My PS2 turbo swap has begun (finally)

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

Didn’t realize you had posted updates last week. Any new logs with the new plugs/octane? I personally have my afr trend towards a Target of 12.2 in the upper revs.

I went to chuckwalla raceway last weekend and ran boostane to get to 99 octane 18psi, 11 degrees of timing. Car didn’t miss a beat. I would still like to run e85 at some point but I need PI or the helix od (which I am not fully convinced is an option yet). But for now, the boostane is working great.

Also, if I remember correctly, there are two fuel bank tables, make sure they match.

That's good to hear about your track day. Below is a log from this morning. The car felt really good. I have the new plugs gapped at .025 but Terry from BMS suggested trying .020 or .018 and checking what that does with timing. I'm still playing with the duty bias on the JB4 so I should be able to get the actual boost closer to the target of 17. Then I'll bump it up to 18 and see what timing looks like. I'm looking forward to another track day hopefully soon but also interested in doing some drag racing. The PS2 and better octane isn't going to help me 1 bit racing auto-cross, which is my main hobby. This weekend I'm probably going to play with the AFR on the BEF and see what happens. The plan is to have the flywheel installed at the end of the month, which I'm looking forward to.

https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/2222020-am?log=0&data=1-4

[houtan]

The OE afr is too rich at high rpm/load. You are going to dip into the low 10s at shift and misfire. That’s my experience at least.

Agree the bms afr is a little lean. At one point it was thought the lean afr was the fix for the phantom dct misfires is their e85 flash targeted something g in the 13s at redline, which turned out not to be the case.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

The OE afr is too rich. You are going to dip into the low 10s at shift and misfire. That’s my experience at least.

Agree the bms afr is a little lean. At one point it was thought the lean afr was the fix for the phantom dct misfires is their e85 flash targeted something g in the 13s at redline, which turned out not to be the case.

Thanks for sharing your experience about the OEM tune being too rich and BMS being too lean. I might start by splitting the difference between the 2 and seeing how it runs. I need to do some research and learn how to tell when the AFR is just right. I know I can pull a plug and if it's black it's too rich, but it would be nice if there was a way to look at a log and see.

[JPuehl]

I made a few adjustments to the Duty Bias, still not hitting target, so I'll check for a boost leak over the weekend, but the trims and timing doesn't look too bad.

https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/20200211...ata=1-3-4-8-20

[houtan]

It does look like the higher octane cleaned up your log. When was the last time you changed your boost solenoid? I believe mine started to die around 47,000 miles.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

I made a few adjustments to the Duty Bias, still not hitting target, so I'll check for a boost leak over the weekend, but the trims and timing doesn't look too bad.

https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/20200211...ata=1-3-4-8-20

Not sure how much you raised the octane but yeah that log is much better. AVG IGN <1. Timing is solid rather than pulling 9* across the board lol.

Never seen anyone say OEM tune is too rich. 14.x:1 at low rpm/load enriching to 12.x:1 or so at high rpm. That's what just about everyone targets. As load is increased over stock you do generally see people dropping the stock AFR curve by .5-1 points though. Lean spool mode is an issue with jb4 though still where there doesn't seem to be any biasing occurring and things start leaning out during spool.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

It does look like the higher octane cleaned up your log. When was the last time you changed your boost solenoid? I believe mine started to die around 47,000 miles.

Hmm, I haven't yet and I have just under 42k miles on my car. Looks like they're only $160 so if I don't have any boost leaks I may just replace it. Worst case is I end up with an extra boost solenoid which is fine since my wife was a 335i with an N55 (which is the reason I kept my old low mileage turbo as a backup for her car).

Thanks for mentioning that as a possible issue.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Not sure how much you raised the octane but yeah that log is much better. AVG IGN <1. Timing is solid rather than pulling 9* across the board lol.

Never seen anyone say OEM tune is too rich. It runs on the lean side as you can see in your Jb4 log. 14.x:1 at low rpm/load enriching to 12.7:1 or so at high rpm. As load is increased over stock you generally see people dropping the stock AFR curve by .5-1 full points. Lean spool mode is an issue with jb4 though still where there doesn't seem to be any biasingoccurring and things start leaning out during spool.

