1M vs Cayman S (conspiracy)

[Ender_]

Yes I did search for this topic.

So I went in to my dealership yesterday to do the paper work on my 1M, get talking to another SA and that the 1M is mine, he said good because I have a client who will give you 10k for the right to buy it.

This gets me thinking I could hop into a Cayman S/R, I go over to Porsche the same day and reality is the R is a Track day/weekend car, I need a daily. So look at the Cayman S and I could swing it.

Come home and looking at reviews of the Cayman and 1M they are all on the R and not the S, the one review that is out there has the 1M on top. Then I found a follow up article online where a writer is responding to complaints that the S is really the comparable car not the R. Well he agreed but said Porsche would only provide a R for this test. Leads me to believe Porsche knows the S doesn't cut it when put head to head, and costs $14k more.

Anyway I came back down to earth late yesterday and realized neither Cayman are practical in Canada as a daily driver(I would need a second car), and the 1M would be the better car compared to the S.

Anyone here driven the S and 1M?

[chachacha28]

you mean the porsche coxster? lol.

not really related at all, but i know a cayman cant hang with a chipped 135, in a straight line. I dont really know much about the porsches, so thats the only input i'll provide.

[b33g33]

I've driven my buddy's '11 Cayman (PDK). It's a very nice car but I just don't get the same sweaty palmed, giant grinned excitement the 1M provides.

The in-gear acceleration from this little torquemonster truly has to be experienced. Also, even with all the nanny modes on, this car will wag it tail and wiggle its hips like a puppy on varnished hardwood.

It's an incredibly fun car.

You will probably regret passing on the 1M.

[hybris4u]

1M did beat the Cayman R in the Top Gear acceleration challenge. It was 1M, Cayman R and the Lotus Evora. 1M did beat them all.

[HALOTHANE]

I drove against a MT Cayman S (stock) on the PBIR track and it could not keep up with my stock 135. In a straight line the 135 was consistently faster. The Cayman had a faster racing line only through the curves. At Homestead, my stock 1M could outpace the Cayman S, Aston Martin Vantage, and keep pace with the M3 DCT ZCP. You will not regret the 1M.

[ESC OFF]

I'm posting my own honest opinions here nothing scientific just my experiences of both cars: I own a slightly modified 2006 CaymanS (Remus racing exhaust, IDP Intake Plenum, GT3 throttle body) this puts the HP at about 325, the car also has PASM which is an adjustable suspension module that lowers the car about 3/4 of and inch and stiffens the supsension on demand. I also own a 1M which was a replacement for my 135i (BMW PE, SSK and Cobb tuning - Stage 1).
Acceleraton - The CS and 135i in stock form would be about equal in acceleration, the tuned (Cobb) 135i would be quicker and would be about equal to the 1M, Stock 1M> Stock CaymanS in acceleration.
Brakes - The brakes on the CaymanS are about 90-95% as good as the brakes in the 1M, they have a better feel in my opinion however the 1M brakes have better stopping power at the limit, for all practical purposes as a DD 1M brakes = CS brakes.
Handling - The CaymanS handles like no other car I have ever driven, including the 911, the balance of the mid engine and lower center of gravity make it incredibly tossable and also very forgiving. I think the CS has a better ride quality as a DD, the 1M is a little harsh when compared to the CS. The 1M is also a very good handling car however in stock form CS handling > 1M handling.
Seating position - Seats I would give the CS a slight edge in the comfort of the seats, the interior of the CS is smaller and feels more "fitted" to the driver, I think that the lower driving position and cockpit layout of the CS is better than the 1M.
Gearbox - Both cars have very good manual transmissions, the CS feels and sounds a little more mechanical and at times even "clunky" I would rate the 1M gearbox > CS gearbox.
Practicality as a DD - the 1M has 4 seats, the CS has 2 does that matter? The 1M has a larger truck however the CS has 2 storage locations and can fit much more cargo than you would expect, the 1M > CS for storage. Economy, let's face it both of these cars are very fuel efficient considering the performance they offer however the CS will easily give me mid to high 20's MPG while driving it like it was intended to be driven MPG CS > 1M. The CS requires more driver involvement and attention, it's easy to sit back in the 1M and just get where you are going, the CS can be a workout on long drives, 1M > CS.
Winter driving - hands down 1M, the CS is a little to low to deal with snow (and too darn pretty to get covered with slush) 1M > CS.

