How often do you completely disable traction control?

[TridenTBoy]

Since I don't have a LSD, I don't usually turn mine off. When I've driven cars with an LSD, I've had a lot more confidence turning off (or when there just isn't any) traction control. When there isn't one... the unpredictability just kind of skyrockets.

Anyway, I'm having issues now with one particular turn that I frequent every day where I come in so damn hot, brake hard, then am trail braking into the turn and then trying to just rage the gas on the way out but the power just gets COMPLETELY cut until I am out of the turn and going straight (even then, it is *STILL* cut) and this is with the traction control in the "sport" mode (you press the button once). It's aggravating beyond belief because the damn thing just stops putting anything down. It's like I am just coasting, absolutely no power at all. And I *know* that it can put power down in some capacity.

[Dogeeseegod]

I turn mine off after I start the car. No DTC or DSC for me, please. I wish it would stay in the last position it was left, honestly :P

[Thunderguts]

Q: How often do I disable it?

A: Any time I want to have fun i.e., daily.

[rowsdower]

Every time I drive the car. Like above, I wish default was completely off. I would like to be able to turn it on with the dash button on that very rare occasion when I want traction control on. Billions of people drove trillions of miles before ABS, traction control, stability control, etc. I’m not arguing they aren’t beneficial, but turning them off isn’t that big a deal. You will be fine with it off.

The big caveat is that you have to drive the car appropriately! You describe coming into turns too hot and trying to get on the gas too early. I would suggest doing a track day / HPDE with all assists off. You will learn a tremendous amount about brake and throttle control, and how tire temperature affects grip. If you’re going to drive that way on the street, you really owe it to yourself to do at least one HPDE. Apologies in advance if you have track experience and I’m making a jump here, I have no clue.

[axsuu]

I disable it pretty much every time I go for a drive in the winter.

On ice and snow it keeps tapping the brakes on the tiniest of slides and causes premature brake wear and in worst cases warped discs.

During summer time I very rarely turn it off even though I get the occasional one tire fire on some highway on-ramps and the power gets cut off.

[Thunderguts]

Originally Posted by axsuu

I disable it pretty much every time I go for a drive in the winter.

To me, traction control makes the car more dangerous in slippery conditions because I never know what to expect. A little wheelspin won't hurt any decent driver, but a sudden drop in power may. I can accelerate much faster with a little wheelspin than I can when the system kills all power. The system is FAR too sensitive.

I vastly prefer the crude system in my Mustang. It has an LSD and I can light up the rears for about 2 seconds before traction control finally cuts power. I rarely turn that system off because I can get away with so much more before it grabs the engine by the balls.

[Captain Blood]

If its raining I leave it alone. When wanting to have fun, I turn it off!

[zx10guy]

I see you're in San Francisco. Might this one turn be somewhere along Lombard Street? LOL.

[iminhell1]

Rarely.
Get more power and questionable traction. You'll change your tune.


But to remedy your throttle cut, apply less throttle and go smoother on the steering, it won't cut you off. Once you learn how the system intervenes you'll learn that you're driving wrong. Smooth is fast and that is how the system is programmed.


Fair read,
http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/01/dino-project-car/

[02Pilot]

I turn it off regularly once I mount my snow tires. The high soft sidewalls (I run -1 16" rims in the winter) and the hypersensitive DSC combine to shut off my cruise control under acceleration from time to time, which is very annoying. DTC mode seems to address the problem most of the time, but I usually just turn it off completely.

Agreed, however, that in dry conditions smooth is fast, and that activating the DSC is generally an indication that you're not doing it right. In low-traction situations where you want to rotate the car intentionally to maintain momentum, well, then the DSC has to go.

[Dogeeseegod]

I'm in it for fun, not fast. I seriously have no one to compete with on my commute so the powerslides, single tire fire exits and overloaded cornering are what makes it exciting!

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Rarely.
Get more power and questionable traction. You'll change your tune.


But to remedy your throttle cut, apply less throttle and go smoother on the steering, it won't cut you off. Once you learn how the system intervenes you'll learn that you're driving wrong. Smooth is fast and that is how the system is programmed.


Fair read,
http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/01/dino-project-car/

Well-said!

I drive pretty much every day with it on. I don't bug it, it doesn't bug me.

Still, when I know I'm going to have a lot of issues with it, I turn it off (mostly).

[mfindigital]

Very rarely, I hate that it cuts the sport button throttle response down to regular throttle response, which is trash.

[JimVonBaden]

Pretty much never.

[JimD]

I have never turned it completely off but I have put it into the in between position in several autocrosses. If I ever get good enough that it will really help me significantly to turn it off, I might. But it isn't really limiting me at this point.

I've driven for longer than some of you and had many cars without stability control. I never wrecked because I did not have it. But I see it flicker occasionally and my conclusion is I got a bit further towards a skid than I should have on the street.

I did a 2 day M school in 2011. It was all done in M mode which is like the in between position on my car. I managed to get the M3 sideways on the track in M mode. That isn't a terrible tragedy but it makes everybody else slow down until you get pointed in the right direction.

The only times we turned it off completely were wet skidpad exercises. In one, you turned it off and an instructor would grab the parking brake and introduce a violent oversteer. You had to catch it three time in a row to get to try drifting the skidpad. I got my 3 fairly quickly but never drifted the entire circle. My issue was the concrete went from smooth to rough and I could not see the transitions. So if I was going fine on the rough and hit the smooth I would spin. If I was drifting along fine on the smooth and hit the rough I would stop drifting. I knew I needed to modulate with the throttle but couldn't do it quick enough consistently.

