Motor Trend Rips the 2er...

[Diver]

Originally Posted by potxoli

Hi,

I did not realize there were suspension changes with 2012 model year. Do you know exactly what changed compared to a 2011 or earlier?

Thanks!

As others said, the change was from progressive to linear springs. The ride probably got a bit stiffer. Body lean induced by the progressive springs made the understeer worse. Actually, I think the change was in 2011. Except for really hard core track applications just going up to a 225/40x18 tire in the front while staying with the stock size in the rear does a lot to tame understeer. In other words, use the same PSS tires in the sizes found on the M235i.

That and any tune, even the BMW PPK, and the result is very nice.

[mr.fabulous]

I think the factory ride/handling on my bone stock 2011 is *very* good (daily driver, no track). Point it and it goes there. Not a lot of feedback, but very capable.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

have you driven a 2er? or are you just estimating your repetitive judgmental opinion without even listening to WHY people don't like the 2er.

you're not better than the rest of us just because you are buying into the marketing....

Had a M235 for a weekend when doing the 235 435 thing. Also had a chance to swap cars with one at the PCD.

So yes I have a very good feel of what they can do compared to the 1 & on a road cross with the same driver a M235 will out run a 135is. In the 2014 C&D Lightning Laps the M235 was about 1/2 a second off the 1M in lap times & 6 full seconds faster than the 135.

Nothing against the 135is, I have one, but have no problem with the new car being quicker & better handling.

[aloksatoor]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

You put your finger on the top of the door handle where the fat piece is to lock it. stick your hand in the door handle to unlock

Why is this a bad thing my 2012 135 has this feature as well? works perfectly fine and is a great thing to have esp if you carrying groceries and wanna open the trunk.

[Spin_dry]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Had a M235 for a weekend when doing the 235 435 thing. Also had a chance to swap cars with one at the PCD.

So yes I have a very good feel of what they can do compared to the 1 & on a road cross with the same driver a M235 will out run a 135is. In the 2014 C&D Lightning Laps the M235 was about 1/2 a second off the 1M in lap times & 6 full seconds faster than the 135.

Nothing against the 135is, I have one, but have no problem with the new car being quicker & better handling.

I'm curious if the 2 is faster because of handling improvements or the extra HP (maybe both). How would it would perform against a 135is or a PPK 135?

I drove both and settled on a very low mileage 135. The 135 had a more raw edge. That's what I was going for in a play car. If it were my DD I'd have picked a 2.

[Fume]

Originally Posted by Spin_dry

I'm curious if the 2 is faster because of handling improvements or the extra HP (maybe both). How would it would perform against a 135is or a PPK 135?

I drove both and settled on a very low mileage 135. The 135 had a more raw edge. That's what I was going for in a play car. If it were my DD I'd have picked a 2.

Yeah. Also, a lot of the reviews seem to be comparing stock vs stock. But stock M235i comes with Michelin PSS which is way better than the run flats that came with the 1er. I wonder how much difference that makes.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Spin_dry

I'm curious if the 2 is faster because of handling improvements or the extra HP (maybe both). How would it would perform against a 135is or a PPK 135?

I drove both and settled on a very low mileage 135. The 135 had a more raw edge. That's what I was going for in a play car. If it were my DD I'd have picked a 2.

Both. Its still quicker than a 135is but close enough in a drag race that state of tune, traction, driver etc can change the result. Regardless the 235 will handle better so it will win a road race.

The raw edge thing can be deceiving. The quick way around a road course is "smooth"

In Lighting Laps 4.1 miles at VIR think about the:

1M doing 340? Advertised HP
3:06.6 @ Top Speed 133.9

M235 doing 320 Advertised HP
3:07.2 @ Top Speed 132.8

135i doing 300 Advertised HP
3:13.7 @ xxx

Don't have the speed data but IIRC it was mid/high 120's

[DSSG]

You have to have Comfort Access for the door gizmo to work.

[Spin_dry]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Both. Its still quicker than a 135is but close enough in a drag race that state of tune, traction, driver etc can change the result. Regardless the 235 will handle better so it will win a road race.