Conclusions - As a DD the 1M offers great performance, more usable space and also does not call attention to itself (to most other drivers) and would be my vote over the CaymanS if I was to choose only one of these two fine cars.

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by ESC OFF

I'm posting my own honest opinions here nothing scientific just my experiences of both cars: I own a slightly modified 2006 CaymanS (Remus racing exhaust, IDP Intake Plenum, GT3 throttle body) this puts the HP at about 325, the car also has PASM which is an adjustable suspension module that lowers the car about 3/4 of and inch and stiffens the supsension on demand. I also own a 1M which was a replacement for my 135i (BMW PE, SSK and Cobb tuning - Stage 1).
Acceleraton - The CS and 135i in stock form would be about equal in acceleration, the tuned (Cobb) 135i would be quicker and would be about equal to the 1M, Stock 1M> Stock CaymanS in acceleration.
Brakes - The brakes on the CaymanS are about 90-95% as good as the brakes in the 1M, they have a better feel in my opinion however the 1M brakes have better stopping power at the limit, for all practical purposes as a DD 1M brakes = CS brakes.
Handling - The CaymanS handles like no other car I have ever driven, including the 911, the balance of the mid engine and lower center of gravity make it incredibly tossable and also very forgiving. I think the CS has a better ride quality as a DD, the 1M is a little harsh when compared to the CS. The 1M is also a very good handling car however in stock form CS handling > 1M handling.
Seating position - Seats I would give the CS a slight edge in the comfort of the seats, the interior of the CS is smaller and feels more "fitted" to the driver, I think that the lower driving position and cockpit layout of the CS is better than the 1M.
Gearbox - Both cars have very good manual transmissions, the CS feels and sounds a little more mechanical and at times even "clunky" I would rate the 1M gearbox > CS gearbox.
Practicality as a DD - the 1M has 4 seats, the CS has 2 does that matter? The 1M has a larger truck however the CS has 2 storage locations and can fit much more cargo than you would expect, the 1M > CS for storage. Economy, let's face it both of these cars are very fuel efficient considering the performance they offer however the CS will easily give me mid to high 20's MPG while driving it like it was intended to be driven MPG CS > 1M. The CS requires more driver involvement and attention, it's easy to sit back in the 1M and just get where you are going, the CS can be a workout on long drives, 1M > CS.
Winter driving - hands down 1M, the CS is a little to low to deal with snow (and too darn pretty to get covered with slush) 1M > CS.

Conclusions - As a DD the 1M offers great performance, more usable space and also does not call attention to itself (to most other drivers) and would be my vote over the CaymanS if I was to choose only one of these two fine cars.

Good writeup and I would like to add some comments. Note that he has a 2006 Cayman S. The 2009 and newer ones are quite a bit faster as they have more power and are also available with PDK. A new Cayman S would be a driver's race in a straight line and if it has PDK the 1M would lose. Also, around a track I'm pretty sure the Cayman S would be as fast if not faster than the 1M.

Having said that there is no way I would take the Cayman S at this point if I were in your shoes. For one there are lots of them around. It will also lose aroun 50% of its value in 3-4 years whereas the 1M will not. It is always best to buy Porsche's used as they drop significant value the first 2-3 years. You can always go out and buy a Cayman later whereas it will be much tougher for you to find a 1M in the future should you go the route of the Cayman S. Oh, and the 1M would indeed be a much better daily driver practicality wise.

[HALOTHANE]

Punjabi M3: the 1M is faster (stock to stock) than the latest Cayman S, PDK or MT. On the street or the track. All the literature and our personal track experience supports this statement. Cheers.

[HALOTHANE]

Example from Top Gear test track:
BMW 1M: 1:25.0 (damp)
Cayman S: 1:26.7 (dry)

AutoBild 2011 sprint test:
BMW 1M: 4.6s
Cayman R: 4.8s

The Cayman R is faster on track, NOT the Cayman S. Hope these facts help, OP.

[MDORPHN]

I'm very happy with my 1M, but I did strongly consider getting a 2009 Cayman S in its place. Had I done so, I would have added TPC Racing's very sweet little turbo kit and some GT3 suspension pieces.

