Camber can't get any more positive than -2.9?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Time for M3 parts!

In seriousness. Everything looks reasonable. Agree with the above replacement of hardware and realignment with trusted alignment tech at one of your indy shops.

It's a need at this point right? ha. I can't find any aftermarket camber and toe arm that has a rubber bushing.

I will do the above and let you know how it turns out. Your thread is why I wanted a black 135i! And this photoshoot from a decade ago: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612807

[dtla1]

Let me know what shops/area you're at. If it comes down to it, I can take my car in to do a side by side comparison haha.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Let me know what shops/area you're at. If it comes down to it, I can take my car in to do a side by side comparison haha.

Well, I'm getting alignment quotes. I'm in South Bay. Usually go to Performance Technic in Fremont. After already buying two, I'd like to not spend $200+ this time. Debating whether a $90-110 alignment at a non-bmw shop would be a waste of time. I'll pm you.
Brracing: $390
BTM Motorwerks: $250
Ptech: $195
Edge Motorworks: ~$200

[Gizmo135i]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Got it.

This is my left side:


This is my right side:


Can you tell by these images, or do I need to remove the bolt to check?

Maybe I’m missing something but it looks to me like the right side is adjusted all the way positive (Look at the position of the eccentric pushing the control arm towards the center of the car), while the left side is adjusted all the way negative... something has got to be bent on the right side, it can be very hard to tell by looking at the parts. Could be the knuckle, one or more control arms, sub frame etc..

Simply put if both eccentrics in the bolts are facing the same direction then one side is adjusted positive in relation to the center point of adjustment, and one side is negative in relation to the center point of adjustment.

Was the car ever in an accident?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by Gizmo135i

Maybe I’m missing something but it looks to me like the right side is adjusted all the way positive (Look at the position of the eccentric pushing the control arm towards the center of the car), while the left side is adjusted all the way negative... something has got to be bent on the right side, it can be very hard to tell by looking at the parts. Could be the knuckle, one or more control arms, sub frame etc..

Simply put if both eccentrics in the bolts are facing the same direction then one side is adjusted positive in relation to the center point of adjustment, and one side is negative in relation to the center point of adjustment.

Was the car ever in an accident?

Looking at the carfax, it looks like there was an accident in 2012 in the rear. Still has a clean title though. I guess at stock height when I drove it, it drove straight and tires looked like they wore evenly. Only lowering it, 8 years later, has revealed something possibly being bent.

Something must be bent if I'm the only one with this issue... oh boy. What are my options here? Do I have to remove the whole subframe to see what is bent or can I just get adjustable camber arms?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Looking at the carfax, it looks like there was an accident in 2012 in the rear. Still has a clean title though. I guess at stock height when I drove it, it drove straight and tires looked like they wore evenly. Only lowering it, 8 years later, has revealed something possibly being bent.

Something must be bent if I'm the only one with this issue... oh boy. What are my options here? Do I have to remove the whole subframe to see what is bent or can I just get adjustable camber arms?

More likely to be bent arms than a bent subframe. When arms get bent, they only get shorter, never longer. Since you seem to have excessive camber on the right rear, most likely the right rear upper control arm is bent. As that is the only arm if bent would increase camber on the right rear. Maybe time to install M3 rear upper arms?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

More likely to be bent arms than a bent subframe. When arms get bent, they only get shorter, never longer. Since you seem to have excessive camber on the right rear, most likely the right rear upper control arm is bent. As that is the only arm if bent would increase camber on the right rear. Maybe time to install M3 rear upper arms?

Sounds good to me. What's the best place to get M3 rear upper arms?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

More likely to be bent arms than a bent subframe. When arms get bent, they only get shorter, never longer. Since you seem to have excessive camber on the right rear, most likely the right rear upper control arm is bent. As that is the only arm if bent would increase camber on the right rear. Maybe time to install M3 rear upper arms?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...BoCJfsQAvD_BwE

This?

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by jsciam

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...BoCJfsQAvD_BwE

This?

