N54 engine confirmed for M1 according to this article?

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

While there are differences in the AWD systems between a regular WRX and a WRX STi, Subaru does not use Haldex in their cars. Even a regular WRX (and other Subarus for that matter) have a 50/50 split AWD system.

My bad then. I heard that automatic tranny subaru uses a different system. True?

[ptack]

The official word is that this car will be presented later this year and will begin sales in Europe early next year.

If you work backwards from that timeline then you know that all of the major decisions about this car have been made. Actual production could start in less than 6 months.

If you want to know what the engine will be you better look at what they have at hand. If they were developing a new engine for this car we would have heard specifics about it. The only realistic options are between the N54 and N55. Since BMW has already released the tweaked version of the N54 in the 335is, you can bet dollars to donuts they fully intended to leverage that investment by plunking it into a 1. The fact that every recent article suggests that it is indeed a tuned N54 just confirms the obvious.

I fear this will be just an 135is with an M price and M-scuses to justify that price.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by ptack

The official word is that this car will be presented later this year and will begin sales in Europe early next year.

If you work backwards from that timeline then you know that all of the major decisions about this car have been made. Actual production could start in less than 6 months.

If you want to know what the engine will be you better look at what they have at hand. If they were developing a new engine for this car we would have heard specifics about it. The only realistic options are between the N54 and N55. Since BMW has already released the tweaked version of the N54 in the 335is, you can bet dollars to donuts they fully intended to leverage that investment by plunking it into a 1. The fact that every recent article suggests that it is indeed a tuned N54 just confirms the obvious.

I fear this will be just an 135is with an M price and M-scuses to justify that price.

That's exactly what I've been thinking 4.8IS X5 4.6IS X5 NOW this 135is

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by mtla4

My bad then. I heard that automatic tranny subaru uses a different system. True?

Actually, that is true. The 5MT models use a 50/50 system while the automatic transmission models have a couple of different awd systems. Of course, the STi has its own system. I didn't think the systems on the automatic models functioned like a Haldex system, but maybe I'm wrong on that count. Here's some information I found from Subaru about their awd systems. It's listed on the lower half of the page:

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win09/Wi...sWhatMakes.htm

[amdmaxx]

It's been confirmed it's a two door coupe.

Originally Posted by Robert

The only thing confirmed is its a car.

[BrokenVert]

Paul if BMW had actually released specs on this car then we would be the first ones to know about it...and not through those stupid rags.

I for one trust what scott says as he has been right about everything so far. And Scott says that the magazines are just making stuff up

[apekid]

Originally Posted by ptack

Since BMW has already released the tweaked version of the N54 in the 335is, you can bet dollars to donuts they fully intended to leverage that investment by plunking it into a 1. The fact that every recent article suggests that it is indeed a tuned N54 just confirms the obvious.

I fear this will be just an 135is with an M price and M-scuses to justify that price.

The only thing keeping me convinced that the engine will be a modified N55 is the fact that whatever goes under the hood of the 1M will be the basis of the F30 M3. If BMW has already phased out the N54 in favor of the N55 in all of its models, save for the 'is' models, will they really stick with it through another generation and two models?

[atr_hugo]

The case for the N54 is the fact that it doesn't have the Valvetronic fiddly bits that the N55 has.

Regardless, the key to producing better HP numbers is finding a way to extend the torque curve (instead of falling off a cliff at 5500 RPM like it does currently). If the 'mesa' of the torque curve is extended to 6500 RPM the HP #s will be in the 400 HP range.

[jpd]

Another misleading thread from down under. BMW are masters of obfuscation. Until such time as there is an official release, we best not jump to conclusions.

[michifan]

This car is going to disappoint a ton of people on this site. I just don't see how they can make good money on this car, keep the base price below $50K and make the kind of power and performance gains people expect.

I think its reasonable that it either is going to be a N54 or a bi-turbo N55, I expect the suspension to be tweaked with a LSD - but I'd be shocked if it were more than 350HP at the crank and those that run meth with full tunes will be able to smoke it.

I'm not down on the car, I just know first-hand what happens when the accountants, marketeers and salesguys finish with a car - nobody wins.

[ptack]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Paul if BMW had actually released specs on this car then we would be the first ones to know about it...and not through those stupid rags.

I for one trust what scott says as he has been right about everything so far. And Scott says that the magazines are just making stuff up

Ah, but Scott has been carefully circumspect about the car and has only hinted at certain features. He's absolutely right in saying that magazines sometimes make things up, but he also didn't specifically say what the truth is. We assume he's in a position to know the facts, but he doesn't provide many.

