Visa says Dealer has to accept my card as payment for my BMW. Anyone been told NO !?

RastaGurl · 05-20-2008, 12:31 PM

So, after finally listening to everyone, and reading, and re-reading the fine print, it turns out that the dealer/SA is correct in saying that there is no surcharge for the use of convenience checks......FOR THEM! There is a surcharge of 1.75 - 3% of the amount of the convenience check (depending on the CC company), which is charged to the consumer. In addition, the use of convenience checks does not accrue points, miles, etc. Bummer. I guess I'll suck it up and pay the maximum allowed by the stealer on a CC. I don't think I'll argue the whole violation of the Visa agreement point, as they'll end up servicing the car, and I'd prefer to maintain the congenial relationship I currently have with them.

BullishMB · 05-20-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwillcutts

understood. thanks. Everyone needs to watch that carefully, credit cards will give you credit limits, but if you use too much of it, it looks bad on your credit score. Luckily, my credit limit gives me plenty of room to do this without negatively impact my credit score.

$400,000 limit must be nice. As I believe the credit agencies look for 10% and under utilization.

Another aspect that negatively effects your score is a high overall balance on revolving credit. I think they look for $1000 and under.

ARES45 · 05-20-2008, 12:44 PM

I was hoping someone would make the dealer honor their contract. I couldn't get away with violating the terms of my contract with the dealer without incurring many excess fees and a hit to my credit score, so why can they get away with choosing to not stick to the terms of thier contract?

buckwheat986 · 05-20-2008, 01:10 PM

[quote=ARES45;147335]I was hoping someone would make the dealer honor their contract. quote]

Please show me where in this thread a dealer did not honor their contract?

ARES45 · 05-20-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwillcutts

I'm planning on paying for my car with a VISA card which offers me 0% interest for 12 months on new purchases.

On another thread we got into a discussion that Dealers won't accept VISA to pay for the whole car because they get hit with transaction fees from VISA.

Has anyone had a dealer refuse to accept a VISA card to pay for the whole car ? (not just the deposit) They may not like it, but they have to accept VISA as payment if they accept VISA cards at all (and who doesn't?).

At 0% for 12 months, paying by credit card saves me about $1,700 versus a $40,000 loan at 4.25%. Seems like the smart cash-management thing to do.:wink:

I did call Visa and they confirmed that the car dealer CANNOT refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car, and the dealer CANNOT place a Maximum (or minimum) Transaction amount limit per the "Rules for VISA Merchants":
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan..._merchants.pdf
Attached Images

Maybe you missed the first post. My english is rusty, does "CANNOT refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car" mean they can refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car?

By the way that was the first post. And according to Visa who wrote the Rules for Visa Merchants the dealer would have to accept Visa for all transactions. It would be like going to Best Buy and them not accepting cards for TVs. If they will accept a $1 charge they have to accept a $40,000 charge.

Jack in Jax · 05-20-2008, 01:28 PM

"And according to Visa who wrote the Rules for Visa Merchants the dealer would have to accept Visa for all transactions."

That's not exaclty what VISA says (see the extended text of their rules above). They must accept a CC for goods priced normally and cannot adjust the price upward if the CC is offered. If the dealer is offering the product at less than MSRP, the rules appear to permit more leeway to the Merchant.

Jack

ARES45 · 05-20-2008, 01:38 PM

True enough Jack, however for pwillcuts he would stand to make a better deal by purchasing at msrp and using a card than taking the 500 dollar discount. Either way, the dealer will make money on the deal, so I don't feel sorry for them in the least. It is simply the cost of doing business. Maybe if he got a substantial discount but 500 dollars was no real gift from the dealer. At any rate, that is the negotiated price so I feel the dealer should take the card at that price. Whether it was marked Cash or Finance on the buyers order.

*edit* Also, 'priced normally' doesn't necessarily mean msrp, if the average buyer pays less than msrp then wouldn't the normal price be below msrp? It goes on to say they can't adjust the price upward if the CC is offered. I don't necessarily think this means the dealer doesn't have to accept the card, I think it means they can't jack up the price.

Dan203 · 05-20-2008, 01:39 PM

The only leeway they seem to have is that they are allowed to offer "cash discounts". So if you got the car for less then MSRP then they can simply claim that is the cash discount. I'm paying full MSRP for my car, so if they give me any crap over using my Visa for my $10K down payment then I'll make sure to bring up this point. At the very least I'm hoping I can use it to negotiate some free swag, like floor mats and an aluminum pedal kit.

