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      07-17-2019, 12:04 PM   #6557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Since he is the most transparent President in history why are his Putin meeting so secret that even his staff isn’t allowed to be in on?
Yeah, the most transparent president in history. That is a real laugher now isn't it.
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      07-17-2019, 12:49 PM   #6558
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
No you posted typical emotionally charged BS about how we are racist for supporting him. You never actually answered the question.
You have the same song and dance. I answered the question and you ignore it because it's the easier thing to do. Additionally, if you had bothered to read I specifically said Trump supporters aren't necessarily racist. Since your intent isn't to have a discussion, but to have a confrontation, it is of little surprise. This conversation will likely lead to you telling me to "eat a dick" and that I am a "pathetic woman" just like last time because your capacity for civility limits you as such.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember you telling me that you are an immigrant yourself or your parents were, or maybe their parents were. Either way, I was born here in America, so if you don't like that we can exercise our rights to criticize our government, maybe you should go back to where you came from? Us real Americans are busy trying to actually improve our nation. If you didn't get it by now, I don't actually mean what I just said, however, what Trump has done was legitimize this mentality. Are these the words and actions of a leader?
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      07-17-2019, 12:56 PM   #6559
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Again, I feel you are being critical where it isn't warranted. Doesn't really matter if you like or hate a politician, doesn't matter what they say or do, doesn't matter if they lie, cheat, steal, or murder. All of that is it's own discussion on merit.

The comment here was the fact that it was transparent and available for all to view. The simple fact that you were able to call out the lies proves my point that it was a good thing.
True, it doesn't matter if you like or hate a politician. But once instance of transparency does not make a transparent administration. Slight of hand: let them see one thing and they think they see it all.

Trump can straight lie to his supporters because he knows he's got a carrot they are more interested in.
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      07-17-2019, 01:14 PM   #6560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
True, it doesn't matter if you like or hate a politician. But once instance of transparency does not make a transparent administration. Slight of hand: let them see one thing and they think they see it all.

Trump can straight lie to his supporters because he knows he's got a carrot they are more interested in.
Again, I am certainly not a fan of Trump nor what you would call a supporter by any means, although I do support several of his policies. I am willing to note, however, that there have been many instances of additional transparency in his administration to date, as compared to previous ones. Sure, this is likely due to his hubris and desire to be the focus of media attention, but any transparency is a good thing - for both lovers and haters of any politician - and any in between.

I really feel that glennQNYC hit the nail on the head with this portion of his comment below:

Quote:
...transparency is a HIT for everyone. I can only hope the next administration continues this practice...
Regardless of your take on this president, any additional movement of the ability of citizens to monitor the government is a good thing.

Do you not agree?
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      07-17-2019, 01:49 PM   #6561
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I think the real issue here is Trump provides the definition of transparency, the content of which for the most part reflects his idea of "truthiness" which contain small kernels of DNA descended and colored from the actual truth. It is propaganda. His statements have as much fact in them as Senator Warren's genes show Cherokee bloodlines.
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      07-17-2019, 02:34 PM   #6562
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I like this one: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-trump-1418075
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      07-17-2019, 02:38 PM   #6563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Again, I am certainly not a fan of Trump nor what you would call a supporter by any means, although I do support several of his policies. I am willing to note, however, that there have been many instances of additional transparency in his administration to date, as compared to previous ones. Sure, this is likely due to his hubris and desire to be the focus of media attention, but any transparency is a good thing - for both lovers and haters of any politician - and any in between.

I really feel that glennQNYC hit the nail on the head with this portion of his comment below:



Regardless of your take on this president, any additional movement of the ability of citizens to monitor the government is a good thing.

Do you not agree?
I do agree. So long as we are not satiated with instances of transparency to let other, more pressing things be hidden to our detriment.
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      07-17-2019, 02:43 PM   #6564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I do agree. So long as we are not satiated with instances of transparency to let other, more pressing things be hidden to our detriment.
I have no disagreement with this.
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      07-17-2019, 04:08 PM   #6565
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Hit: Feds officially end their investigation into the Trump Org reference campaign finance violations.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/polit...ing/index.html
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      07-17-2019, 04:31 PM   #6566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
Hit: Feds officially end their investigation into the Trump Org reference campaign finance violations.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/polit...ing/index.html
I'm substantially less concerned about what Trump did with his personal money before he was elected, even though I find it personally disgusting, and more concerned with what our congressman and women do subsequent to holding public office. You know, kind of like these current examples of pieces of shit:

Rep. Ruben Kihuen [D-NV4, 2017-2018]
sexual harassment & abuse reprimand resolved
On Dec. 15, 2017, the House Committee on Ethics announced that it had begun an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment by Kihuen. On November 16, 2018, the Committee the Committee found that Representative Kihuen made persistent and unwanted advances towards women who were required to interact with him as part of their professional responsibilities

Rep. John Conyers [D-MI13, 2013-2017]
ethics violation sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
On December 5, 2017, Conyers resigned from office at the start of an investigation for sexual harassment, age discrimination, and improper use of official resources for personal purposes.

