0-60 135 opinion

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

I'm curious(and lazy)....

So am I. :wink:

[Euro Durch Tod]

Originally Posted by Dr. No

Official specifications from BMW rates the 335i to hit 100 km/h (62 mph) in 5.5 secs. Official BMW specs for that car in acceleration from 0 to 60 mph is 5.3, 0.2 secs below.

I think that official acceleration for the 135i form 0 to 60 mph will be of about 5.1 secs. Don't you agree?

Ive seen the numbers puttin the 335i about 4.8, so if bmw says the 135i is 5.3 itll prolly be close to upper-mid 4s in reality

[TESLAASTRO]

The 4.8 figure for the 335 coupe was from 8/07 R&T....if 135 equals that, I'll be elated....

[plien69]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

I'm curious(and lazy)....what are the rear tire dimensions of the 135....I'm guessing 225-45-18?

I believe the tread widths are 10mm less than the E46 M3 setup: 215/40 F, 245/35 R
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._datasheet.pdf

[ppDoc]

front 7.5 J x 18" with 215/40 R 18 tyres.
rear 8.5 J x 18" with 245/35 R 18 tyres

[2fast]

C&D= 4.6s

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO

The 4.8 figure for the 335 coupe was from 8/07 R&T....if 135 equals that, I'll be elated....

me too!!

[ChrisK]

I just hope the 135i is faster than the new Mits Evo X !

[ppDoc]

Originally Posted by chriskurn

I just hope the 135i is faster than the new Mits Evo X !

still the evo might handle better

[ChrisK]

We will have to wait for the reviews. I really do believe BMW has set the 1 series up to be the track king. aka lots of torque, 6 piston brakes

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by DiaBLoS

still the evo might handle better

Pretty likely.

The reviews say the Evo is more balanced than before, but that might not be saying much. The last iteration was literally one of the sharpest handling cars in the world (but would punish you for it). It runs with supercars without building up a sweat. They're not going to throw that out the window.

Out of the box, simply because it's a BMW, the 1er handling will be more balanced than sharp. Even the M cars, while tighter strung, lean toward balance.

The car is not going to be set up to be a track king off the floor. That will require mods and tuning.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by chriskurn

I just hope the 135i is faster than the new Mits Evo X !

Hunh? a tossable rear wheel drive BMW with the ability to torque steer..?

The Mitsu EVO X doesn't have a chance!






-Garrett

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Hunh? a tossable rear wheel drive BMW with the ability to torque steer..?

The Mitsu EVO X doesn't have a chance!

-Garrett

This makes me suspect you've never driven an Evo, and obviously you've never driven a 135i... :biggrin:

You could probably count on one hand the number of cars that handle better than the Evo and all but one would cost at least 5x more, the exception being the Lotus El/Ex.

The 135i will likely have very good balanced handling, with an emphasis on balance, but it's not going to be supercar class out of the box. The Evo is.

[imported_MnM135i]

Originally Posted by kurichan

This makes me suspect you've never driven an Evo, and obviously you've never driven a 135i... :biggrin:

You could probably count on one hand the number of cars that handle better than the Evo and all but one would cost at least 5x more, the exception being the Lotus El/Ex.

The 135i will likely have very good balanced handling, with an emphasis on balance, but it's not going to be supercar class out of the box. The Evo is.

Agreed, the new Evo is an TRACK MONSTER right out of the box.

In a 1/4 mile the 135i with demolish the new Evo.

On a Track the Evo will certainly show its superiority.

Proof: Numbers for the evo are 13.8 at 102, BUT it lapped a track 2 whole seconds faster than the Evo 9.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by kurichan

This makes me suspect you've never driven an Evo, and obviously you've never driven a 135i... :biggrin:

You could probably count on one hand the number of cars that handle better than the Evo and all but one would cost at least 5x more, the exception being the Lotus El/Ex.

The 135i will likely have very good balanced handling, with an emphasis on balance, but it's not going to be supercar class out of the box. The Evo is.

??
I driven many cars, and many people have me drive them in THEIR car. The EVO is a great handling car, no doubt. But it is not a supercar..!

We could debate this forever, but grab a June 2007 issue of Moter Trend and look at the indepth review they did of many great handling cars. You'll see the EVo is ranked pretty high.

Using the Spider Chart (page 105) the 3 bottom dynamics of chasis control, chasis response and chasis composer tell a nice story. The BMW 335i equals the EVo for chasis control and nearly as good in the composure category, though it is a tick ahead in the respose dept.

