BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-05-2015, 08:12 PM   #23
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

The Hotchkis bar is a good question - I did quite a bit of research on this topic, as the E9X and E8X bars are supposed to be all interchangeable, but there is little research on the topic. I have used Hotchkis bars before and always been impressed with their quality - I also like that they include brackets as well as bushings and endlinks with all their bars.

I bought the front and rear combo which is designed for the E9X, not the 1 series. With that said, the front is universally understood to be interchangeable between the 1 and 3, it's the rear that seems to cause more issue. To be clear, the Hotchkis 22834R E9X 3 Series Rear Swaybar bolted right onto the 128i with no issues whatsoever. I will install the matching front when I do the coilovers, it just made more sense to do the rear at the same time as doing the subframe bushings and LSD swap.

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2015, 08:18 PM   #24
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Regarding the LSD, this is what I wrote in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
I should have specified, a ramped clutch type. I went from a "standard" 3.15 M3 LSD to a fairly $$ built ramped style in my E36 and the turn in off of power was truly night and day. I was sweating and chewing my nails after I ordered the diff before I had received it as it was an expensive purchase and after exactly 1 autocross, I never questioned it again.

I don't think "transformed" is even a strong enough word - the difference was that big. You could really feel the effects of the ramp in steady state cornering - apply throttle, feel the back lock and start slowly pushing as the back grips, breathe off the throttle, feel the back go open and the nose just tucks right back in.

I haven't figured out who will build it yet, but I consider a good clutch type an absolute must in my build. I suspect Kyle will chime in with some similar feedback as I know he's got a ramped clutch type as well and I think his awesome results have spoken for themself as to how well the package is working.

Mark
The spec for the LSD I ordered from Dan at Diffsonline is a heavily ramped model. On power application, the diff is virtually solidly locked, and conversely on coast, the diff is basically open. Diff preferences are very personal, but for me I love this behaviour, especially for an autocross car because it gives me a ton of control of the "push" simply by modulating my right foot. I can get on the power early and it will settle the car and if I find I am pushing wide (which can definitely happen since the BMWs have such strong rear grip that it can overwhelm your front tires) then it only takes a light breathe on the throttle pedal to open the diff to allow your front tires to keep it on the line you want.

I will say that this is a very aggressive spec and for an autocross car where rotation is key, this is in my opinion what I want, but if I were build a track car, I would consider less steep of a ramp so that it didn't go so open on coast. What that would accomplish is more stability under braking and less likelihood of the car trying to rotate. A well setup car would respond to trailbraking in the desired way but would be a bit more stable while throwing it around.

The helical/Torsen style (ie a Quaife or the mFactory) is a great option for a street car, but is very seldom the optimal for race because once you are really throwing the car around, it's easy to unweight a corner to the point that you lose traction on that wheel and at that point, the torsen exhibits the same characteristic as an open differential that you are trying to avoid - sends all the power to the wheel with NO grip.

I really like a helical for a front wheel drive but it would never be my choice for a real competition RWD chassis. With that said, they are better behaved on the street and require no maintenance outside an occasional fluid change, there are no clutches to wear out, so this is definitely a consideration too.

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 1
      08-06-2015, 04:21 PM   #25
Bimmer-Bob
!
Bimmer-Bob's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
3,201
Posts

Drives: 2010 128i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Thanks for all the info. Looking forward to following your build.
__________________
____________________________
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2015, 12:14 AM   #26
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Front Suspension Install

Finally, some progress! Today, the goal was to tackle the front end of the car to install the Hotchkis swaybar and TC Kline coilovers. I forgot to take a photo of the Hotchkis accessories, but they are top notch - most bars give you bushings, but Hotchkis actually gives you new brackets, because they (along with the bushing) are fitted with grease fittings so you can grease your bushings without removing them. The little things go a long way - these parts are top quality and I am always happy to pay a bit more to fit them to my cars.