Rep. William Jefferson [D-LA2, 1991-2008]
bribery & corruption conviction in court resolved
In 2009 Jefferson was convicted of bribery. In 2012, he was sentenced to 13 years in prison. In 2017, 7 of the 10 indictments were dismissed and he was released from prison.

Sen. Alan “Al” Franken [D-MN, 2009-2017]
sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
On December 7, 2017, Senator Franken announced his resignation which was effective January 2, 2018 due to allegations of sexual harassment. Select Committee on Ethics began investigating Senator Franken on November 30, 2017.

Rep. Corrine Brown [D-FL5, 2013-2016]
other crimes conviction in court resolved
In 2016 Brown was convicted for a range of mail violations, wire fraud, defrauding the IRS and related charges. In 2016, Brown lost in the primary and in 2017 she was convicted of the charges against her. In December 2017, she was sentenced to five years in prison.

Rep. Robin Hayes [R-NC8, 1999-2008]
bribery & corruption campaign & elections unresolved
In 2019, Mr. Hayes, the Republican representative for NC-8 from 1999-2008 and current chair of the North Carolina Republican Party, was indicted on charges of bribery and conspiracy to commit honest services wire fraud, along with several counts of making false statements in an effort to bribe North Carolina's insurance commissioner.

Rep. Robert Brady [D-PA1, 1998-2018]
bribery & corruption campaign & elections unresolved
Brady faced an allegation of leading a criminal conspiracy to hide a $90,000 payment made to persuade a 2012 primary opponent to drop out of the race. On Nov. 1, 2017, the Federal Bureau of Investigation issued a search warrant for email.

Rep. Bob Filner [D-CA51, 2003-2012]
sexual harassment & abuse resolved
In 2013 Filner pleaded guilty to groping, sexually suggestive comments and unwanted advances as mayor of San Diego, CA. In Nov. 2017, Rep. Diana DeGettee alleged that Filner had groped her when their Congressional terms overlapped.

Sen. Robert “Bob” Menendez [D-NJ]
bribery & corruption reprimand resolved
Menendez was investigated for unspecified misconduct in 2012. The Senate investigation was halted during his investigation and trial for corruption and bribery which resulted in a mistrial. In April 2018, the Senate Select Committee on Ethics admonished Senator Menendez for violating Senate rules and ordered him to repay any remaining outstanding value of impermissable gifts.

Rep. Trent Franks [R-AZ8, 2013-2017]
sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
In 2017, Franks resigned due to reports that he had asked staff members to carry his surrogate child and had offered one staffer $5 million dollars to impregnate her via intercourse.

Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY9, 1999-2011]
other crimes sexual harassment & abuse resignation pleaded in court resolved
Weiner sent sexually explicit texts to women who were not his wife, including to a 15-year-old girl. On Jun. 21, 2011, he resigned. On Oct. 28, 2016, the Director of the FBI, James Comey, publicly reopened his investigation into presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton because the computer seized as part of the Weiner investigation contained some emails that might have been relevant to a prior investigation into Clinton.

Rep. Alan Grayson [D-FL9, 2013-2016]
ethics violation resolved
In 2015 Grayson was investigated for numerous alleged violations, the majority of which relate to his leadership and ownership of a hedge fund and law firms, omissions from his annual financial disclosure forms, and the use of official resources for unofficial purposes. He lost the 2016 election.

Rep. Chaka Fattah [D-PA2, 1995-2016]
bribery & corruption resignation conviction in court resolved
In 2016 Fattah was convicted for conspiracy, racketeering, bribery, fraud, falsification of records, making false statements, and money laundering after a 2015 House investigation had been launched. The House Committee on Ethics ended its investigation when Fattah resigned. Fattah resigned in 2016, two days after being convicted of the charges. He is currently serving a ten year sentence.
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      07-17-2019, 04:55 PM   #6567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I'm substantially less concerned about what Trump did with his personal money before he was elected, even though I find it personally disgusting, and more concerned with what our congressman and women do subsequent to holding public office. You know, kind of like these current examples of pieces of shit:

Rep. Ruben Kihuen [D-NV4, 2017-2018]
sexual harassment & abuse reprimand resolved
On Dec. 15, 2017, the House Committee on Ethics announced that it had begun an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment by Kihuen. On November 16, 2018, the Committee the Committee found that Representative Kihuen made persistent and unwanted advances towards women who were required to interact with him as part of their professional responsibilities

Rep. John Conyers [D-MI13, 2013-2017]
ethics violation sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
On December 5, 2017, Conyers resigned from office at the start of an investigation for sexual harassment, age discrimination, and improper use of official resources for personal purposes.