Dan

buckwheat986 · 05-20-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARES45

Maybe you missed the first post. My english is rusty, does "CANNOT refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car" mean they can refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car?

By the way that was the first post. And according to Visa who wrote the Rules for Visa Merchants the dealer would have to accept Visa for all transactions. It would be like going to Best Buy and them not accepting cards for TVs. If they will accept a $1 charge they have to accept a $40,000 charge.

I agree...if the contract you have with the dealer does not indeed state a cash deal....which the OP's does...

if you wrote out a contract for a CC deal they would have to take the CC...but they would not have to give a discount....

buckwheat986 · 05-20-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

The only leeway they seem to have is that they are allowed to offer "cash discounts". So if you got the car for less then MSRP then they can simply claim that is the cash discount. I'm paying full MSRP for my car, so if they give me any crap over using my Visa for my $10K down payment then I'll make sure to bring up this point. At the very least I'm hoping I can use it to negotiate some free swag, like floor mats and an aluminum pedal kit.

Dan

you make a good point...but let me ask this...

is the dealer required to take as much as a down payment as the buyer likes?????

ARES45 · 05-20-2008, 01:47 PM

There is no option for CC, so what was the OP supposed to do? The dealer should have this as an option on their standard contract because it is a viable payment option do to their merchant agreement. Its absence creates room for the buyer to assume that a CC payment falls into the Cash catagory because it is not a car loan or dealer financing. I see this as the dealer trying to pull a fast one on uninformed consumers and therefore if an informed consumer stops by, the dealer can eat crow for all I care.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

To you it doesn't matter...but if the OP marked down this was a cash deal and tries to pay with a CC the dealer IMO has every right to tear up the contract.

Cash to me is interpeted as money, or bank check or wire transfer. You may argue a CC is cash. Maybe? Maybe not?

Thats what the courts are for. But to say the dealer has no leg to stand on w/o seeing the buyers contract is ludircous.

Cash, in legal speak, means that the dealer will not be supplying financing.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red135

Went to the dealer today to pick up the car, told the finance guy I wanted to put the down payment on my Visa, whipped out the merchant rules paper I took with me, he still said no.

I would call VISA and they will discontinue allowing the dealship to accpet the card at all.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwillcutts

good point! My deal is $500 below MSRP, which I guess the dealer can now tell VISA is the "cash sale" special offer to me.

Then again, I'd be saving $1,700 in interest costs over the 12 months if the dealer will allow me to use my VISA (with my 0% interest offer for 12 months at VISA).

$500 versus $1,700..........hmmmm...

<gulp> I'd be better offer paying full boat MSRP wouldn't I ?:biggrin:

That would have to be explicitly written into the purchase contract with the definition of a "cash sale"

ARES45 · 05-20-2008, 01:54 PM

Rightous Jewpac.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullishMB

$400,000 limit must be nice. As I believe the credit agencies look for 10% and under utilization.

Another aspect that negatively effects your score is a high overall balance on revolving credit. I think they look for $1000 and under.

Thats not just credit extended by a CC company, that would include any personal lines of credit as well.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

I agree...if the contract you have with the dealer does not indeed state a cash deal....which the OP's does...

if you wrote out a contract for a CC deal they would have to take the CC...but they would not have to give a discount....

Cash in legal speak is not the same as cash in leymans speak.

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARES45

Rightous Jewpac.

Ive been out of town, just catching up.

Red135 · 05-20-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewpac

I would call VISA and they will discontinue allowing the dealship to accpet the card at all.

In progress.

buckwheat986 · 05-20-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewpac

Cash, in legal speak, means that the dealer will not be supplying financing.

sorry...that is not universal....

a cash contract could be interpeted as meaning you bring cash and only cash....and at the dealer discretion they may accept a certified bank check or wire transfer....

like i posted earlier...each state is different and it's open to interpertation...

but you not going to screw the dealer using VISA on your side if you marked down a cash deal....

Jewpac · 05-20-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

sorry...that is not universal....

a cash contract could be interpeted as meaning you bring cash and only cash....and at the dealer discretion they may accept a certified bank check or wire transfer....

like i posted earlier...each state is different and it's open to interpertation...

but you not going to screw the dealer using VISA on your side if you marked down a cash deal....