Stock 128i non-sport on top, Hotchkis 22834F below

In addition to the bar, it was finally time to fit some front coilovers. Obviously this photo is not set for the car yet, but all the goodies are here - Vorshlag camber plates, TC Kline DA coilovers, and Hyperco 350lb / 7in springs. To clear the tire, I set the top of the perch to exactly 8" above the knuckle and it should just clear the tire nicely, 8 1/8" will give a bit of extra comfort but is towards the very top of the adjustment on these particular shocks. Fortunately, not too much preload at that height so should be sufficient droop travel.



The trick to racecars is not to be good with tools, just have lots of friends who are... my good buddies (and BMW mechanics) Jeremy and Kyle are on hand with long prybars (what a pain getting those front struts out!) and lots of jokes about my abilities...



Waiting on some spacers still and then will have the wheels on. The rear is going to be done next week and then off for alignment and corner weighting. It's a little funny driving around with the rake, but it ironically doesn't look that different! Setting my ride height based purely on tire height, my fender to ground clearance went from 26 1/2" to 25 5/16" with maybe 25" being possible without interference from the wheels/tires - will have to test once the spacers are here.

On to the next task!

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2015, 12:15 AM   #27
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Strut Tower Woes

How about two posts in one day? After installing my front coilovers and swaybar today, I came across this:





Shame on me for not thinking about this in advance but now the problem is immediately obvious... my rebound adjustment is literally inaccessible with the OEM strut tower brace - an unacceptable outcome moving forward. As some of you know, I am preparing my 1 series to SCCA's STX class so while I know I will be replacing or modifying this brace, there are some rules to consider.

Quote:
SCCA Solo Rule 12.18: Strut Bar Definition
A transverse member connecting the upper or lower suspension mounting points at the front or rear of the car. Strut bars may be mounted only transversely across the car from upper left to upper right suspension mounting point and from lower left to lower right suspension mounting point. A two-point strut bar fastens only at the left and right suspension pointing points. A triangulated strut bar has a third area of attachment at the chassis (e.g., at the firewall/bulkhead). All connections to the vehicle must be bolted. No connection point to the chassis can be welded.

SCCA Solo Rule 14.2 G: Street Touring Strut Bar Rules
Strut bars per Section 12.18 are permitted with all types of suspension, subject to the following constraints:
1. A 2-point strut bar may be added, removed, modified, or substituted,
but only with another 2-point strut bar.
2. A triangulated (3-point) strut bar may be removed, modified, or substituted; substitution may be with either a triangulated or a 2-point strut bar. The connection to the chassis (e.g., firewall, bulkhead) must be in the standard location.
3. Lower suspension braces must be attached to the lower suspension
pickup point locations on the chassis within 2” (50.8mm) in any direction of the actual suspension attachment to the chassis.
4. Except for standard parts, no connections to other components are permitted. Additional holes may be drilled for mounting bolts. Only “bolt-on” attachment is permitted.
After reading the rules, it was apparent that my options are wide open within class rules to either modify this bar or replace it with a new bar, either a traditional tower to tower "2 point" style bar that is typical on an E36/E46 or another "3 point" bar that triangulates with the firewall. After doing some reading, anecdotally it appears that most people believe there is a real advantage to maintaining the triangulation and intuitively this makes sense, so I will restrict my options to that.

My requirements for a strut tower brace:
1) 3-point style
2) 3-bolt/full circle mounting to each strut tower
3) Complete access to the top of the shock

Options I identified:
1) Mason Engineering (Steel $550, Aluminum $600)
2) HPA Custom / M3 Based ($452)
3) OEM BMW 1M ($248)

The Mason engineering option looks to be a robust and well engineered solution and is a contender, but at $600 for the aluminum version I think that's well above what I am prepared to spend for somewhat of a trivial upgrade.

As far as I can tell, the HPA solution was introduced before the 1M part was available off the shelf, but now that it has, I have a hard time seeing the value in paying $452. It uses the same strut tower mounts and caps that are used in the 1M package for about $125, so the remaining $327 is for the two "arms" and the attachment point to the firewall.