Rep. William Jefferson [D-LA2, 1991-2008]
bribery & corruption conviction in court resolved
In 2009 Jefferson was convicted of bribery. In 2012, he was sentenced to 13 years in prison. In 2017, 7 of the 10 indictments were dismissed and he was released from prison.

Sen. Alan “Al” Franken [D-MN, 2009-2017]
sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
On December 7, 2017, Senator Franken announced his resignation which was effective January 2, 2018 due to allegations of sexual harassment. Select Committee on Ethics began investigating Senator Franken on November 30, 2017.

Rep. Corrine Brown [D-FL5, 2013-2016]
other crimes conviction in court resolved
In 2016 Brown was convicted for a range of mail violations, wire fraud, defrauding the IRS and related charges. In 2016, Brown lost in the primary and in 2017 she was convicted of the charges against her. In December 2017, she was sentenced to five years in prison.

Rep. Robin Hayes [R-NC8, 1999-2008]
bribery & corruption campaign & elections unresolved
In 2019, Mr. Hayes, the Republican representative for NC-8 from 1999-2008 and current chair of the North Carolina Republican Party, was indicted on charges of bribery and conspiracy to commit honest services wire fraud, along with several counts of making false statements in an effort to bribe North Carolina's insurance commissioner.

Rep. Robert Brady [D-PA1, 1998-2018]
bribery & corruption campaign & elections unresolved
Brady faced an allegation of leading a criminal conspiracy to hide a $90,000 payment made to persuade a 2012 primary opponent to drop out of the race. On Nov. 1, 2017, the Federal Bureau of Investigation issued a search warrant for email.

Rep. Bob Filner [D-CA51, 2003-2012]
sexual harassment & abuse resolved
In 2013 Filner pleaded guilty to groping, sexually suggestive comments and unwanted advances as mayor of San Diego, CA. In Nov. 2017, Rep. Diana DeGettee alleged that Filner had groped her when their Congressional terms overlapped.

Sen. Robert “Bob” Menendez [D-NJ]
bribery & corruption reprimand resolved
Menendez was investigated for unspecified misconduct in 2012. The Senate investigation was halted during his investigation and trial for corruption and bribery which resulted in a mistrial. In April 2018, the Senate Select Committee on Ethics admonished Senator Menendez for violating Senate rules and ordered him to repay any remaining outstanding value of impermissable gifts.

Rep. Trent Franks [R-AZ8, 2013-2017]
sexual harassment & abuse resignation resolved
In 2017, Franks resigned due to reports that he had asked staff members to carry his surrogate child and had offered one staffer $5 million dollars to impregnate her via intercourse.

Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY9, 1999-2011]
other crimes sexual harassment & abuse resignation pleaded in court resolved
Weiner sent sexually explicit texts to women who were not his wife, including to a 15-year-old girl. On Jun. 21, 2011, he resigned. On Oct. 28, 2016, the Director of the FBI, James Comey, publicly reopened his investigation into presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton because the computer seized as part of the Weiner investigation contained some emails that might have been relevant to a prior investigation into Clinton.

Rep. Alan Grayson [D-FL9, 2013-2016]
ethics violation resolved
In 2015 Grayson was investigated for numerous alleged violations, the majority of which relate to his leadership and ownership of a hedge fund and law firms, omissions from his annual financial disclosure forms, and the use of official resources for unofficial purposes. He lost the 2016 election.

Rep. Chaka Fattah [D-PA2, 1995-2016]
bribery & corruption resignation conviction in court resolved
In 2016 Fattah was convicted for conspiracy, racketeering, bribery, fraud, falsification of records, making false statements, and money laundering after a 2015 House investigation had been launched. The House Committee on Ethics ended its investigation when Fattah resigned. Fattah resigned in 2016, two days after being convicted of the charges. He is currently serving a ten year sentence.
Well, I think there was evidence that Trump made some of those payments back to Cohen while Trump was in office, but it is all a moot point now anyway if they are not investigating it further at this time.

And to your list you can add Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA 50th District California) who, along with his wife, are under federal indictment for 60 counts of wire fraud, falsifying records, campaign finance violations, and conspiracy, some of which were alleged to have included (ahem) "personal relationships" between Duncan Hunter other women (wifey has plead guilty and has agreed to cooperate with the prosecution).
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      07-17-2019, 05:03 PM   #6568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I'm substantially less concerned about what Trump did with his personal money before he was elected, even though I find it personally disgusting, and more concerned with what our congressman and women do subsequent to holding public office. You know, kind of like these current examples of pieces of shit:
I absolutely agree - although I think we should also be deeply concerned if someone breaks the law in order to get elected also. (hypothetically)
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      07-17-2019, 05:06 PM   #6569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
Well, I think there was evidence that Trump made some of those payments back to Cohen while Trump was in office, but it is all a moot point now anyway if they are not investigating it further at this time.