The raw edge thing can be deceiving. The quick way around a road course is "smooth"

In Lighting Laps 4.1 miles at VIR think about the:

1M doing 340? Advertised HP
3:06.6 @ Top Speed 133.9

M235 doing 320 Advertised HP
3:07.2 @ Top Speed 132.8

135i doing 300 Advertised HP
3:13.7 @ xxx

Don't have the speed data but IIRC it was mid/high 120's

I spent a day with each car before I made my decision. The raw comment may be subjective, but for me it was real. The 2 felt more refined. Too refined, IMO. It was my hard earned cask and I voted. Last comment has to do with vehicle's character. The 135 won it hands down for me. It's a total original look. Doesn't look like anything else on the road. I can't say that about the 2.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Spin_dry

I spent a day with each car before I made my decision. The raw comment may be subjective, but for me it was real. The 2 felt more refined. Too refined, IMO. It was my hard earned cask and I voted. Last comment has to do with vehicle's character. The 135 won it hands down for me. It's a total original look. Doesn't look like anything else on the road. I can't say that about the 2.

No problem everybody buys cars based on their own personal criteria. I was just speaking about the knee jerk 235 sucks thing.

Typically my personal choices are based on looks & real life performance.

I like to get new cars & don't have any problems letting then go when something new attracts me.

Have only had 3 long term keepers outside of the Ranger a 25 year keeper '67 StingRay Coupe & a 20 year keeper 280ZX that I converted into a convertible & a 13 year keeper 330Ci ZHP convert.

The 330 was replaced by the 135is

[BrokenVert]

Im with you OP. CA just doesnt work half the time on my i3. Its such a useless option.

As far as the motortrend thing goes, I believe that the M235 is 5K too much. The 135 started at $34500 in 2008, and I understand that inflation is a thing, but its not an 8K thing. I just dont see where the extra cost is coming from. I bought a BMW i3 a few months ago. The i3 starts at 41K. Im sorry, but I cant justify an M235 when I can buy a car with a Carbon Fiber Monocoque for less.

[FactorX81]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Im with you OP. CA just doesnt work half the time on my i3. Its such a useless option.

As far as the motortrend thing goes, I believe that the M235 is 5K too much. The 135 started at $34500 in 2008, and I understand that inflation is a thing, but its not an 8K thing. I just dont see where the extra cost is coming from. I bought a BMW i3 a few months ago. The i3 starts at 41K. Im sorry, but I cant justify an M235 when I can buy a car with a Carbon Fiber Monocoque for less.

I agree that it is a bit expensive but when compared to the tail end 135s its only marginally more for an arguably better package in terms of performance. I picked up my 135 in 09 for less than 36 ordered at the time it was a performance bargain. I don't think its fair to compare it to something like the i3 though they are completely different segments. The i3 btw is not a cf monocoque it is a cf shell for the passenger compartment with an aluminum frame with crumple zones etc. That is why it isn't like 70k.

[brocklanders]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Im with you OP. CA just doesnt work half the time on my i3. Its such a useless option.

As far as the motortrend thing goes, I believe that the M235 is 5K too much. The 135 started at $34500 in 2008, and I understand that inflation is a thing, but its not an 8K thing. I just dont see where the extra cost is coming from. I bought a BMW i3 a few months ago. The i3 starts at 41K. Im sorry, but I cant justify an M235 when I can buy a car with a Carbon Fiber Monocoque for less.

in 2013 base on a 135 was 39, 300.

[PopsnBurbles]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

No problem everybody buys cars based on their own personal criteria. I was just speaking about the knee jerk 235 sucks thing.

Typically my personal choices are based on looks & real life performance.

I like to get new cars & don't have any problems letting then go when something new attracts me.

Have only had 3 long term keepers outside of the Ranger a 25 year keeper '67 StingRay Coupe & a 20 year keeper 280ZX that I converted into a convertible & a 13 year keeper 330Ci ZHP convert.

The 330 was replaced by the 135is

Off topic but I would like to see some nice pics of those '67 Stingray and 280ZX. Those cars are SEXY! My friend has a 280ZX but let's just say it needs a lot of work. Despite that, I can see its aesthetic potential.