I notice that the HPA solution has slots in the arms which is somewhat similar to the slots in the end of the 1M arms, I’d really prefer if both options had drilled holes. I am not sure this is an issue, but from a design perspective I would prefer to have fixed holes even if only for "theoretical" purposes. On the other hand - the firewall mount looks to be quite a bit more robust on the HPA/E9X M3 than the 1M OEM option, but I am not sure that this is necessary, and in addition it may require cutting some plastic, etc for installation per their website.

On that basis, I am going to proceed with the 1M solution for my car for the combination of OEM fit/finish and price effectiveness.

1M Strut Tower Brace Complete Part list:

Strut Tower Bar Driver’s Side - 51618055091
Strut Tower Bar Passenger’s Side - 51618055092
Strut Bar Driver’s Side - 51618051973
Strut Bar Passenger Side - 51618051974
Firewall Bolt - 07146954965
Mounting Stud (Qty 4) - 51717898374
Locknut (Qty 4) - 31316769731

I priced the whole kit at ECS tuning at $175.59 excluding the caps to cover the strut towers which are just extra weight and something I have to remove if I want to adjust my shocks. They are however super inexpensive if you would prefer to have them.

Ordering parts this week, keep everybody tuned!

Cheers,
Mark
__________________

Last edited by lowside67; 04-20-2019 at 09:44 AM..
Appreciate 1
      08-10-2015, 12:54 AM   #28
_Ryan_
Captain
No_Country
49
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: E87 130i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne, AU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 130i  [2.62]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
Strut Tower Woes

<snip>
My requirements for a strut tower brace:
1) 3-point style
2) 3-bolt/full circle mounting to each strut tower
3) Complete access to the top of the shock

Options I identified:
1) Mason Engineering (Steel $550, Aluminum $600)
2) HPA Custom / M3 Based ($452)
3) OEM BMW 1M ($248)

The Mason engineering option looks to be a robust and well engineered solution and is a contender, but at $600 for the aluminum version I think that's well above what I am prepared to spend for somewhat of a trivial upgrade.

As far as I can tell, the HPA solution was introduced before the 1M part was available off the shelf, but now that it has, I have a hard time seeing the value in paying $452. It uses the same strut tower mounts and caps that are used in the 1M package for about $125, so the remaining $327 is for the two "arms" and the attachment point to the firewall.

I notice that the HPA solution has slots in the arms which is somewhat similar to the slots in the end of the 1M arms, Iíd really prefer if both options had drilled holes. I am not sure this is an issue, but from a design perspective I would prefer to have fixed holes even if only for "theoretical" purposes. On the other hand - the firewall mount looks to be quite a bit more robust on the HPA/E9X M3 than the 1M OEM option, but I am not sure that this is necessary, and in addition it may require cutting some plastic, etc for installation per their website.

On that basis, I am going to proceed with the 1M solution for my car for the combination of OEM fit/finish and price effectiveness.

1M Strut Tower Brace Complete Part list:

Strut Tower Bar Driverís Side - 51618055091
Strut Tower Bar Passengerís Side - 51618055092
Strut Bar Driverís Side - 51618051973
Strut Bar Passenger Side - 51618051974
Firewall Bolt - 07146954965
Mounting Stud (Qty 4) - 51717898374
Locknut (Qty 4) - 31316769731

I priced the whole kit at ECS tuning at $175.59 excluding the caps to cover the strut towers which are just extra weight and something I have to remove if I want to adjust my shocks. They are however super inexpensive if you would prefer to have them.

Ordering parts this week, keep everybody tuned!

Cheers,
Mark
Good choice, the value for money on the 1M brace can't be beat! Shouldn't take more than 20mins to fit.
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2015, 09:34 AM   #29
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
381
Rep
4,578
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

I just unbolt that stupid bolt, shove the bar off to the side and adjust my rebound with tools.