And to your list you can add Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA 50th District California) who, along with his wife, are under federal indictment for 60 counts of wire fraud, falsifying records, campaign finance violations, and conspiracy, some of which were alleged to have included (ahem) "personal relationships" between Duncan Hunter other women (wifey has plead guilty and has agreed to cooperate with the prosecution).
Here's a full list of federal politicians convicted of crimes (I don't vouch for the accuracy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cted_of_crimes
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      07-17-2019, 05:19 PM   #6570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I think the real issue here is Trump provides the definition of transparency, the content of which for the most part reflects his idea of "truthiness" which contain small kernels of DNA descended and colored from the actual truth. It is propaganda. His statements have as much fact in them as Senator Warren's genes show Cherokee bloodlines.
Transparency remains beneficial even when a administration engages in lies or propaganda. Actually it may be more beneficial, because said transparency provides evidence of the lies or propaganda. That's my overarching point. Transparency is a good thing, especially for those opposing the administration. I'm repeating myself, but this should receive universal acclaim.
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      07-17-2019, 05:24 PM   #6571
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Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
I absolutely agree - although I think we should also be deeply concerned if someone breaks the law in order to get elected also. (hypothetically)
If you could show me that evidence with respect to Trump, I would be much obliged, sir.

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      07-17-2019, 05:35 PM   #6572
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      07-17-2019, 05:52 PM   #6573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
If you could show me that evidence with respect to Trump, I would be much obliged, sir.

(hypothetically)



Seriously though - I didn't say trump broke the law in order to get elected (or that I had evidence of it), I said we should be deeply concerned if someone does, as opposed to being less concerned about what they do with their money before they are elected.
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      07-17-2019, 06:09 PM   #6574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
If you could show me that evidence with respect to Trump, I would be much obliged, sir.

(hypothetically)



Seriously though - I didn't say trump broke the law in order to get elected (or that I had evidence of it), I said we should be deeply concerned if someone does, as opposed to being less concerned about what they do with their money before they are elected.
I think there's universal agreement on this. However, you do know a candidate can provide billions to his/her own campaign if they desire, right?
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      07-17-2019, 06:10 PM   #6575
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Ugh I can't take these racist xenophobic white nationalist nazis Mexicans. A new Washington Post poll shows more than 6 in 10 Mexicans say migrants are a burden on their country because they take jobs and benefits that should belong to Mexicans. A 55 percent majority supports deporting migrants who travel through Mexico to reach the United States. They probably snuck across the border to vote for Trump then went back again in typical nazi racist xenophobic white nationalist Mexican style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.adfe565eaef4
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      07-17-2019, 06:12 PM   #6576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
(hypothetically)



Seriously though - I didn't say trump broke the law in order to get elected (or that I had evidence of it), I said we should be deeply concerned if someone does, as opposed to being less concerned about what they do with their money before they are elected.
I think the point is that the suspicious activity around these events is much much higher than someone who is completely innocent. Right now, it's not enough to hold up in a court of law, but given Trump's tendency to be dishonest and deceitful, his financial problems in the past, and his lack of transparency regarding his finances, it tips the scales and shows that there is more evidence that something illegal or unethical might have been committed than there is evidence that there was indisputably and definitely no wrongdoing whatsoever. Since the law of the land is innocent until proven guilty, then Trump is presumed innocent. However, it is my belief that someone with his kind of exposure, his weak moral fiber, and desperation for power is easily corruptible, and that he would certainly betray his office for his own selfish needs. My opinion, however, is worthless unless/until proven right in the future. I also once had the suspicion that Santa wasn't real.
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      07-17-2019, 06:13 PM   #6577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
Ugh I can't take these racist xenophobic white nationalist nazis Mexicans. A new Washington Post poll shows more than 6 in 10 Mexicans say migrants are a burden on their country because they take jobs and benefits that should belong to Mexicans. A 55 percent majority supports deporting migrants who travel through Mexico to reach the United States. They probably snuck across the border to vote for Trump then went back again in typical nazi racist xenophobic white nationalist Mexican style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.adfe565eaef4
Freaking Mexican Nazi’s, man.
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      07-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #6578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
Ugh I can't take these racist xenophobic white nationalist nazis Mexicans. A new Washington Post poll shows more than 6 in 10 Mexicans say migrants are a burden on their country because they take jobs and benefits that should belong to Mexicans. A 55 percent majority supports deporting migrants who travel through Mexico to reach the United States. They probably snuck across the border to vote for Trump then went back again in typical nazi racist xenophobic white nationalist Mexican style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.adfe565eaef4
If only what my Mezcan Merican friends have to say about all this could go on TV.

The Squad would probably call them racists or bots. Racist bots!
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