Though Scott may be a great guy, I believe he works for BMW (people can make that up too on the internet) so in that capacity he's providing info publicly which is another way to say "sales and marketing". I'm sure BMW wants as much buzz as they can generate for this car and this is 1-central when it comes to spreading the word.

I'm with you in that I'd love for this car to be a true M car deserving of the badge (and I'll buy one if it is), but I think the circumstances and evidence suggest we're being played like a cheap violin and, unless BMW saves the day by giving us a super N54 (not one with just the performance power kit), I'll be disappointed.

[BMW269]

Hahahahahaha! You'll be all surprised when you'll see a brand new S55 with over 350 HP! It will be a KILL.

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by formula M

The 1 series //M coupe will most likely have bi-turbo, twin-scroll designed.

This has been mentioned a few times in other threads, but I still maintain that it's a puzzling engineering solution to have two separate 3in1 manifolds drive two turbo's (see the N54 setup below), with each of these 3-cylinder manifolds having a divided outlet.

On each turbo, you will have 2 cylinders on one outlet and a single cylinder on the other. With the firing order on an inline 6 as it is, I fail to see how this would be of benefit.

Above: Divided aka "twinscroll" turbine inlet

[BrokenVert]

Scotts been saying that it's a biturbo version of the N55. I simply choose to reserve judgement until BMW officially unveils the car.

These magazines don't know anything...they were passengers and they never looked under the hood. Hell a lot of them were saying that it was an is despite so much evidence to the contrary until segler actually said the name of the car.

Originally Posted by ptack

Ah, but Scott has been carefully circumspect about the car and has only hinted at certain features. He's absolutely right in saying that magazines sometimes make things up, but he also didn't specifically say what the truth is. We assume he's in a position to know the facts, but he doesn't provide many.

Though Scott may be a great guy, I believe he works for BMW (people can make that up too on the internet) so in that capacity he's providing info publicly which is another way to say "sales and marketing". I'm sure BMW wants as much buzz as they can generate for this car and this is 1-central when it comes to spreading the word.

I'm with you in that I'd love for this car to be a true M car deserving of the badge (and I'll buy one if it is), but I think the circumstances and evidence suggest we're being played like a cheap violin and, unless BMW saves the day by giving us a super N54 (not one with just the performance power kit), I'll be disappointed.

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by Future M1 owner

This has been mentioned a few times in other threads, but I still maintain that it's a puzzling engineering solution to have two separate 3in1 manifolds drive two turbo's (see the N54 setup below), with each of these 3-cylinder manifolds having a divided outlet.
On each turbo, you will have 2 cylinders on one outlet and a single cylinder on the other. With the firing order on an inline 6 as it is, I fail to see how this would be of benefit.

Agree, having 6 cylinders statically feeding 4 exhaust gas inlets of two twin scroll turbo chargers doesn't make too much sense ...

A solution could be to choose the "3 cylinders per turbine" approach of the N54 but dynamically distributing the exhaust gases to the appropriate inlet of the twin scroll turbo chargers. This of course is technically far away from easy ...

I'm really looking forward to see if/how BMW M GmbH manages to keep the low-end torque of the N54/N55 and extend the usable rev-range to more than 6.300 rpm

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by formula M

Tri-turbo?
The plumbing would make sense.

Correct!
As crazy as it may sound, a tri-turbo can be realistically configured to use three twin-scroll turbos, provided there's enough room in the enginebay for three hairdryers and a boatload of spaghetti

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Levi

Hahahahahaha! You'll be all surprised when you'll see a brand new S55 with over 350 HP! It will be a KILL.

Mon cher cousin français.

Even if it has 350 hp....the 135I with PPK is close to that and a good tune exceeds those numbers. ///M cars should be set apart. The M3 engine is not even close to the 335I so does the M5 and 550I. It will still be a torquey engine. I don't need a torquey ///M.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

The best analysis was Chris harris he is a journalist that works for EVO magazine. He owns an E-92 M3. He asked questions that got the driver saying; thats what you can hear thats what you feel. So he asks it's a twin turbo six thats what you can hear. It feels like you have a LSD thats what you can feel. The brakes need replacing he complains about hot lap and in Lap. But ///M factory brakes suck ass on the track and i see the 1M coupe being no different. Change pads lines & fluid should be everbodys first modification

For the money BMW will want for a 1M, it would be a shame to have to change/mod the brakes right off the bat.

If this 1M doesn't manage to produce at least 370hp/370lb ft and hold most of the power till near 7k, then it'll be pointless, imo. Anything under 350 would be a shame. You're then just paying for a suspension and an "M" on your car.
You could do as well, if not better, with an aftermarket fully adjustable suspension and a solid tune.

I'm not impressed with slightly widened fender flares and larger tires, or even an LSD. Given what the domestics are putting out, for the additional money BMW will want for a 1M, it should easily match those AND then some, not come in with less.