EDIT: at the people saying that they can't justify the price of an M235i, remember it's pretty much a direct replacement of the 135is. The 'is' starts around 42k/43k IIRC while the 135i at the time started at 40k.

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by Fume

Yeah. Also, a lot of the reviews seem to be comparing stock vs stock. But stock M235i comes with Michelin PSS which is way better than the run flats that came with the 1er. I wonder how much difference that makes.

Very good point. I've asked the same question several times. My 135i was transformed when I ditched the run-flats.

[Overpar56]

I did some snooping on the local BMW dealers websites list night. Over $46K for a 228ix? $92K for an M4 got my attention too.

Waiting for a used CPO makes sense.


http://www.bmwstore.com/new/BMW/2015...b7e440d884.htm

[mr.fabulous]

Originally Posted by Qunadry

Very good point. I've asked the same question several times. My 135i was transformed when I ditched the run-flats.

What are you running on now? My 135i has run-flats and I have nothing to compare them to, but they're so goddamn expensive I'm thinking I could do a good replacement and add a BavAuto spare kit for the same price.

[BLU135i]

Originally Posted by DSSG

How ridiculous! This is technological progress?

BTW, it is a loaner, and BMW didn't provide me with an owner's manual.

Incidentally I enabled daytime running lights, but they don't work unless I push a little bar below the light switch.

I see all of this stuff as overly complicated, and it doesn't add anything to my driving enjoyment or experience.

I'll be happy to return this heap back to BMW!

There is something that solves all of your confusion and it called an owners manual. Read it. Honestly welcome to the 21st century. I have had comfort access on three of my BMW's now and I love it. Walk up to the car grab the door handle and it unlocks, get out of the car and touch the door handle and it locks.....the keys never come out of my pocket. Yes that's a little thing that does not take much effort but when my hands are full its a god send. The only time I have an issue with CA is if my cell phone and the key fob are in the same pocket. It interferes somehow. but I hate my keys scratching my phone so its rare that they go in the same pocket anyway. Hopefully car manufactures start using your cell phone instead of keys. The start/stop function, like it or not is here to stay. You can thank the your government rep and the EPA for that. If you don't like it that much....turn it off. My x3 had the first year of the start/stop function and I had to get it coded to stay off between drives. Now its an option in the idrive settings menu. That little bar below the light switch sounds like the fog lights, not daytime running lights. You can access the DTR lights via the idrive in the settings menu. Like it or not all these things are here to stay and as time moves on they will move from being options to standard. I think the newer BMW's are coming with idrive even if you don't have GPS. Personally I'm a tech whore (my avatar explains that) so I love it all. Had a x3 loner last week with a HUD and I was in heaven. Anything to make life just a little easier goes a long way with me. Then again, I don't have a hard time adapting to change or new things.

[mr.fabulous]

Do the 1 and 2 share any body panels?

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by mr.fabulous

What are you running on now? My 135i has run-flats and I have nothing to compare them to, but they're so goddamn expensive I'm thinking I could do a good replacement and add a BavAuto spare kit for the same price.

I'm running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's in stock size. I also have the BavAuto spare which is the spare tire kit BMW sells for M3's. I waited 2 years before getting rid of the run-flats and I'm kicking myself for waiting.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by FactorX81

I agree that it is a bit expensive but when compared to the tail end 135s its only marginally more for an arguably better package in terms of performance. I picked up my 135 in 09 for less than 36 ordered at the time it was a performance bargain. I don't think its fair to compare it to something like the i3 though they are completely different segments. The i3 btw is not a cf monocoque it is a cf shell for the passenger compartment with an aluminum frame with crumple zones etc. That is why it isn't like 70k.

Yeah, you're right. Its a body on frame design. Its just a CF body and an aluminum frame. It doesn't change my point though. The i3 has much more advanced (and expensive) materials and construction and still somehow less than a car with a carryover engine.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

in 2013 base on a 135 was 39, 300.

I checked my math, in 2013 money a 2008 135 based at 39k. I didn't expect inflation yo account for that much money.

I wish that my paycheck went up by that much