I should’ve been more clear. I was referring to the OE afr at high rpm/load. I’ll have to double check but I believe the factory afr at high rpm/load drops into the 11s.

Completely agree the afr at low/mid/spool on the factory tune is too lean. BMS will say the lean afr is normal since it’s the factory tune, but I always felt Uncomfortable with how lean my car ran at tip in running their bef.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Not sure how much you raised the octane but yeah that log is much better. AVG IGN <1. Timing is solid rather than pulling 9* across the board lol.

Never seen anyone say OEM tune is too rich. It runs on the lean side as you can see in your Jb4 log. 14.x:1 at low rpm/load enriching to 12.7:1 or so at high rpm. As load is increased over stock you generally see people dropping the stock AFR curve by .5-1 full points. Lean spool mode is an issue with jb4 though where there doesn't seem to be any biasing occurring and things start leaning out during spool.

Last night before the pulls I logged, I filled up again with 92 octane and enough BOOSTane to "turn it into" 98 octane. I'm on my 2nd tank and so far I'm liking the results of BOOSTane.

As far as the mention of the OE tune being too rich, houtan mentioned that a few posts up. I have the JB4 BEF and when compared to the OEM fuel maps, the JB4 leans the bottom and top end and leaves the spool values alone, which starts at 15.4 and ends at 14.7 at 3500 rpm, as seen in my log. I think that might need some adjustment as that just sounds too lean.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

I should’ve been more clear. I was referring to the OE afr at high rpm/load. I’ll have to double check but I believe the factory afr at high rpm/load drops into the 11s.

Completely agree the afr at low/mid/spool on the factory tune is too lean. BMS will say the lean afr is normal since it’s the factory tune, but I always felt Uncomfortable with how lean my car ran at tip in running their bef.

BMS left the OEM spool map alone, which can be changed. The OEM leans the top end down to low 11's (11.0) and BMS changed it to the upper 12's (12.7). Seems it should be more towards the low 12's at the top end.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

Last night before the pulls I logged, I filled up again with 92 octane and enough BOOSTane to "turn it into" 98 octane. I'm on my 2nd tank and so far I'm liking the results of BOOSTane.

As far as the mention of the OE tune being too rich, houtan mentioned that a few posts up. I have the JB4 BEF and when compared to the OEM fuel maps, the JB4 leans the bottom and top end and leaves the spool values alone, which starts at 15.4 and ends at 14.7 at 3500 rpm, as seen in my log. I think that might need some adjustment as that just sounds too lean.

I was referencing logs where we have seen people JB4 only 16:1 to as lean as 20:1 during spool without a BEF. IDK the logic behind why BMS leans the AFR out with the BEF. Even BMW with PPK enriches the AFR vs stock as they increased load. My old PPk logs show 12:1 or so at 6500rpm.

I do remember from years ago with what Houtan mentioned, I think. Back when Shiv was tuning N54 and there were talks of leaner AFR cleaning up timing corrections. I don't think any of that proved to be true over time. Or at least not when you consider enriching the AFR in correlation to an increase in load.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

It does look like the higher octane cleaned up your log.

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Not sure how much you raised the octane but yeah that log is much better. AVG IGN <1. Timing is solid rather than pulling 9* across the board lol.

One issue I've noticed is the lack of repeat-ability in the logs. Even with leaving everything as-is and logging the same pull, same tank of tank, same temps, same road, same process, I don't end up with 2 logs that look the same. I'm not going to touch anything and try again tonight. My guess is that timing will be way off. I'd like to get 2 logs to match, within reason, before adjusting the BEF or I won't really know the affect of the changes I've made.

