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      05-05-2020, 11:15 PM   #1
frenzy757
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Installing new turbos...ideas?

Going to be upgrading turbos. Not sure if I will DIY and just call it my COVID build or not, but basically checking in here to see what else I should cover while the subframe is out and the car is taken apart (also any recommendations for parts/brands to use).

As for the turbos, I really want to focus on throttle response as this is a track and daily car as well. I don't need 500+hp. As of now, I'd rather stay at or near stock power.

My requirements:
1) Reliability - don't want to replace these again
2) Throttle response
3) CA smog legal. I think this should mostly be ok with the twins since it will pass visual and the OBD2 test we have now (can someone confirm)
4) Power up to 500 one day would be nice, but #1 and #2 are my top 2 priorities.

Not going single.

Any ideas? I hear RB and Vargas are the 2 leading ones? Any thoughts to my #2 requirement for the stg 2s? Or have the OEM mitsu ones fixed the wastegate for good and can handle 400-450hp.


Other mods/items to take care of?
PO did the water pump already so prob don't need to do that.
Motor mounts? Any thoughts there?
Can replace bushings.
Will also do brake rotors as they are near cracked.
Will also prob change oilpan gasket.

Thanks for your inputs
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      05-06-2020, 02:58 AM   #2
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Hi frenzy757, I currently run Pure Turbos Stage 2 on my 1M for 4 years now, and IMO i think in terms of reliability they are the best. Vargas have lots of failure documented online, RBs i think a few too. I kept my car on stock turbos for 5 years until Pure came out with their stage 2 in 2016.

So far, it's been running strong, i've been easily getting 6s flat for 100-200km/h, if i push hard and shift properly, 5.6-5.8 secs. And running pump gas & 100% meth with dual CM7 nozzles.

Heres my documentation on my thread:

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1231947
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      05-07-2020, 02:20 AM   #3
frenzy757
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How's the turbo lag? I don't need much more power. Really want low turbo lag and reliable wastegates.
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      05-07-2020, 01:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenzy757 View Post
How's the turbo lag? I don't need much more power. Really want low turbo lag and reliable wastegates.
I don't think the turbos are the problem my understanding is that it's the wastegates and oil lines that fail. Dinan sells rebuilt stock turbos with upgraded wastegates and there is a great DIY and parts kit from ECS that covers all of the things that you should replace when you do that. I agree with you I don't want lag for more power so I would explore the Stock turbos with improved wastegates. Just a thought.
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      05-07-2020, 01:58 PM   #5
frenzy757
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Gotchya.

I was assuming/hoping that the RB/Vargas/Pure stg 1 or so would keep most of the stock OEM turbo characteristics and provide the benefit of a "OEM + Wastegate" but also provide the ability to get more power?

I am talking with ECS as well and got recommended the pure stg 1 for my needs. I've been searching for Dynos for these turbos with just basic FBO mods and no crazy tune but can't find it so not sure how much lag if any the pure stg 1 adds.
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      07-05-2020, 03:27 AM   #6
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I'm at around 450ps with GC lites and in hindsight I should have gotten smaller turbos. At this level of power you really want to keep the stock outlet as well as double walled manifold. Im running 18psi on turbos that can do mid-20s, and the only thing I'm getting in return is slightly better reliability and lower iats on track. The cast manifold emit alot of heat into the engine bay, and the outlet situation is not ideal with GCs.

You will get more turbo lag no matter what upgraded turbos you go for. Some people may not realize this because they do downpipes at the same time they upgrade turbos. Less back-pressure wins some spool back. Anyhow, what you get in return is a more exciting top end. But don't set your expectations too high. Even if you custom tune towards a flat torque curve, you will never be able to have a tune that pulls harder and harder towards red-line.

I support your idea of getting something "stg 1" whatever that is. Or just settle with "stg 0", ie upgraded OEM, and enjoy the convenience of OTS tunes. It takes alot of time to tune a car properly and I am not sure I would want go through that again if I were to start over. Its been two years and almost 50 map revisions for me. And fact is that no matter how much power you get, you get used to it sooner or later and want more unless you direct your hobby towards something else.
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      07-09-2020, 11:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I don't think the turnos are the problem my understanding is that it's the wastegates and oil lines that fail. Dinan sells rebuilt stock turbos with upgrades wastegates and there is a great DIY and parts kit from ECS that covers all of the things that you should replace when you do that. I agree with you I don't want lag for more power so I would explore the Stock turbos with improved wastegates. Just a thought.
That sounds like the way to go when the time comes for me.
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      07-14-2020, 01:25 PM   #8
frenzy757
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Yea just to update the thread and I'll do a build thread maybe:

Decided to just get new OEM turbos.
Also decided to change out the entire cooling system, new oil pan gasket, install new motor and trans mount (OEM for motor, e46 m3 for the trans), and upgrade the radiator to a CSF one.

