BMW M1 test car spotted testing on Nurburgring!

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Alpine325ci

well truthfully im no bragger i have an automatic 325ci coupe but it looks good though. but honestly who doesnt want an ///M

It does infact looks very good but go drive an E46 M3 SMG an compare it to your car..gone is the comfort etc.

M3 ownership reminds me of Sport bikes ownership .I used to ride with a lot of guys that wanted to look good or cool.

The result:

They all sold their bikes the next summer complaining about them being too rough or too fast for them.

An ///M car shouldn't be a jack of all trades master of none car. I test drove an E90 M3 to replace my 1er that I sold because it was far from an E30-E36-E46 M3. That test drive convinced me not to buy an E9X M3 since its aimed toward a different crowd that are into gizmos etc(proof EDC which gives a certain level of comfort)

Oh and Did I mention the long arm option list we're far away from old m3's. WHo needs park distance control. I dont know but ///M car drivers are supposed to have a certain level of skills or a certain knowledge of cars. If not there are the regular Bimmers out there like the 550-335-135-128-328 etc.

[RobLS]

I keep thinking, and been thinking, that it would be a 135is. Just like you are seeing with the Z and the 3.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by RobLS

I keep thinking, and been thinking, that it would be a 135is. Just like you are seeing with the Z and the 3.

Thats what I think too..bmw cant just slap some go fast parts on the N54 or N55 and sell it as an ///M.
Being honest I dont see the hype over this car...people are complaining that STI are glorified WRX...M3 glorified 3 series what about this M1 or whatever they call it...it's even closer to the 135 than the other cars that I've mention above. I know we havent seen the complete detail list btw...too much hype....don't hold your breath...you guys might be disappointed.

This car will probably share engine with other bimmers while the STI, M3, EVO are models on their own. They have their own engines etc...not a massaged N54/55 that our guys have been tuning and playing with for the last 4 years.

I dont want to sound like a debbie downer but let's face it guys this car is based on an old outgoing platform this car will not revolutionize the market.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by mtla4

This car will probably share engine with other bimmers while the STI, M3, EVO are a model on their own with their own engines etc...not a massaged N54/55

SCOTT has already said that this engine will be the basis for the next generation M3--so I seriously doubt that this will just be a massages N55. We know for a fact that the M1 will not have any version of an N54......

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

SCOTT has already said that this engine will be the basis for the next generation M3--so I seriously doubt that this will just be a massages N55. We know for a fact that the M1 will not have any version of an N54......

I don't know this car does nothing for me..when the E82 came out it was already based on an old car that has been on the market for years then now this M1...Sorry guys I'm not too thrilled or interested by the car.

I just sold my 135 for various reasons and now this....it does not address the main reason why I sold it which is that I wanted an ///M car(with an high reving N/A engine)

Now just have to decide M coupe or E46 M3.With the 135 I felt like I was driving a mustang. It was scary fast...It was breaking loose on the hwy on acceleration but that's not what I wanted flooring it in 5th or 6th without having to downshift gets boring after a while or shifting at 6000 rpm because the 7000 redline was used...it's been a fun 2 years..sure I'll miss it but it's time to move on.

I'm sure that this M1 will be a great daily driver just like the new E9X m3 are but ///M cars are not meant to be the best daily drivers out there. I want them loud, raw, stiff, torqueless.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I don't know this car does nothing for me..when the E82 came out it was already based on an old car that has been on the market for years then now this M1...Sorry guys I'm not too thrilled or interested by the car.

I just sold my 135 for various reasons and now this....it does not address the main reason why I sold it which is I wanted an ///M car(with an high reving N/A engine) just have to decide M coupe or E46 M3 now. I felt like I was driving a mustang with the 135. It was scary fast...It was breaking loose on the hwy on acceleration but not what I wanted..it's been a fun 2 years..Im moving on

Fair enough--I have been posting about the week I spent recently in my dad's M Coupe--one of the most impressive and involved cars I have ever driven. It is leaps and bounds above the 135....and I hope that "gap" is shortened considerably in the M1....

If I drive the M1 and it doesn't feel along the lines of the M Coupe--just in terms of driver involvement and overall feel--then I too will be moving on...maybe to a used M3 before the NA V8 is gone....

But I understand what you mean.....

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I just sold my 135 for various reasons and now this....it does not address the main reason why I sold it which is that I wanted an ///M car(with an high reving N/A engine)

It's been covered before, but those days are gone. You can't get decent fuel economy out of a high revving NA motor making this much power. The engineers either have to increase displacement (which directly increases torque and lowers the redline) in order to allow taller gearing, or they have to go FI.