The 2009-on motor has a vastly improved oiling system and stands up much better to track (ab)use than the earlier versions.

Neil

[bdaddylo]

FWIW the '09 CS was 0.8 sec faster at VIR (C&D lightning lap data) and the '08 CS is 9 sec faster at the Nordschleife. Does this data really prove which car is better? Probably not. OP go drive a CS and determine for yourself. I agree with buying the CS used if you decide to go that route.

[Ender_]

Just to clarify I already made my choice I'm sticking with the 1M, the practicality of a CS just isn't there to be my only car right now.

I was just curious as to why all the write ups and comparisons with the Cayman are the R and not the S version which is much more suited to be compared with the 1M.

Thanks for the write ESC_OFF. Do you find that certain "je ne se quois" that everyone talks about with the 1M? - even when a number of reviews say the R is better and faster they would still take the 1M day to day because of the feel and excitement of it.

[wkndwrrr]

I thought long and hard about a Cayman S over a 1M as well. So I put a lot of seat time in my cousin's 2009 Cayman S MT, and my dad's 2010 Cayman S PDK.
The reason all car reviews have put the Cayman R up against the 1M and not the more price appropriate Cayman S is because the Cayman S simply is not nearly as fast.
Driver feel is subjective, a Cayman S just isn't as fast in a straight line, nor on a track.
A Cayman R mt is neck in neck on a track, really just a driver's race. A Cayman R pdk will allow it to edge out the 1M.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Ender_

I was just curious as to why all the write ups and comparisons with the Cayman are the R and not the S version which is much more suited to be compared with the 1M.

Because Porsche's marketing folks took back all of its Cayman S from its press fleet and replaced them with Cayman R in anticipation of comparison tests with the 1M.

I kid you not!

Neil

[ESC OFF]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Good writeup and I would like to add some comments. Note that he has a 2006 Cayman S. The 2009 and newer ones are quite a bit faster as they have more power and are also available with PDK. A new Cayman S would be a driver's race in a straight line and if it has PDK the 1M would lose. Also, around a track I'm pretty sure the Cayman S would be as fast if not faster than the 1M.

Having said that there is no way I would take the Cayman S at this point if I were in your shoes. For one there are lots of them around. It will also lose aroun 50% of its value in 3-4 years whereas the 1M will not. It is always best to buy Porsche's used as they drop significant value the first 2-3 years. You can always go out and buy a Cayman later whereas it will be much tougher for you to find a 1M in the future should you go the route of the Cayman S. Oh, and the 1M would indeed be a much better daily driver practicality wise.

Yes I do have a 2006, however the HP is comparable to the new CaymanS which is why I felt the comparison is valid. To be honest I never really understood any BMW 1 series comparison to a Cayman they are two completley different cars. As stated earlier the 1M is much better as a DD.

Originally Posted by Ender_

Just to clarify I already made my choice I'm sticking with the 1M, the practicality of a CS just isn't there to be my only car right now.

I was just curious as to why all the write ups and comparisons with the Cayman are the R and not the S version which is much more suited to be compared with the 1M.

Thanks for the write ESC_OFF. Do you find that certain "je ne se quois" that everyone talks about with the 1M? - even when a number of reviews say the R is better and faster they would still take the 1M day to day because of the feel and excitement of it.

In my opinion the CS is a more exciting car to drive than the 1M mostly because of the balanced handling, the CS is a scalpel, the 1M is a switchblade. A week or two with your new 1M and you'll never feel that you made a bad choice. Congrats on the new car!