[JPuehl]

OMG this is so frustrating. On the way home this evening I decided to log another pull to see if I could reproduce yesterdays pull, within reason. Everything was the same today as it was yesterday when i logged the pull; weather conditions, time of day, road, process used to do the pull. The only difference is that the car had 16 miles more than yesterday. First pull I had 0* or almost no timing for most of the pull. Seeing this on the gauges during the pull, I turned around, and did the pull again, this time I had some timing, not as good as yesterday. WTF! Is the JB4 causing this inconsistency? This certainly can't be relied on when I race.

Pull 1 - 0*
https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/2122020-...log=0&data=1-4

Pull 2 - some timing
https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/2122020-...log=0&data=1-4

[drwillb]

Welcome to JB4. Well, maybe it’s got more to do with the car. I’ve been running JB4 for 4 years and the inconsistency is annoying. The best way to try to equalize all the factors is make sure your fuel is good and same octane. Also, if you daily drive the car you need to reset adaptations and do 3 WOT runs before logging. That’s the part that has to do with the car.

Now that I’m BEF I’m finding that pre-spool is just stupid aggressive with JB4 and that seems to affect boost stability at around 3k rpm.

Anyway, there’s definitely a custom tune in my future but the more I read on the forums the more I want to wait on that until someone shows that they have a firm understanding of how all the tables interrelate. I’m hoping Anjuna’s thread will lead to good things.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by drwillb

Welcome to JB4. Well, maybe it’s got more to do with the car. I’ve been running JB4 for 4 years and the inconsistency is annoying. The best way to try to equalize all the factors is make sure your fuel is good and same octane. Also, if you daily drive the car you need to reset adaptations and do 3 WOT runs before logging. That’s the part that has to do with the car.

I've had the JB4 for ~4 1/2 years and my biggest complaint is the inconsistent feeling. As mentioned my car was the same last night logging the pulls as the day before when I had what I considered a really good log. Tuesday I made some changes to the duty bias, based on Terry's recommendation, to try to hit target, did 4 pulls total and the 4th was the best. Then yesterday expected to be at least close to the way it was running on Tuesday and it wasn't. I logged another pull this morning on my way to my office and timing looks good again. Everything was the same as last night except cooler IATs. I didn't do any "learning" pulls, just had an opportunity and took advantage of it. Of course I'll try again on my way home and will see what happens. My bet is the timing will look crappy.

Logged pull from this morning with no changes since 2/11/2020:
https://datazap.me/u/jpuehl/20200213...ta=1-3-4-18-25

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by drwillb

I’m hoping Anjuna’s thread will lead to good things.

Can you link "Anjuna's thread"? I'm trying to get as much info as I can to either get the JB4 to run descent or ditch it for a tune, probably by Wedge.

[mKilgore]

What is considered to be the acceptable deviation for "hitting boost"? For most of your pull, you're within 1psi of target.

[drwillb]

This is Anjuna's thread. Put on your thinking cap and turn off all outside distractions.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1693922

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by mKilgore

What is considered to be the acceptable deviation for "hitting boost"?

This is a good question as I don't really know. One issue I'm seeing/having is that I keep raising the duty bias by 5 to try to get closer to target and I'm still not there. It seems a boost controller (the JB4) should be able to get closer to the target.

Edit: I am going to check for a boost leak over the weekend and if none are found will look into replacing my boost controller based on houtan's observation.

[houtan]

You could always remove the JB4, run the stock flash, and grab some logs with MHD to see how she is running.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by houtan

You could always remove the JB4, run the stock flash, and grab some logs with MHD to see how she is running.

True, it's easy enough to disconnect the JB4. One thing I just noticed is that I checked a bunch of logs I made this past weekend and they were all using map 1 which targets 16 psi and ALL the logs had good timing, none with the 0's like I'm seeing using map 6 at 17 psi. The problem is that in the "clean" logs for map 6 at 17 psi, the timing looks pretty good, and the same as map 1 at 16 psi, so it seems to be an issue with map 6.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by drwillb

This is Anjuna's thread. Put on your thinking cap and turn off all outside distractions.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1693922

Thanks for the link, it's a good read so far and am looking forward to more updates. It might help me get my "tune" in line, even tho it will be just modifying the BMS JB4 BEF and not my own standalone tune.