Also, what's that nut ontop of the camber plate? Seems like you're going to sacrifice some camber because of that
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2015, 12:16 PM   #30
Amalfitano
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep
269
Posts

Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 135i  [0.00]
I have the HPA strut tower setup, since I started down the STU rabbit hole before the 1M came to market.

It's just sitting around doing nothing, I'm certainly open for offers.

One thing to note on that OEM choice, unless something changed between the 1m version and the M3 version for the piece that sits on top of the strut tower, those 3 nuts that go through that piece to mate to the studs are special. They have an extended sleave to get more threads to engage. I'm sure folks have figured that out, etc. or found it not to be an issue somewhere.

You can see the 6 sleeved nuts in the HPA pictures. It doesn't look like your parts list includes these 6 bolts (or they are included within the other parts? Usually oem parts don't do this...)
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2015, 04:30 AM   #31
_Ryan_
Captain
No_Country
49
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: E87 130i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne, AU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 130i  [2.62]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalfitano View Post
I have the HPA strut tower setup, since I started down the STU rabbit hole before the 1M came to market.

It's just sitting around doing nothing, I'm certainly open for offers.

One thing to note on that OEM choice, unless something changed between the 1m version and the M3 version for the piece that sits on top of the strut tower, those 3 nuts that go through that piece to mate to the studs are special. They have an extended sleave to get more threads to engage. I'm sure folks have figured that out, etc. or found it not to be an issue somewhere.

You can see the 6 sleeved nuts in the HPA pictures. It doesn't look like your parts list includes these 6 bolts (or they are included within the other parts? Usually oem parts don't do this...)
PN

6 / 51717895241 / Hex Nut, M8
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2015, 08:25 AM   #32
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
381
Rep
4,578
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Mark, no Nationals this year??
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2015, 09:31 AM   #33
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Definitely not - the car doesn't even have the wheels/tires yet - everything is taking absolutely forever. With a little luck spacers will show up tomorrow so will get the wheels/tires mounted up, still need to do the rear suspension next week and in theory it's ready for its first test. With that said, the front suspension is giving me some troubles - the adjusters do not seem to be turning at all. I am still digging into it - I left TCK a voicemail 3 days ago and still no call back...

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2015, 04:58 PM   #34
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2306
Rep
9,158
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ryan_ View Post
PN

6 / 51717895241 / Hex Nut, M8
Ryan, how are those PSS holding up? I'm really thinking about pulling the trigger...
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2015, 04:18 AM   #35
_Ryan_
Captain
No_Country
49
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: E87 130i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne, AU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 130i  [2.62]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Ryan, how are those PSS holding up? I'm really thinking about pulling the trigger...
PM me or dig up one of my threads on them, let's not trash this dudes thread
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2015, 10:47 AM   #36
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

It's all good man. My buddy and I actually did an autocross in his 128i on brand new PSSs a few weeks ago and it only took one (hot) day on smooth asphalt to show some wear on his tires. They seem to be awesome street tires but they aren't the fast autocross tire and yet somehow they seem to wear like one...

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2015, 07:11 PM   #37
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Front Suspension RE-Install

Let me tell you, if they gave out trophies for being behind schedule, there would be no need for me to actually compete at autocross. The combination of an incredibly busy season at work and numerous setbacks with parts availability for the car has been frustrating to say the least, but the light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little closer.



As I had bought this suspension used, I was assured it was a complete 1 series setup - it appears the camber plates are a hodgepodge of E36 (!) and E8X/E9X parts and all very old in the scheme of Vorshlag's offerings. When we did the initial install, we ran into an issue where the stock strut tower braces interfered with the top of the shocks which made adjustment impossible and worse yet, physically made contact so it was extremely noisy and generally not satisfactory. With some help from our friends at Vorshlag, we were able to order some parts to retrofit this old style to the newer style bushing setup.