Yup.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jsciam

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...BoCJfsQAvD_BwE

This?

Bingo. Have that exact kit on both my cars. Nice upgrade.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Bingo. Have that exact kit on both my cars. Nice upgrade.

If the arm was bent, would I be able to see it? Don't want to dish out another ~$400 if unnecessary and the arm does not look bent, then end up having to buy adjustable camber arms in the end.

Have you seen arms that look true, but in measurement off the car are very off?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jsciam

If the arm was bent, would I be able to see it? Don't want to dish out another ~$400 if unnecessary and the arm does not look bent, then end up having to buy adjustable camber arms in the end.

Have you seen arms that look true, but in measurement off the car are very off?

I know, it's risky. I replace a lot of suspensions and it always makes me nervous calling them. Can pretty much never see them visually bent.

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by jsciam

If the arm was bent, would I be able to see it? Don't want to dish out another ~$400 if unnecessary and the arm does not look bent, then end up having to buy adjustable camber arms in the end.

Have you seen arms that look true, but in measurement off the car are very off?

If you can DIY the install of the arms, and it's still not right, you can still return them. But overall they're worth the upgrade anyways in my opinion.

[tracer bullet]

Just curious if jsciam got this fixed and what worked?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Just curious if jsciam got this fixed and what worked?

Thanks Tracer, I have the new eccentric bolts, and new upper arm. Just trying to find time to install and get an alignment. I will update this thread when done to see if problem is solved.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by jsciam

The ball joints look normal to me, couldn't feel any play, bolts look the same. I'm willing to buy $50 of eccentric hardware vs $500 of camber+toe arms. Bummed i'm going to be $500 into alignments though!

This is a strange issue. Two BMW indy shops that I trust around my area have both said everything looks fine and i'm too low. This just can't be the case.

Or maybe it can just be the case. The suspension is basically a triangle, and for this discussion assume a right triangle with the strut or shock the hypotenuse . To lower the car you reduced the length of the hypotenuse. That means the top of the leg connecting the wheel to the shock is tilted in. That means your wheel has a bit more negative camber.

Maybe the car is just too low.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Tommm

Or maybe it can just be the case. The suspension is basically a triangle, and for this discussion assume a right triangle with the strut or shock the hypotenuse . To lower the car you reduced the length of the hypotenuse. That means the top of the leg connecting the wheel to the shock is tilted in. That means your wheel has a bit more negative camber.

Maybe the car is just too low.

Not on the rear suspension. The shock is not a structural member, you can completely remove it and it won't change anything. The 5 link rear suspension is very complex movement.

[jsciam]

Update:

Problem Solved*

After three shops being unable to figure out why my camber was very aggressive in the rear, I was recommended to try putting in a new upper rear control arm, as well as check the eccentric bolt. Thank you MightyMouseTech for the rec, and dtla1 for sharing is ride height so I can make some judgements.

I knew there was an accident in the rear, but it looked like a clean repair when I bought the car 1 year ago (accident happened in 2012) and thought the price was worth it. During this install I installed some blackline taillights I ordered months ago from Europe, and found some broken tabs and copious glue holding the stock light in place on the right.

I then swapped out the upper rear control arm (didn't go for M3 arms, just to save some coin in case this wasn't the issue and improvement was very subjective according to the forums) and it looked true and straight according to my eye.



After this I removed the eccentric bolt and washer and compared to the new one from FCP euro. BINGO. The PO put in the wrong size eccentric bolt, making the adjustability very minimal.



I installed the new bolt, tightened everything, then got my third alignment of the year. I was able to achieve -1.9 on the right side (maxed out) and -1.88 on the left side. What is very interesting is that the left side can still drop to -1.1 degrees of camber, but the right side is limited to -1.9. Even after the bolt, something might be bent.

Either way, it is definitely better to drive at -1.9 vs -2.7 in the rear, and I'm happy with it. Now that I'm actually getting traction in the rear, my clutch is starting to slip.... on to the next project.

Thanks again all.

[MightyMouseTech]

Glad to hear you found the issue!