Given the fact that this car is based off the 1976 BMW 2002 (see pic), it is smaller and somewhat lighter. If BMW suplants some of the original 2002's DNA into the 1series, it should out-handle the 335i..!

1970 era BMW 2002 pic:



Time will tell, but I do not think the EVO will have that great of an advantage over the 135i, specially if PROcede'd. Because of the improved torque!






-Garrett

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by Garrett

??
I driven many cars, and many people have me drive them in THEIR car.

So in other words, you've never driven an Evo... :wink:

The EVO is a great handling car, no doubt. But it is not a supercar..!

Please don't try to change what I wrote to make your point... I didn't call it a supercar. I said it can run with supercars because it handles so well.

We could debate this forever, but grab a June 2007 issue of Moter Trend and look at the indepth review they did of many great handling cars. You'll see the EVo is ranked pretty high.

You are quoting Motor Trend as an objective source?

Given the fact that this car is based off the 1976 BMW 2002 (see pic), it is smaller and somewhat lighter.

Let's separate marketing hype and facts.

The 135i is not "based off the BMW 2002."

In addition, the car is BARELY lighter than the 335i (which is pretty absurd).

Time will tell, but I do not think the EVO will have that great of an advantage over the 135i, specially if PROcede'd. Because of the improved torque!

Evo's can be hopped up too, so chipping is irrelevent.

I'm not interested in getting an Evo myself - if the 135i is decent, that's what I'll get, but I'm not going to fool myself into believing that it handles better than an Evo, especially out of the box, part of the discussion that seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Be real!

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by kurichan

So in other words, you've never driven an Evo... :wink:

Please don't try to change what I wrote to make your point... I didn't call it a supercar. I said it can run with supercars because it handles so well.

You are quoting Motor Trend as an objective source?

Let's separate marketing hype and facts.

The 135i is not "based off the BMW 2002."

In addition, the car is BARELY lighter than the 335i (which is pretty absurd).



Evo's can be hopped up too, so chipping is irrelevent.

I'm not interested in getting an Evo myself - if the 135i is decent, that's what I'll get, but I'm not going to fool myself into believing that it handles better than an Evo, especially out of the box, part of the discussion that seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Be real!

What..?

Yes, I have driven EVO's. I have people give me their keys and ask me to drive them in their EVOs, because they drive like a puss and enjoyed and felt comfortable with me flogging their cars.

It handles good, real good. My Zo6 could pull more g's, but that was a different beast altogether.

I said we could debate this to ad nauseum, but if you didn't read the Moter Trend's article I am talking about, shame on you. Any SOURCE of info is a good thing. And yes, the EVO is an all around good great handling performe, but so is a BMW without RFT's. Read the article!


Yes, the 1series is partially based off the 1970's smaller compact BMW 2002. Thats the whole premis of the 1series. Now, how much DNA they've retained is another story. In europe they seem to be pretty happy with the cars "tossible" nature.

Here is your first clue.. BMW 1 series micro site
Click on Pure BMW and to get a indepth understanding of the design goto Media gallery and watch the video called "Design". You will see the 135i is influenced and hints at the 2002's DNA. There are several other video on BMW web-tv with engineers mentioning the 1970's 2002 re-emergance in the 1series.





-Garrett

[imported_MnM135i]

Originally Posted by Garrett

What..?

Yes, I have driven EVO's. I have people give me their keys and ask me to drive them in their EVOs, because they drive like a puss and enjoyed and felt comfortable with me flogging their cars.

It handles good, real good. My Zo6 could pull more g's, but that was a different beast altogether.

I said we could debate this to ad nauseum, but if you didn't read the Moter Trend's article I am talking about, shame on you. Any SOURCE of info is a good thing. And yes, the EVO is an all around good great handling performe, but so is a BMW without RFT's. Read the article!


Yes, the 1series is partially based off the 1970's smaller compact BMW 2002. Thats the whole premis of the 1series. Now, how much DNA they've retained is another story. In europe they seem to be pretty happy with the cars "tossible" nature.

Here is your first clue.. BMW 1 series micro site
Click on Pure BMW and to get a indepth understanding of the design goto Media gallery and watch the video called "Design". You will see the 135i is influenced and hints at the 2002's DNA. There are several other video on BMW web-tv with engineers mentioning the 1970's 2002 re-emergance in the 1series.