I'd like to see BMW fix the regular 1 with a proper suspension and some sheet metal update, and some added power. I don't feel like paying a lot more for what amounts to a slightly upgraded 135i.
Maybe the "135iS" label would have been a better name, with an appropriate lower price tag.

[BrokenVert]

rpm90 a 135is wouldn't have come with widened fenders or a better suspension. The is cars are simply the BMW performance parts mounted on the car from the factory. Which really doesn't amount to all that much extra for a lot of extra cash. So why do you say it's a better value?

IMO people should reserve judgement until the damned specs are released. Until then you're bench racing with made up numbers and what's the point of that?

But I'm tired of attempting to be the voice of reason so I'll just shut up now

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by ptack

I fear this will be just an 135is with an M price and M-scuses to justify that price.

Agreed. All they're doing is un-doing the limitations they designed into the 135i. You know, the things they should've done in the first place: rear LSD, wider front tires, stiffer suspension bushings, etc. If we're lucky they might even give us M level interior: like M3 seats and a name brand premium sound system. The base stereo in our 325i sounds better than my $800 optional "premium" system. Don't get me wrong, I like my 135i but I think it's funny people are getting excited to get things in the 1M that most other cars already come with for $46k+ (I paid over $46k for my 135i) The 1M will be deep into the $50k's.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

Agreed. All they're doing is un-doing the limitations they designed into the 135i. You know, the things they should've done in the first place: rear LSD, wider front tires, stiffer suspension bushings, etc. If we're lucky they might even give us M level interior: like M3 seats and a name brand premium sound system. The base stereo in our 325i sounds better than my $800 optional "premium" system. Don't get me wrong, I like my 135i but I think it's funny people are getting excited to get things in the 1M that most other cars already come with for $46k+ (I paid over $46k for my 135i) The 1M will be deep into the $50k's.

You are aware that all non M cars don't have a LSD? And do you think that, for the almost a yr M Division's engineers have just been driving around the 'Ring for nothing. What you just listed, hell, why would I want a M3 over a base 335i then? Or a X5/X6 M vs. the the normal V8 version?

I guess for you, the 1M GTS version will be no biggie as well

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

rpm90 a 135is wouldn't have come with widened fenders or a better suspension. The is cars are simply the BMW performance parts mounted on the car from the factory. Which really doesn't amount to all that much extra for a lot of extra cash. So why do you say it's a better value?

IMO people should reserve judgement until the damned specs are released. Until then you're bench racing with made up numbers and what's the point of that?

But I'm tired of attempting to be the voice of reason so I'll just shut up now

I agree that judgment should wait until the car is out and we get a chance to drive them, no argument there at all.

My comment is not a judgment. I am voicing my opinion on what I think the 1M SHOULD be, and what I would like to see and not see.

Obviously, like everyone else, I don't know what the actual 1M will be.
But, as I said, these are just my opinions, not judgments.

I didn't say an "IS" is a better value.
I'm saying that if the 1M doesn't come with enough "special" things, then it won't amount to much more than an "IS" type enhancement.
Wider fender flares are simply to allow wider tires. It's not what an "M" is.
A better suspension is a given, and they need to spend more time on it than they did in the 135i, and get it RIGHT this time.

But, wider tires and a better suspension are things that even an "IS" can have. A M needs more, and the engine is a prominent part of the recipe.
Using the N54 would not be a good idea imo. It is not the "old" turbo engine. It's output characteristics are not inline with what an M engine should be.

I'm simply saying that boosting an N54 to get more power amounts to nothing really special. Now, with they use the N54? That's just speculation. But, if they did, how much more special and modern could they make it?
I'm all for, at least, using the N55 with the valvtronics breathing capability to improve flow at high rpm. If a dual twin scroll can't be made to work, though I think they can do it, then go for a larger unit and tune it for mid to high rpm power. They can use the natural 3.0 liter displacement, along with the relative high compression to give a smooth linear low rpm torque that smoothly ramps up the torque as revs climb.

IOW, it doesn't have to have a tug boat load of low rpm torque. It needs a smooth linear throttle in, power out. Once the exhaust pressure it up, smoothly bring in the "low" side of the twin scroll, which will transition to the high side as revs climb. The added size/flow capacity of a larger TS would allow better breathing at high rpm.

This type of engine would be special and worthy of an "M" logo, and the subsequent price tag.

As a customer, I don't want to have to spend more money to get a better sorted suspension that should have been there in the first place.
So, the 1M really needs to go beyond wider fenders and a better suspension. It needs to have an adjustable and adaptable suspension like the Audi TT offers, along with a "WOW' engine design.