Basically changing out parts for things that require a subframe removal.

I am posting on my IG (just so I have documentation and can look back at it) @slowinslowout if you wanted to follow along on the long process of taking the car apart and putting it all back together.



*EDIT* I already have the turbos off and the wastegate is stuck on the front turbo. It feels like it is catching some metal or something. I could probably have repaired it, but considering the work it took, I am fine just getting some brand new OEMs in there and I'll have the extra set as a core charge in the future if I upgrade the turbos.
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      07-15-2020, 01:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenzy757 View Post
Yea just to update the thread and I'll do a build thread maybe:

Decided to just get new OEM turbos.
Also decided to change out the entire cooling system, new oil pan gasket, install new motor and trans mount (OEM for motor, e46 m3 for the trans), and upgrade the radiator to a CSF one.

Basically changing out parts for things that require a subframe removal.

I am posting on my IG (just so I have documentation and can look back at it) @slowinslowout if you wanted to follow along on the long process of taking the car apart and putting it all back together.



*EDIT* I already have the turbos off and the wastegate is stuck on the front turbo. It feels like it is catching some metal or something. I could probably have repaired it, but considering the work it took, I am fine just getting some brand new OEMs in there and I'll have the extra set as a core charge in the future if I upgrade the turbos.
I dont know if too late, but I highly recommend against spending money on the CSF radiator. It is not an upgrade. For 1M you just upgrade the aux radiator to increase the cooling area available instead. The CSF rad does not increase area, which is what you need. I tried running up to 8cm thick radiator up front on my car and it doesnt really help. The only thing that helps is increasing the total area.
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      07-15-2020, 06:34 PM   #10
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This thread may be taking a detour, but who makes a good upgrade for the accessory radiator? Is the plumbing to and from adequate to support a larger core over there?

I will be getting some logs on my track day this week so ADE can recommend an upgraded oil cooler, which will be installed with a bypass plate in place of the stock oil thermostat housing, larger lines and externally adjustable thermostat. The stock thermostat and lines don't flow enough to support a significantly larger oil cooler, and the external adjustability will let me dial in street and track settings so that oil temps reach target on the street without overheating at the track.

I can't help but wonder if a larger coolant radiator may also suffer from limited flow reducing its effectiveness.
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      07-15-2020, 11:09 PM   #11
frenzy757
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not sure, but I have heard nothing but good things about the CSF one so I figured why not. Only thing about the CSF is it is thicker so if you have aftermarket inlets it might be an issue. But I am keeping those stock for now anyways so I figure I'd try it out.

I'd also be interested in the aux coolers for both rad and oilif people have recs on those. Seems you can upgrade those without subframe removal.
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      07-17-2020, 10:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
This thread may be taking a detour, but who makes a good upgrade for the accessory radiator? Is the plumbing to and from adequate to support a larger core over there?

I will be getting some logs on my track day this week so ADE can recommend an upgraded oil cooler, which will be installed with a bypass plate in place of the stock oil thermostat housing, larger lines and externally adjustable thermostat. The stock thermostat and lines don't flow enough to support a significantly larger oil cooler, and the external adjustability will let me dial in street and track settings so that oil temps reach target on the street without overheating at the track.

I can't help but wonder if a larger coolant radiator may also suffer from limited flow reducing its effectiveness.
I am not aware that there are any kits out there. I just had my aux radiators custom made according to a hand drawing. Total cost was less than a new CSF rad, but Im in China...

Attached is the family picture. One sits at the normal aux rad location, the other sits below the main radiator behind the FMIC.

I dont think you need to worry too much about the hose ID. I did up-size a bit because someone recommended that, but on the 1M I would just use the OEM hoses in order not to run the risk of breaking any plastic fittings.
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      07-18-2020, 11:31 AM   #13
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Regarding the CSF stuff here are a few other data points:

User Berns' 135i build: shorturl.at/hqyAP
-it was interesting that the E9x M3 transmission cooler (CSF #8042) can be used as a plug-and-play replacement for the 1M aux oil cooler.

This guy did a detailed install writeup with performance assessment of the radiator:
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/my-th...ato-1745809742

And finally, I recently came across a great series of DIYs by a guy over at 1addicts:
CSF radiator: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1714573
ER dual oil cooler: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1722168
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