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      12-05-2017, 01:38 PM   #45
spxxx
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Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Also, want to note that I met a bunch of 1Addicts at Autoclub this past weekend! I want to thank everyone that came over and introduced themselves as I was working on the car throughout the day. I apologize if I was stand-offish to anyone, but I was pressed for time between every session working on the car. I was talking to someone while under the car almost the whole time!
Haha sounds like me, always tweaking shit - I sometimes feel like such a jerk working on the car and trying to have a convo in the paddock.
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      12-05-2017, 02:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
This car has always been edgy to drive, since day one when it was bone stock. I've been through 3 different notable suspension setups and the car has always been a bitch to drive, so I've just gotten used to it. The car wants to understeer a lot unless I drive it intentionally loose. I'd rather have oversteer than understeer, so I just deal with it.

Right now here is the setup:

Wheels:
- 17x9" w/ 255/40 F
- 18x9.5" w/ 265/35 R
- Nexen SUR4 tires

Suspension:
- TC Kline Singles w/ Vorshlag plates
- 336 lb/in front springs/ 700lb/in rear springs
- AKG 75D subframe bushings
- E90M3 OEM 27mm front bar (May go back to OEM 135i 26.5mm bar)
- 335xi OEM 15mm rear bar

Alignment:
Front: -3* camber, 0 toe
Rear: -2* camber, 1/8" toe-in

Car needs more camber front and rear, the Nexens need closer to -4 all around for optimum performance. I delaminated the outside edge of a rear tire when the camber was set to -1.6*. After that, I had a chat with Nexen and brought the car to them for some track talk. They advised -4 all around, though, my butt dyno is saying -4 up front and -3 out back would be good.

Need to figure out how to get more camber up front. Thinking SPC/SPL control arms. Out back, I need lower offset wheels and more fender work before I can add any more camber. I'm rubbing against the chassis under compression with the 265 Nexens on an 18x9.5 +57 wheel.

Everyone should check their fuel filler tube in the rear wheel well. I nearly burned all the way through mine with the fat tires out back. Additionally, my chassis has burn marks from tire contact under compression, hence the need for a lower offset wheel.

With the stock rear suspension arms, it looks like I can get around -2.5-8* of camber and still have enough toe adjustment to get it in spec. At least, as per my friend's DIY alignment tools and some eyeballing measurements on my part. Once I address tire clearance, I'll bump the camber figures up higher. With the rear camber adjusted from -1.6* to -2.0* rear tire wear is much better, but still not ideal.
Why are you running staggered diameter wheels? You should just run my setup for stock fender, max effort. 18x9 +42 APEX ARC-8, 255/35/18 Nexen Sur4G's all around. 3mm spacer up front.

I'm maxed around -3* front as well, you'll need to either notch your strut tower or run an offset lower control arm bushing, or, an adjustable lower control arm.

You have NOWHERE near enough rear camber, and that's a big reason your car is so tail happy. I'm running -3 out back and it feels great.

Do you have an LSD? Not to critique your driving, but your turn in super aggressively and it almost looks like you're initiating oversteer on purpose. Of course you'd rather have oversteer than understeer, but it just looks like you're far on the oversteer spectrum and actually need to dial in some understeer to correct.
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      12-05-2017, 04:11 PM   #47
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Why are you running staggered diameter wheels? You should just run my setup for stock fender, max effort. 18x9 +42 APEX ARC-8, 255/35/18 Nexen Sur4G's all around. 3mm spacer up front.

I'm maxed around -3* front as well, you'll need to either notch your strut tower or run an offset lower control arm bushing, or, an adjustable lower control arm.

You have NOWHERE near enough rear camber, and that's a big reason your car is so tail happy. I'm running -3 out back and it feels great.

Do you have an LSD? Not to critique your driving, but your turn in super aggressively and it almost looks like you're initiating oversteer on purpose. Of course you'd rather have oversteer than understeer, but it just looks like you're far on the oversteer spectrum and actually need to dial in some understeer to correct.
- 17" tires are a lot cheaper, and I got a rad deal on a pair of rare 17x9 wheels that fit up front.

- I'm not notching the towers of a BMW track car, that's just asking for trouble. I'll likely go with afternarket arms. Need to do research since no one seems to run SPC/SPL stuff, despite both brands being quality.

- Figured on the rear camber. However, until I get new wheels, or longer studs and longer spacers, I'm maxed out on inside clearance.

- MFactory helical diff. The car will still understeer a lot if I don't turn in super aggressively and throttle-steer it. And oversteer is faster and more adjustable than understeer, so it results in faster lap times.
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      12-05-2017, 05:52 PM   #48
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In regards to rear camber, what arms are y'all running? I need more than 1.6* so so so bad. It was embarrassing comparing my exit speeds with a similar power/weight m3 with more rear camber. Thanks for the tip @berns - in regards to the front I just notched mine about 3mm and am happy with -3.2 up front. Less understeer and roll over and my tires are wearing better too.

One thing that may be helping @berns crush it is his LSD, helicals are pretty suboptimal for heat, high power cars like ours and I think he's running a custom clutch plate diff if I'm not mistaken.

FYI - checked times and my time was a 2:01.01 Sunday at Buttonwillow.

RSRR tires
255/265 staggered
40* temps
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      12-05-2017, 06:26 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
In regards to rear camber, what arms are y'all running? I need more than 1.6* so so so bad. It was embarrassing comparing my exit speeds with a similar power/weight m3 with more rear camber. Thanks for the tip @berns - in regards to the front I just notched mine about 3mm and am happy with -3.2 up front. Less understeer and roll over and my tires are wearing better too.

One thing that may be helping @berns crush it is his LSD, helicals are pretty suboptimal for heat, high power cars like ours and I think he's running a custom clutch plate diff if I'm not mistaken.

FYI - checked times and my time was a 2:01.01 Sunday at Buttonwillow.

RSRR tires
255/265 staggered
40* temps
Rear suspension arms are stock, and my car isn't that low. Is something bent on your car? I was able to hit -3 camber out back when I played around the rear adjustment. However, I didn't try to set the toe at that -3 mark, so unsure if the factory arms have enough adjustment at that point. At -2 I had tons of toe adjustment to get things wherever I wanted them.

Disagree on the diff. It's a helical gear, it doesn't care about temperatures, it's not like a viscous-coupling diff. It's not as tight on lock-up as a clutch-type diff, but miles ahead of the stock e-diff. I had no problems leaving two deep, black rubbery lines around a few corners to celebrate after my 1:52 lap at Autoclub.

We're all at right around the 2:00 mark around Buttonwillow with similar setups. The race is on the to see who sub-2's first.
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      12-05-2017, 07:06 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
In regards to rear camber, what arms are y'all running? I need more than 1.6* so so so bad. It was embarrassing comparing my exit speeds with a similar power/weight m3 with more rear camber. Thanks for the tip @berns - in regards to the front I just notched mine about 3mm and am happy with -3.2 up front. Less understeer and roll over and my tires are wearing better too.

One thing that may be helping @berns crush it is his LSD, helicals are pretty suboptimal for heat, high power cars like ours and I think he's running a custom clutch plate diff if I'm not mistaken.

FYI - checked times and my time was a 2:01.01 Sunday at Buttonwillow.

RSRR tires
255/265 staggered
40* temps
Rear suspension arms are stock, and my car isn't that low. Is something bent on your car? I was able to hit -3 camber out back when I played around the rear adjustment. However, I didn't try to set the toe at that -3 mark, so unsure if the factory arms have enough adjustment at that point. At -2 I had tons of toe adjustment to get things wherever I wanted them.

Disagree on the diff. It's a helical gear, it doesn't care about temperatures, it's not like a viscous-coupling diff. It's not as tight on lock-up as a clutch-type diff, but miles ahead of the stock e-diff. I had no problems leaving two deep, black rubbery lines around a few corners to celebrate after my 1:52 lap at Autoclub.

We're all at right around the 2:00 mark around Buttonwillow with similar setups. The race is on the to see who sub-2's first.
Yeah I just wonder how much a clutch type LSD helps, it's undoubtedly better than the helical option. I love the reliability + warranty of the mfactory though

Have you guys thought about turbo upgrades or power stuff? I've been pretty happy with the stage 2 tune, I doubt we can really use much more power with the unless we go widebody and run 285+ square since we're all on street tires.
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      12-05-2017, 07:55 PM   #51
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Power output from the stock turbos is fine, I just I need all of it, all of the time. Going to build a second oil cooler and plumb it into my existing big single unit I build last year.
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      12-06-2017, 07:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
I'm not notching the towers of a BMW track car, that's just asking for trouble.
I get it; but I really think these cars do not have the same problems as the previous generations. I know your stance because E46/E36/E30 had weak towers but the E82 has a pretty robust setup.
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      12-06-2017, 11:43 AM   #53
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I run the BimmerWorld adjustable rear camber and toe arms. Also running the BimmerWorld precisions rear spring arm bearings, paired with AKG lower shock mounts, Power Flex Black subframe and diff bushings, and a Wavetrac LSD with the 3.46 gearing. The rear end of the car feels awesome. I'm also maxed out on rear camber though, so I'm going to see if BW can make me some shorter arms with more adjustment.