Unfortunately to fix this, of course that meant undoing all the work from last week... at least we had a hoist this week. Once we pulled them out, we retrofitted one strut and compared the two:



As you can see, you can now actually access the adjuster and it is a much lower profile overall solution. The assembly is slightly different in stack height but it's close enough to be virtually moot. At the same time, when we reinstalled them in the car, we added the 1M strut brace.



It is worth noting that this retrofit got us vertical clearance and is a much cleaner and superior solution but did not yield any extra camber as the diameter of that nut is basically the same as the overheight "before" top nut. You can also use the factory covers if you like for a clean looking "stealth" installation if you do not plan to regularly adjust your shocks:



Then we went to install the rears... and found that we did not have all the necessary bushings to install the rear shocks. ARRGH! It is just a never ending cycle of $50 in shipping to overnight $15 worth of hardware to Canada. So for now, I have a "hot rod" with some epic rake:



The goal is to run our first autocross on Sunday the 20th, but it will be a mad rush to get it ship shape before then. We need to figure out what hardware we are missing and receive it, install, align the car, and ideally flush diff fluid and brakes while we are at it. Oh well, without goals, where would we be... Until next time!

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2015, 09:01 PM   #38
Bimmer-Bob
!
Bimmer-Bob's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
3,201
Posts

Drives: 2010 128i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Well, at least you're making progress! I feel you on the shipping charges - I've had numerous small orders this month for really minor things (wires, bulbs, etc.) that I didn't think far enough ahead on to consolidate.

The worst though was this one time when I ordered these obscure T-hooks that slide into the car's lower frame and allow the car to be lashed down to a trailer. I was getting ready for a cross-country move the next day, and the way I thought I was going to secure the car was NOT going to work. I got the hooks from Bimmerworld in VA (I lived in CA at the time) and was able to select "Next Day Air Early AM" as a delivery option. It was stupid how fast they shipped - I think they arrived on my doorstep within 12 hours. But man, I paid through the nose for it. The things we do for these cars. Oh well, live and learn.

Anyway, good luck with your build!
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2015, 05:26 AM   #39
z3papa
Captain
United_States
152
Rep
895
Posts

Drives: 11 E92 M3 ZCP, 07 335i
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bloomington IL

iTrader: (2)

Strut tower caps = looks good but are impediment to making adjustments. Nice progress. Sorting out the right plate configuration is definitely worthwhile.
__________________
TC Kline DA F-Street Legal Struts/Shocks for Sale https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1565633

2011.5 E92 M3 ZCP.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2015, 10:01 PM   #40
_Ryan_
Captain
No_Country
49
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: E87 130i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne, AU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 130i  [2.62]
I've managed to change my strut tops (once), springs (twice) and so on, without taking the entire strut out of the car.
- Loosen the top nut of the strut whilst everything is together (and car is in the air)
- Support LCA
- Remove top nut, carefully remove strut top/spring (might have to lower the collars if on a long spring).
- Fit top plate into car (finger tight)
- Fit strut nut
- Tighten shit carefully using two people
- Adjust height/camber
- Follow standard torquing process

**do at own risk, this worked for me when working with minimal tools and facilities**
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 01:35 PM   #41
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
56
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

Mark,

The switch to the 1M strut brace is what enabled you to adjust the shocks on top, correct? Just wanted to confirm before I make an identical purchase to create space for my JRZs adjustment.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2015, 01:22 AM   #42
lowside67
Second Lieutenant
121
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Yes exactly. I ordered mine from ECS Tuning.

Mark
__________________
Appreciate 1
      09-29-2015, 06:49 AM   #43
RyanDavies
Lieutenant
56
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2012 128i MSport
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (2)

Thanks a ton! Hope to see you next year!
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2015, 07:05 AM   #44
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
381
Rep
4,578
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
Yes exactly. I ordered mine from ECS Tuning.

Mark
I need to do mine as well, it was a PITA doing my method...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST