that it was not sticking?

[vtl]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Dang I really don't want to tap out the nipple. Seems like a big job with having to take off the entire manifold and what not. While I'm sure the 10lb spring would help my problem I also feel like its a band aid since it would mean my car is not pulling the 20+ inches of vacuum that a N54 should pull. Seems like my next step is getting a hold of a vacuum gauge and seeing if its pulling under 20 and checking for vacuum leaks.



Yep brand new parts just bought them from N54tuning for their Black Friday special. I don't think the BOV is sticking anymore since I hear it vent while driving but its like a 2 stage blow off (like a whoosh-pssst sound) and at idle I see the BOV slightly cracked open and closes when you give it throttle and opens when you let off (which I have read is the proper operation).

The last couple days in the meantime I've been experimenting with bigger ID hoses and shorter lengths. Ive tried everything from a 1/4" fuel line to a 5.6mm vacuum hose back to a 4mm hose that's slightly stiffer than the 4mm the Tial came with. With all 3 now instead of getting major compressor surge at high boost I get it at mid boost and mid throttle, but not consistently. This BOV is really frustrating me

Does the JB4 display vacuum on the computer interface?

I ended up doing the mod yesterday. Removed intake manifold, drilled and tapped for 1/4" NPT thread. Tial is now working much better venting off the extra flow of the rb turbos.

Its labor intensive, you'd probably be better off returning it and getting the turbosmart raceport instead.

[Elsabor67]

Just a quick suggestion. Make sure that you line up the nipple and bolt on top of the Tial to make sure that it is not blocking the flow of the vacuum. The bolt has a hole in it's shaft that needs to align with the banjo nipple so it can align and vent properly.

I had this happen to me when I initially installed mine over 3 years ago. I haven't had any issues since and boosting close to 19lbs with no issues venting. I have not modified my manifold at all and everything works great.

[BigRussia]

Ok so I decided to take apart the Tial BOV. As Elsabor67 suggested the air bolt hole was not lined up with the banjo bolt nipple, and to my surprise the BOV had the plain unpainted -10lb spring instead of the yellow -11lb that vendors say the N54 specific Tial Qs come with, so that had me confused. Lastly there was virtually no lube or grease on the stem or piston, and there was even some light surface rust on the inside of the spring cup! I used 3inOne Oil to clean off the rust and lubricate the stem and piston then reassembled with the airbolt hole lined up with banjo nipple. I didnt cut down the spring cause it was the -10 instead of the -11, I had intended to cut a coil or two when I thought it had came with the -11 spring.

So far so good, no real difference but maybe the BOV seems slightly more responsive/louder and the only time I'm able to purposely get the 2 stage flutter vent is in a high gear at low speed and struggling to build boost (like going 30mph in 5th gear and punching it). I've still heard the 2-stage flutter during normal driving but it's very rare now. I think I'm done messing with this damn thing, Ive gotten it to the point where its working as good as it should.

[EvoKnvl]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Word, last resort Ill get rid of the Tial if I cant resolve the issues after I've done everything. And I agree about the HKS, I had one on my S14 back in the day it was nice but on this car I didn't want that obnoxious loud whistle hence why I leaned towards the quieter Tial.

You guys realize that you can change the insert so it doesn't whistle, right? Or remove the insert. It changes the sound completely. I'm running the purple, no whistle

[ShocknAwe]

Much better without the fins, didn't know about that, thanks.

[BigRussia]

Yeah if I knew I could just take out the HKS's whistle to quiet it down I would've gone with that, kinda regret not knowing that earlier lol.