Adjustable front lower control arms would be the ticket to more neg camber without cutting anything. I'm with you, Ginger_Extract , so that's the route I plan to go. Offset bushings aren't my favorite -- adjustability is everything.

As for power output, spxxx I think it's a one thing a time, kind of situation. Seems you make a lot of changes constantly, so I'd dial it in, get it solid, then play with aero, dial that in, and when you have more traction than you know what to do with, add power. But power isn't what's holding you back from a sub-2 lap at Button. We have more than 75% of dudes running sub-2, I'm sure.

And for the record, the Solo Motorsports 135i Time Attack car has notched towers as well. They don't even look reinforced, and this thing is tracked HARD. It'll just be more of a last resort for me.

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      12-06-2017, 05:51 PM   #54
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I get it; but I really think these cars do not have the same problems as the previous generations. I know your stance because E46/E36/E30 had weak towers but the E82 has a pretty robust setup.
I've seen modern BMWs and, specifically, two E90 street cars, with deformed towers. These cars were not tracked at all, either. It's not a risk I'm willing to take for an extra tenth or two of camber. YMMV.
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      12-06-2017, 05:54 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berns View Post
I run the BimmerWorld adjustable rear camber and toe arms. Also running the BimmerWorld precisions rear spring arm bearings, paired with AKG lower shock mounts, Power Flex Black subframe and diff bushings, and a Wavetrac LSD with the 3.46 gearing. The rear end of the car feels awesome. I'm also maxed out on rear camber though, so I'm going to see if BW can make me some shorter arms with more adjustment.

Adjustable front lower control arms would be the ticket to more neg camber without cutting anything. I'm with you, Ginger_Extract , so that's the route I plan to go. Offset bushings aren't my favorite -- adjustability is everything.
We definitely need to meet up. Curious to see how your car feels with those Bimmerworld parts in the rear suspension. Though, I am surprised you're running out of adjustment when I can hit similar numbers with stock arms...
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      12-06-2017, 08:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by berns View Post
I run the BimmerWorld adjustable rear camber and toe arms. Also running the BimmerWorld precisions rear spring arm bearings, paired with AKG lower shock mounts, Power Flex Black subframe and diff bushings, and a Wavetrac LSD with the 3.46 gearing. The rear end of the car feels awesome. I'm also maxed out on rear camber though, so I'm going to see if BW can make me some shorter arms with more adjustment.

Adjustable front lower control arms would be the ticket to more neg camber without cutting anything. I'm with you, Ginger_Extract , so that's the route I plan to go. Offset bushings aren't my favorite -- adjustability is everything.
We definitely need to meet up. Curious to see how your car feels with those Bimmerworld parts in the rear suspension. Though, I am surprised you're running out of adjustment when I can hit similar numbers with stock arms...
I wish there was a stronger contingent of track E82s in my area, I too want to see how your rear-end feels...

My problem is 100% that I'm always tweaking things and rarely isolate a change for testing sake. Speed Ventures on the 16/17th at Buttonwillow?
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      12-06-2017, 09:07 PM   #57
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I wish there was a stronger contingent of track E82s in my area, I too want to see how your rear-end feels...

My problem is 100% that I'm always tweaking things and rarely isolate a change for testing sake. Speed Ventures on the 16/17th at Buttonwillow?
Reach-arounds and feeling rear ends are a given at a BMW driver meetup.

I was originally going to do 12/16 at Buttonwillow...Until my girlfriend reminded me we have a wedding to attend that weekend Looking intently at January dates. Need to get out there while the weather is ideal.
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      12-06-2017, 09:18 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
I wish there was a stronger contingent of track E82s in my area, I too want to see how your rear-end feels...

My problem is 100% that I'm always tweaking things and rarely isolate a change for testing sake. Speed Ventures on the 16/17th at Buttonwillow?
Reach-arounds and feeling rear ends are a given at a BMW driver meetup.

I was originally going to do 12/16 at Buttonwillow...Until my girlfriend reminded me we have a wedding to attend that weekend Looking intently at January dates. Need to get out there while the weather is ideal.
Who gets married in December? Tell them that their wedding is interfering with your plans, I'm sure they'll understand.

We'll have to plan a reach-around / rear-end grabbing 1addicts take over Buttonwillow day sometime soon. Or we can ball-out and rent Thunderhill, it's super cheap actually during the winter (think I could get pricing down to the ~$350ea) for a private day with ~10-15 peeps
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      12-20-2017, 04:27 PM   #59
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Other: JB4 map 5 and e40, BMS intake, catless DP, Hawk DTC70 pads, Motul fluid, stainless lines, homemade brake ducts, TCKline Coilovers, M3 sways, Dinan camber plates -3 front / -2 rear, 3.46:1 Mfactory helical LSD, white line rear subframe bushings.
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      12-21-2017, 06:05 AM   #60
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Buttonwillow CW13: 1:59.51
Tires: Staggered Federal RSRR 255&265/35/18
45* temperatures
MHD Stage 2 OTS Tune : don't ask
KW V3 Coilover
Other stuff
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      12-21-2017, 06:07 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by berns View Post
I run the BimmerWorld adjustable rear camber and toe arms. Also running the BimmerWorld precisions rear spring arm bearings, paired with AKG lower shock mounts, Power Flex Black subframe and diff bushings, and a Wavetrac LSD with the 3.46 gearing. The rear end of the car feels awesome. I'm also maxed out on rear camber though, so I'm going to see if BW can make me some shorter arms with more adjustment.

Adjustable front lower control arms would be the ticket to more neg camber without cutting anything. I'm with you, Ginger_Extract , so that's the route I plan to go. Offset bushings aren't my favorite -- adjustability is everything.
We definitely need to meet up. Curious to see how your car feels with those Bimmerworld parts in the rear suspension. Though, I am surprised you're running out of adjustment when I can hit similar numbers with stock arms...
What's your rear camber %?

I installed the rear SPL arms and I'm finally breaking 2* neg camber.
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      12-27-2017, 03:40 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Buttonwillow CW13: 1:59.51
Tires: Staggered Federal RSRR 255&265/35/18
45* temperatures
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
What's your rear camber %?

I installed the rear SPL arms and I'm finally breaking 2* neg camber.
Congrats on the sub-2, that's rad!

Currently at -2* camber with 1/8" total toe-in out back. Stock arms, not even that low. Still need more, these Nexens need all the camber they can get for optimal performance.
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      12-28-2017, 03:18 PM   #63
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Here is my fastest around Spa Francorchamp in Belgium back in May

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Link to video or results :


The "thudding" sound was actually a slightly loose left rear wheel. After that lap I went into the paddock.
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      01-13-2018, 09:29 PM   #64
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Hey what about Milkywave for Laguna Seca?

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      01-23-2018, 03:22 AM   #65
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Hey what about Milkywave for Laguna Seca?

Damn that is some serious compression!!!!!!!!!
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      01-23-2018, 12:23 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
Here is my fastest around Spa Francorchamp in Belgium back in May

Username of car owner: Elsabor67
Driver Name:Nick Batista
Track:Spa Francorchamps, Belgium
Configuration: GP course (only layout, 4.3 Miles/7.0 KM)
Lap Time: 3:10
Tires: Federal RS-R 255/35-R18 on Style 264 rear 18x8.5 wheels
Link to video or results :


The "thudding" sound was actually a slightly loose left rear wheel. After that lap I went into the paddock.
you need some stiffer transmission bushings lol. All I saw in that video was your shifter rolling all over the place as the car rolled in turns lol
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135i: E30 map by TwistedTuning, VRSF DP, Kerscher +15mm fenders, Kosei K8R 255/40/17, M3 control arms, UUC trans mounts, DV+, Whiteline RSFB, 5" intercooler, Charge Pipe, PC925 (23lb), UUC SSK, YCW Coilovers 6k/16k, Monroe shock mounts, Diff lockdown, Catch Can, N20 TMAP, 335is clutch, SMFW, 034 engine mounts, M3 Steering rack
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