Can you think of anyone who's selling a high revving NA car in this price range right now that's making upwards of 350Hp? Other than the M3, which is due for a change, I can't.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

It's been covered before, but those days are gone. You can't get decent fuel economy out of a high revving NA motor making this much power. The engineers either have to increase displacement (which directly increases torque and lowers the redline) in order to allow taller gearing, or they have to go FI.

Can you think of anyone who's selling a high revving NA car in this price range right now that's making upwards of 350Hp? Other than the M3, which is due for a change, I can't.

I understand. But never GM or Ford will sell out and sell Turbo or S/C as their base v8 in the Stang or Camaro...An M car is not meant to be fasting thing on the 1/4 mile. I'd rather have an 260-300 hp I4 N/A in the M1 than these turbo engines. Removing EDC,PDC and other useless would be a start to lower the cars weight. Also they could use other map settings which would provide better fuel economy just like in the M3-M5 via the Power button.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

It's been covered before, but those days are gone. You can't get decent fuel economy out of a high revving NA motor making this much power. The engineers either have to increase displacement (which directly increases torque and lowers the redline) in order to allow taller gearing, or they have to go FI.

Can you think of anyone who's selling a high revving NA car in this price range right now that's making upwards of 350Hp? Other than the M3, which is due for a change, I can't.

Ford is now offering a 5.0L V8 that revs to 7K. Thats very high for a Small Block V8.

If Ford can do that then why cant BMW do even better with an engine with far less displacement...lets say 3.3L

[Alpin3_F30]

Originally Posted by mtla4

It does infact looks very good but go drive an E46 M3 SMG an compare it to your car..gone is the comfort etc.

M3 ownership reminds me of Sport bikes ownership .I used to ride with a lot of guys that wanted to look good or cool.

The result:

They all sold their bikes the next summer complaining about them being too rough or too fast for them.

An ///M car shouldn't be a jack of all trades master of none car. I test drove an E90 M3 to replace my 1er that I sold because it was far from an E30-E36-E46 M3. That test drive convinced me not to buy an E9X M3 since its aimed toward a different crowd that are into gizmos etc(proof EDC which gives a certain level of comfort)

Oh and Did I mention the long arm option list we're far away from old m3's. WHo needs park distance control. I dont know but ///M car drivers are supposed to have a certain level of skills or a certain knowledge of cars. If not there are the regular Bimmers out there like the 550-335-135-128-328 etc.

oh theres no comfort in this car anymore the way it sits, wheels and stuff. but my friends white M3 behind me drives about the same and his has just springs. i know the difference between M comfort and non M comfort.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I understand. But never GM or Ford will sell out and sell Turbo or S/C as their base v8 in the Stang or Camaro...An M car is not meant to be fasting thing on the 1/4 mile. I'd rather have an 260-300 hp I4 N/A in the M1 than these turbo engines. Removing EDC,PDC and other useless would be a start to lower the cars weight. Also they could use other map settings which would provide better fuel economy just like in the M3-M5 via the Power button.

A 300Hp NA 4cyl? That's not even remotely realistic, nor would it be competitive in this price range. EDC and PDC don't add enough weight ot make any real difference. The weight comes from the added safety equipment, and the only way around it is to use exotic materials in the structure, which increases the cost further.

GM and Ford are getting by using large displacement, high torque motors with tall gearing to minimize partial throttle pumping losses. I doubt we ever see BMW go that route. You can't alter the displacement with a pushbutton. It's not the mapping that causes the poor economy, it's the fact that an engine designed for high RPM operation isn't efficient at lower RPMs.

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Ford is now offering a 5.0L V8 that revs to 7K. Thats very high for a Small Block V8.

If Ford can do that then why cant BMW do even better with an engine with far less displacement...lets say 3.3L

Smaller displacement meand less torque, which means lower gearing, which mean poor fuel economy. There's just no way around it.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Alpine325ci

oh theres no comfort in this car anymore the way it sits, wheels and stuff. but my friends white M3 behind me drives about the same and his has just springs. i know the difference between M comfort and non M comfort.

I gave an other look your car is really nice...Thumbs up

What I'm saying is that per exemple by buying an M3 you get better brakes etc...While your 325ci might look nicer the brakes are really small and must be wearing out very fast with such large wheels..let alone increase braking distance..it's just useless to pay for something that you're not going to be using . You could but it doesn't make any sense IMO..when

In your case your car looks nicer then a stock E46 M3..there is no point of buying an M3 and modify it like you did with the 325.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

A 300Hp NA 4cyl? That's not even remotely realistic, nor would it be competitive in this price range. EDC and PDC don't add enough weight ot make any real difference. The weight comes from the added safety equipment, and the only way around it is to use exotic materials in the structure, which increases the cost further.