[1Mpressive]

Originally Posted by ESC OFF

I'm posting my own honest opinions here nothing scientific just my experiences of both cars: I own a slightly modified 2006 CaymanS (Remus racing exhaust, IDP Intake Plenum, GT3 throttle body) this puts the HP at about 325, the car also has PASM which is an adjustable suspension module that lowers the car about 3/4 of and inch and stiffens the supsension on demand. I also own a 1M which was a replacement for my 135i (BMW PE, SSK and Cobb tuning - Stage 1).
Acceleraton - The CS and 135i in stock form would be about equal in acceleration, the tuned (Cobb) 135i would be quicker and would be about equal to the 1M, Stock 1M> Stock CaymanS in acceleration.
Brakes - The brakes on the CaymanS are about 90-95% as good as the brakes in the 1M, they have a better feel in my opinion however the 1M brakes have better stopping power at the limit, for all practical purposes as a DD 1M brakes = CS brakes.
Handling - The CaymanS handles like no other car I have ever driven, including the 911, the balance of the mid engine and lower center of gravity make it incredibly tossable and also very forgiving. I think the CS has a better ride quality as a DD, the 1M is a little harsh when compared to the CS. The 1M is also a very good handling car however in stock form CS handling > 1M handling.
Seating position - Seats I would give the CS a slight edge in the comfort of the seats, the interior of the CS is smaller and feels more "fitted" to the driver, I think that the lower driving position and cockpit layout of the CS is better than the 1M.
Gearbox - Both cars have very good manual transmissions, the CS feels and sounds a little more mechanical and at times even "clunky" I would rate the 1M gearbox > CS gearbox.
Practicality as a DD - the 1M has 4 seats, the CS has 2 does that matter? The 1M has a larger truck however the CS has 2 storage locations and can fit much more cargo than you would expect, the 1M > CS for storage. Economy, let's face it both of these cars are very fuel efficient considering the performance they offer however the CS will easily give me mid to high 20's MPG while driving it like it was intended to be driven MPG CS > 1M. The CS requires more driver involvement and attention, it's easy to sit back in the 1M and just get where you are going, the CS can be a workout on long drives, 1M > CS.
Winter driving - hands down 1M, the CS is a little to low to deal with snow (and too darn pretty to get covered with slush) 1M > CS.

Conclusions - As a DD the 1M offers great performance, more usable space and also does not call attention to itself (to most other drivers) and would be my vote over the CaymanS if I was to choose only one of these two fine cars.

I used to own a heavily modded Cayman S and can echo ESC Off's comments. I haven't gone balls out in my 1M yet, but with my seat time, the Bimmer is just a capable if not more so - it just gets there in a different way.

Think of the CS as a scalpel (refined) and the 1M as a razor blade (raw). Both are ultra sharp and cut with precision just one takes more skill to perform the job.

Just my $.02.

[MDORPHN]

OK, now I'm confused.

I got the part about the CS being a scalpel, but is the 1M a razor blade or a switchblade??

Neil

[superchargedman]

when i was originally deciding, i was torn between the 1m, the cayman s, and the gtr (used). the cayman is so pure. it's a beautiful sports car, but i wanted something i could drive every day and enjoy all year round in this crap canadian weather. the cayman really can't do that, but if i were in california, i'd probably go for the cayman. that leaves the gtr and the 1m. the gtr is like the m3 to me- just a bit too big and a bit too emotionless. they're ridiculously effective and precise machines, but they're machines. the 1m pulls at your heart strings, fits like a glove, has everyday and all year round practicality, and it comes with warranty and service, which the gtr wouldn't have provided me with. that's my .02.

[superchargedman]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

OK, now I'm confused.

I got the part about the CS being a scalpel, but is the 1M a razor blade or a switchblade??

Neil

the 1m is the cautery. it just burns right through with a little less precision than the scalpel, but it rips right through just about everything but my surgical gloves. buzz me! mmm, that sweet smell of burning tissue...i mean tires.

[Ender_]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Because Porsche's marketing folks took back all of its Cayman S from its press fleet and replaced them with Cayman R in anticipation of comparison tests with the 1M.

I kid you not!

Neil

This is kind of what I was getting at with the topic, that Porsche did this on purpose to not be out done or even close to BMW's lowly 1er.

That's what I've read in the other article as well - Porsche doesn't want the 1M compared to the S just the R.

[Dee Pee]

I struggled with this decision almost to the very hour that I went to get my 1M. At the price-point of a fully-loaded 1M, I was looking at a used 2009 CS. I put a lot of seat-time in the CS but was not able to do so in the 1M but the first time I sat in the thing I was sold.

Have a look at my summation:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...an#post9942859

[EINSER M]

my brother has a 2011 cayman S
drove it for an entire day
I had a 2008 135 and now a 2011 1M

my ranking goes

1M > R > 135 > S