-Garrett

I agree with you that the 1-Series will handle nicely and will be a overall superb car if it comes out like we all hope, but it will not match the Evo in handling.

Not to mention the Evo in our US Market doesn't even compare to the one's in Japan and Europe (Basing on past models). Where the Evo FQ-400 surpassed the Lamborghini Murcielago. Our Evo IX also lacked many of the features like AYC and other suspension handling features that were seen in the Japanesse model.

I am new to BMWs but I don't know how "dumb-downed" they are from Europe to America, I'm sure some but not sure if it equals the difference is the Evo.

As great as the last Evo was as well, The new X although slower in a 1/4 mile finished Willow Springs (California Track) 2 seconds faster than the IX.

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by Garrett

It handles good, real good.

It handles GOOD?

...if you didn't read the Moter Trend's article I am talking about, shame on you. Any SOURCE of info is a good thing.

The Nazi party would be proud of you making that statement!

Now check into Motor Trend's business model. It's not journalism, it's essentially paid promotion.

And yes, the EVO is an all around good great handling performe, but so is a BMW without RFT's. Read the article!

No the Evo isn't an all around "good great handling performe." [sic]

It does one thing really well: it cuts up the turns.

In return, you get punished with chipped teeth and spinal compaction.

A BMW is more balanced. But for pure performance driving, the Evo would squash it. Period.

Yes, the 1series is partially based off the 1970's smaller compact BMW 2002.

What the heck do you mean by that? You keep saying it but you aren't making sense.

The 1 Series is not BASED off the 2002.

The 1 Series Coupe is a coupe version of BMW's entry level small car called the 1 Series.

There is no mechanical relationship.

Some smart marketing people noticed that the greenhouse was similar to the 2002 and ran with it. That's called marketing hype. If the 135i had any 2002 DNA, it wouldn't weigh so damn much.

Thats the whole premis of the 1series. Now, how much DNA they've retained is another story. In europe they seem to be pretty happy with the cars "tossible" nature.

The whole premise of the car is to occupy a segment that BMW is not in, to take market share in the space, increase revenues, and introduce younger people to the marque. Comparison to earlier models is marketing hype.

Here is your first clue.. BMW 1 series micro site
Click on Pure BMW and to get a indepth understanding of the design goto Media gallery and watch the video called "Design". You will see the 135i is influenced and hints at the 2002's DNA. There are several other video on BMW web-tv with engineers mentioning the 1970's 2002 re-emergance in the 1series.

Do you really take this stuff as religion? Are you REALLY that naive, or are you just trolling for reactions?

Just out of curiousity, does this:



Have the DNA of this?



It must... Ford said so...

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by kurichan

It handles GOOD?

The Nazi party would be proud of you making that statement!

Now check into Motor Trend's business model. It's not journalism, it's essentially paid promotion.

No the Evo isn't an all around "good great handling performe." [sic]

It does one thing really well: it cuts up the turns.

In return, you get punished with chipped teeth and spinal compaction.

A BMW is more balanced. But for pure performance driving, the Evo would squash it. Period.

What the heck do you mean by that? You keep saying it but you aren't making sense.

The 1 Series is not BASED off the 2002.

The 1 Series Coupe is a coupe version of BMW's entry level small car called the 1 Series.

There is no mechanical relationship.

Some smart marketing people noticed that the greenhouse was similar to the 2002 and ran with it. That's called marketing hype. If the 135i had any 2002 DNA, it wouldn't weigh so damn much.

The whole premise of the car is to occupy a segment that BMW is not in, to take market share in the space, increase revenues, and introduce younger people to the marque. Comparison to earlier models is marketing hype.


Do you really take this stuff as religion? Are you REALLY that naive, or are you just trolling for reactions?

Just out of curiousity, does this:



Have the DNA of this?



It must... Ford said so...

OMG...lol

Ok Corky, BMW themselves have claimed the 1970's 2002 was the inspiration for them bringing forth and making the smaller 1 series. Since you don't bother to even click on the links or further investigate then your ignorance will remain. I can tell your not interested in learning anything or sharing ideas. The 1series is just now comming to the US, in the form of the coupe'. This car was clayed and modeled with photos of the 2002 on easels in the design studio. I've seen photos and interviews going back a full year. It's not some strummed up marketing hype.

You obviously don't understand BMW, their engineering and why their cars are among the best cars for over past 50 years. Why each car has a specific DNA about it, lost on other cars manufacturers. Your Ford comparison is a joke, ford does not have that level of engineering or refinement. For them its just aesthetics not engineering!

Thirdly, you arbitrarilly discounted Moter Trend's Best Handling Cars On The Market , simply because you feel they have an agenda, yet I'm suppose to believe YOU? Why not just read the article, read between the lines... along with other mags and pull the pertinent info from the article..? No mag is 100% correct, thats why I read them all and derive my own opinions.

You seriously have a bug up your but about not educating yourself. Have you ever driven a Zo6 or a BMW M3 or 335..? Those cars handle great and offer alot more than a Mitsu EVO. You have to be really on the edge to exact the performance the EVO has over the 335 or the other cars. Track day is where the EVO shines the most. I guess you didn't understand that I am not denying that the evo is a great handleing car, the EVO does carve it up, but that doesn't mean other cays can't. The Cayman S will outhandle the Mitsu, but the Cayman suffers from the same fatigue the EVo does.

You make it sound as if the EVO will be laping a 135i on a road coarse, when the simple fact is that it might be a second or two faster, at most! To me that is perfect, because the BMW offers alot more than the EVO in terms of comfort, build quality, luxury, smoothness and refinement. You can't add those things to an EVO, but you certainly can make the 135i lighter and get rid of the RFT's that plague the 335i's handling.

It remains to see what DNA from the 2002 is left over in the 1 series and how much steering response and feedback the BMW engineers have allowed into the 1 series. But we know it is greater than the 3 series.


The EVo will not have as much advantage over the 135i as you think. Many Cayman owners are looking into this 135i because they want a more refined GT style car, but don't want to sacrifice the Cayman's handling. Yes, there will be some sacrifices, but I know driving an EVO (like the Porsche) anything more than a couple of hours becomes tiring. The reason I got ride of my Zo6 and havn't pulled the trigger on the Cayman S. So if I feel the new M3 isn't all that great I will just load up a 135i, yank the RFT's, slap on some QD-7's and not worry all that much about anything.

Either way, I am looking for a comparo between the two cars, since they are targeting the same buyers.




-Garrett

[atr_hugo]

Gotta love that Mustang comapro. And in that light do you know that the very first car built by BMW was an Austin 7 (under license after BMW purchased Dixi). I wonder if there's a little Austin 7 DNA in the 1 series?

And then if we use that same 'marketing-hype, post-modernist illogical logic' an argument could be made that the BMW 1 series and the Lotus Elite are related, after all Anthony Colin Bruce Chapman started with Austin 7 hill climb specials.

Cars don't have DNA - well, other than the stinking 'Fox' body Mustangs (the same platform from 1979 to 2005 - a quarter century on a crappy Fairmont floorpan ; -).

Kurichan - arguing with fanboix is a role usually assigned to Sisyphus. :biggrin:

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Gotta love that Mustang comapro. And in that light do you know that the very first car built by BMW was an Austin 7 (under license after BMW purchased Dixi). I wonder if there's a little Austin 7 DNA in the 1 series?

And then if we use that same 'marketing-hype, post-modernist illogical logic' an argument could be made that the BMW 1 series and the Lotus Elite are related, after all Anthony Colin Bruce Chapman started with Austin 7 hill climb specials.

Cars don't have DNA - well, other than the stinking 'Fox' body Mustangs (the same platform from 1979 to 2005 - a quarter century on a crappy Fairmont floorpan ; -).

Kurichan - arguing with fanboix is a role usually assigned to Sisyphus. :biggrin:

:iono:
Yeah, Porsche doesn't have an icon because they tried everything. Their ideas and engineering grew out of every car they made before it, the heritage is there, the ancestors DNA is in every new model, just refined and evovled, but can always be traced back.

BMW has a dinstict DNA, Ford has none. They design and manufacture cars differently. Ford doesn't refine a model over several generations, they just make a new model. That will stay into production until a new model or a new engine comes along.

BMW's long bout with inline 6's it evidence that their cars evolve from the same idealogy or formula that can only be considered a part of the Manufacturer's or particuliar car's DNA.


Hugo, if you cannot wrap your head around the term, it's simply because you not ment to. It goes along with your inability to respond in a just manner and bad use of sarcasm, your simply a dolt. Antagonizing me will only lead to some type of confrontation, which I kindly decline. Although, that alone won't resolve the fact you just don't understand! or.. have a keen eye for that level of engineering.

Cheers:thumbup:







-Garrett