GM and Ford are getting by using large displacement, high torque motors with tall gearing to minimize partial throttle pumping losses. I doubt we ever see BMW go that route.



Smaller displacement meand less torque, which means lower gearing, which mean poor fuel economy. There's just no way around it.

Gotta pay to play...Competitive or not a lot of guys would pay M3 money for a small car(1 series) with an N/A engine if ///M could produce it. I wanted an M3 but the thing is a barge. Regardless of the price, fuel efficiency I would be all that car if it could be produced.

It is possible to have a 4 banger that produces 250-300 hp it has been done in the past. However the power band is very narrow and the car would not be a good DD.Nissan SR20DE can produce 300 hp in N/A form. Honda S2000 is an other good exemple.

A small I6 could do the job too.

When I was talking about options is these cars need to be stripped of all useless crap and use lighter components like aluminum and CF.

I know where we're heading in terms of regulations,emission standard.But since you've own a GTO in the past you got to admit that N/A engines are overall closer to the ///M philosophy.

[Beemer323]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

A 300Hp NA 4cyl? That's not even remotely realistic, nor would it be competitive in this price range.

Hahaha...MTLA's gonna slot a tuned s14 into an e82

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Beemer323

Hahaha...MTLA's gonna slot a tuned s14 into an e82

Better I'll steal your E30 330I

[Oulixes]

The rear fender is great.

[Sephiroth]

I'm a sucker for flared fenders

[BBK]

Still finding it hard to believe BMW would widen the track, put tough brakes on, M diff etc etc for an IS model... Actually, I'll shout anyone a drink who thinks it's an IS model and it actually turns out to be an IS.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Gotta pay to play...Competitive or not a lot of guys would pay M3 money for a small car(1 series) with an N/A engine if ///M could produce it. I wanted an M3 but the thing is a barge. Regardless of the price, fuel efficiency I would be all that car if it could be produced.

It is possible to have a 4 banger that produces 250-300 hp it has been done in the past. However the power band is very narrow and the car would not be a good DD.Nissan SR20DE can produce 300 hp in N/A form. Honda S2000 is an other good exemple.

A small I6 could do the job too.

When I was talking about options is these cars need to be stripped of all useless crap and use lighter components like aluminum and CF.

I know where we're heading in terms of regulations,emission standard.But since you've own a GTO in the past you got to admit that N/A engines are overall closer to the ///M philosophy.

I like NA engines, but it's just not realistc. The S2000 was 240Hp, and the fuel mileage isn't good even though it's in a small car. It does have a broad torque curve though, not a narrow power band at all, but it just doesn't make much of it. It wouldn't stand up to current emissions and CO2 standards either. An SR20DE producing that kind of power is doing it with radical cams and no hopes whatsoever of meeting emissions.

Even GM is talking about going to a turbocharged engine in the next Vette. The manufacturers of performance cars are up against a wall. If we want power going forward, it's going to come in the form of forced induction. There's just no way around it other than a hybrid driveline, and they're not at that point yet.

Take a look at the current M3 as an example. It's got a high revving V8 making 413Hp, and gets 20MPG on the highway. That's just not going to fly anymore.

[SpeedballTrix]

I love how it basically drove through that corner like it wasn't even there.
I also think it's hilarious how they pretty much just took a sawsall to the front fenders of a 135i to stuff those front tires in. Nothing fancy, just cut the metal away and let the art guys worry about making it pretty =D

Now all I need to do is hit the mega and Ill be good to go =X

Also, two important points in closing:
1) Turbocharging is the way of the future.
2) Never feed trolls.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Im not saying that you cant be proud of your car. There will always be a pride in ownership.

But bragging about it, and buying it inorder to brag makes it arrogance.

"I've been told that it captures my essence"!

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I like NA engines, but it's just not realistc. The S2000 was 240Hp, and the fuel mileage isn't good even though it's in a small car. It does have a broad torque curve though, not a narrow power band at all, but it just doesn't make much of it. It wouldn't stand up to current emissions and CO2 standards either. An SR20DE producing that kind of power is doing it with radical cams and no hopes whatsoever of meeting emissions.

Even GM is talking about going to a turbocharged engine in the next Vette. The manufacturers of performance cars are up against a wall. If we want power going forward, it's going to come in the form of forced induction. There's just no way around it other than a hybrid driveline, and they're not at that point yet.

Take a look at the current M3 as an example. It's got a high revving V8 making 413Hp, and gets 20MPG on the highway. That's just not going to fly anymore.

Speak for yourself. I normally average 26-27mpg in my S2000 and I drive about 60% city 40% highway. Over 100k is on my 2004 and I've gotten 31mpg on a all highway trip two months ago. I'm a part of that community as well and I'm not alone. I'm not the light pedal type either.