No, that is not the case. In a legal contract cash, in absence of other upfront payment options, means that the dealer will be paid in full, meaning they will not be responsible for providing financing, at the time of delivery. If the dealer does not accept the card they is subject to legal action based on the signed contract.

buckwheat986 · 05-20-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewpac

No, that is not the case. In a legal contract cash, in absence of other upfront payment options, means that the dealer will be paid in full, meaning they will not be responsible for providing financing, at the time of delivery. If the dealer does not accept the card they is subject to legal action based on the signed contract.

Again, that is the way you interpet it...other states and other courts may feel differently....

i say, and as others have already detailed here...the dealer can refuse the payment by CC...i say especially if you sign a contract for cash payment....

i have posted this before...I have seen many people write and ask about paying for a car totally with a credit card...and they include the threats to the dealer...

so far I have never seen one poster come back and say they were able to do it....where's all the legal action?

05-20-2008, 12:31 PM	#89
RastaGurl Private 1 Rep 90 Posts Drives: Join Date: May 2008 iTrader: (0)	So, after finally listening to everyone, and reading, and re-reading the fine print, it turns out that the dealer/SA is correct in saying that there is no surcharge for the use of convenience checks......FOR THEM! There is a surcharge of 1.75 - 3% of the amount of the convenience check (depending on the CC company), which is charged to the consumer. In addition, the use of convenience checks does not accrue points, miles, etc. Bummer. I guess I'll suck it up and pay the maximum allowed by the stealer on a CC. I don't think I'll argue the whole violation of the Visa agreement point, as they'll end up servicing the car, and I'd prefer to maintain the congenial relationship I currently have with them.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2008, 12:44 PM	#91
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	I was hoping someone would make the dealer honor their contract. I couldn't get away with violating the terms of my contract with the dealer without incurring many excess fees and a hit to my credit score, so why can they get away with choosing to not stick to the terms of thier contract? __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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05-20-2008, 01:10 PM	#92
buckwheat986 Lieutenant 12 Rep 468 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	[quote=ARES45;147335]I was hoping someone would make the dealer honor their contract. quote] Please show me where in this thread a dealer did not honor their contract?
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05-20-2008, 01:28 PM	#94
Jack in Jax Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 226 Posts Drives: Pearson 424 Ketch Join Date: May 2008 Location: Jacksonville FL iTrader: (0)	"And according to Visa who wrote the Rules for Visa Merchants the dealer would have to accept Visa for all transactions." That's not exaclty what VISA says (see the extended text of their rules above). They must accept a CC for goods priced normally and cannot adjust the price upward if the CC is offered. If the dealer is offering the product at less than MSRP, the rules appear to permit more leeway to the Merchant. Jack
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05-20-2008, 01:38 PM	#95
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	True enough Jack, however for pwillcuts he would stand to make a better deal by purchasing at msrp and using a card than taking the 500 dollar discount. Either way, the dealer will make money on the deal, so I don't feel sorry for them in the least. It is simply the cost of doing business. Maybe if he got a substantial discount but 500 dollars was no real gift from the dealer. At any rate, that is the negotiated price so I feel the dealer should take the card at that price. Whether it was marked Cash or Finance on the buyers order. edit Also, 'priced normally' doesn't necessarily mean msrp, if the average buyer pays less than msrp then wouldn't the normal price be below msrp? It goes on to say they can't adjust the price upward if the CC is offered. I don't necessarily think this means the dealer doesn't have to accept the card, I think it means they can't jack up the price. __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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05-20-2008, 01:39 PM	#96
Dan203 Lieutenant Colonel 136 Rep 1,592 Posts Drives: 2016 340i xDrive Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Carson City, NV iTrader: (1)	The only leeway they seem to have is that they are allowed to offer "cash discounts". So if you got the car for less then MSRP then they can simply claim that is the cash discount. I'm paying full MSRP for my car, so if they give me any crap over using my Visa for my $10K down payment then I'll make sure to bring up this point. At the very least I'm hoping I can use it to negotiate some free swag, like floor mats and an aluminum pedal kit. Dan
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05-20-2008, 01:47 PM	#99
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	There is no option for CC, so what was the OP supposed to do? The dealer should have this as an option on their standard contract because it is a viable payment option do to their merchant agreement. Its absence creates room for the buyer to assume that a CC payment falls into the Cash catagory because it is not a car loan or dealer financing. I see this as the dealer trying to pull a fast one on uninformed consumers and therefore if an informed consumer stops by, the dealer can eat crow for all I care. __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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05-20-2008, 01:54 PM	#103
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	Rightous Jewpac. __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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