Another place we turned it off was on the figure 8 exercise on a wet skid pad. You drove the M car in a figure 8 shaped route around cones on opposite sides of the track. I figured out that the quickest route was to drift around the cones at each end so the front traveled the minimum distance and the rear dust rotated around. Then when the rear was positioned you reduced throttle to get it to hook up and raced to the other side to repeat. This was a rare case where drifting was actually quicker. It was the only exercise I beat the other guys in my sub-group.

Last comment, I live in SC so I get to do an autocross or two a year on the BMW performance center track, same track I M schooled on. I haven't done it in several years now but the only car I saw get significantly damaged was a Z4M that the owner had switched stability off on. There is a metal guard rail on the mini-Laguna Seca hill that we do uphill and he T-boned the guard rail. You have to be seriously out of control to do that. He just popped all the plastic pieces in the front end apart but several of us had to help him pop them back into semi-position before he could drive off the track.

Turning it completely off can have unintended consequences. On the street I see no point (but I would do it in a vacant parking lot on snow if I still lived in snow country) and on the track, the in-between mode is fine for me.

[1and1]

FWIW, I think this is more than a simple on or off conversation- I believe there are several variables involved including but not limited to
135 or 128
tuned/modified to increase power, or stock
suspension/traction improvements/changes, or stock
driver skill, both overall and with the platform specifically
driver preference- loose, tight, and the million variations of...


I'm sure we could find more to consider...

I find myself on opposing ends of this spectrum-
-recovering from almost 15 years of wonderful AWD traction
-almost detrimental love of torque based acceleration
-preference for a looser that average driving feel- don't mind a touch of spin/drift
----tempered by the "please don't kill me" nanny is a bit of alright...

With 425 AWD HP to the wheel, I was fine with no TC. Now that I'm living in the RWD world I'm finding it's taking longer than expected to retrain my right foot- used to just wail on 2nd gear coming out of a tight corner and freaking launch down the straight, but do that now and things quickly end up facing the wrong direction.

So, the TL : DR version- I bounce back and forth between one click or full on. I like to play with TIM YOYO, but, pun intended, things can get sideways really quick if I'm not cautious- bad way to be on public roads...

[TridenTBoy]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Rarely.
Get more power and questionable traction. You'll change your tune.


But to remedy your throttle cut, apply less throttle and go smoother on the steering, it won't cut you off. Once you learn how the system intervenes you'll learn that you're driving wrong. Smooth is fast and that is how the system is programmed.


Fair read,
http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/01/dino-project-car/

Compared to some other cars I've driven, this is one of the most invasive I've found though. Others have let me continue to put power down as I slide through a turn. Admittedly, some of them have their other faults.

I'm not trying to be smooth (or "fast") in most of these cases, I'm trying to have some fun without sending it off a cliff.

[desertman123]

Probably more than I should

[xQx]

Before I got the LSD, I found the car to be undrivable with any setting other than it completely off. Both in stock form, and especially after I'd done a stage 2 tune.
I would get dangerous power cuts exiting any corner - I found it was much safer to just let one wheel spin.

Now, with sticky tires and the LSD, I find the 'single push' setting to be most useful for daily driving. My JB4 automatically changes it to this setting every time I start the car. I find this lets the back step out slightly, then catches the car pretty much exactly where I would try to catch it if I were driving without any aids.

I only ever turn it off when I'm in the car alone, with the roof down and generally on a wet road. Essentially when I want to practice my 'throw and catch' capabilities in this finicky little beast. Even with 3 years experience with my car and a proper racing LSD, I find the 135i a real handful to powerslide on public roads.

[Gangplank]

I do wish you could code the level more easily. That said with suspension upgrades, diff bracket & 225/255 tires I find it cuts in less or less unpredictable.

[JimD]

I will add another example of why I do not turn it completely off. Years ago, before Mustangs had stability control I got one as a rental in Minneapolis. I had appointments downtown and it had snowed overnight. The roads were fine but still had a little snow and frost on them. I was having fun drifting each corner on the way to my first appointment until I drifted a bit too far in the middle of an intersection. It was early and traffic was light but I had to get straightened out quickly when the light changed for people coming the other way.

I can catch oversteer but I don't think public roads with other people using them is the right place to do this. It is hard to tell exactly how much traction you have and if you go a bit far, it can end up worse than it has for me so far.

[chris_flies]

One thing I'll add; when I coded the DSC module for my LSD (eDiff disable, brake nannies, etc.), I played with the "understeer" coefficient setting, first setting it to a 135i level (very little effect), and then to the 1M level (very good effect). In DTC mode (one tap of the button) the car now allows a good deal more yaw and a little more wheelspin before stepping-in, and when it does step-in it's a lot smoother than it used to be. It's my goldilocks mode that can be quickly enabled and lets me play with the rear end a bit more when I'm in the rain on my summer tires, or on some really wacky terrain that I know will cause issues. There's a safety net there, and it works well for driving on the street. I also had the wonderful opportunity to see how the car and the computer reacts on a skidpad, so when it does step-out, I'm comfortable with the recovery.

Here's a thread on the coding stuff, and it's where I found the 1M values:
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1216642&page=5