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      06-28-2018, 11:28 AM   #23
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      06-28-2018, 11:47 AM   #24
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I wouldn't say that. A lot of European countries have a high cost of living and virtually no jobs for college grads.

Employment rates for those under 25 in Europe. Yeah it ain't exactly all good in the hood.
Not all that different for that demographic in the US. EU is at 15.6% and we are hovering around 13% for those under 20. 21 to 25 we are definitely doing better though.

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm

I wonder if the % of kids under 25 in college impact those numbers? With more "free" options for college for kids in the EU are there more of them in school and not in the workforce, thus impacting those numbers?
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      06-28-2018, 11:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by c63er View Post
For every action there is a reaction.

The harder one goes right, the harder another goes left and vice versa.

These people are simply a reflection of the times. Many of us are used to and pine for moderate and middle of the road people who are generic and not much to talk about.

But that is not what we are right now.

The seed has already planted many years ago that it is all doom and gloom and we are on a downward trajectory. Because if you are not booming then you must be a bust. It's false, but that is certainly the mentality right now.

So the electorate is stuck in a "change" mentality where the old order must go because they ruined everything. Everyone is rightfully scared of getting unseated by more extreme or forceful and outspoken parts of their own camps.

In the end there's nothing wrong with it when you recognize that it's a reflection of us. Anecdotally I talk to people who for years and years had no obvious political opinion and truth be told low levels of education, who now suddenly have opinions on every single event. They are interested in politics now and so these elections will reflect the fact that the "average Joe" from each area will be more involved. The winning candidate will be more reflective of the attitudes of the people in the area.

People are more and more polarized now. The people who consider themselves middle of the road and used to be the undeniable 400lb gorilla in the room or the so called "silent majority" are now a smaller and less powerful group.


My singular silver lining for this particular cloud we are currently in is this: Perhaps this continued migration to the poles by the two majority parties will open up space for an honest-to-gods viable 3rd party? I'm not holding my breath, but...
I'm not sure that would be a good idea.... as I understand it, a number of the EU countries (Germany) have a number of political parties, and it essentially entrenched a single party. It's too hard to coalesce people to vote someone out - if that person (Merkle) is unpopular, people who want to vote for someone to replace (her), there are too many choices, and nothing gets done.

This is my understanding- not saying I'm right
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      06-28-2018, 11:55 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm not sure that would be a good idea.... as I understand it, a number of the EU countries (Germany) have a number of political parties, and it essentially entrenched a single party. It's too hard to coalesce people to vote someone out - if that person (Merkle) is unpopular, people who want to vote for someone to replace (her), there are too many choices, and nothing gets done.

This is my understanding- not saying I'm right
Possibly true, but choosing between the giant douche and the shit sandwich isn't exactly paradise, either. Right?
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      06-28-2018, 11:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm not sure that would be a good idea.... as I understand it, a number of the EU countries (Germany) have a number of political parties, and it essentially entrenched a single party. It's too hard to coalesce people to vote someone out - if that person (Merkle) is unpopular, people who want to vote for someone to replace (her), there are too many choices, and nothing gets done.

This is my understanding- not saying I'm right
Possibly true, but choosing between the giant douche and the shit sandwich isn't exactly paradise, either. Right?
Just a higher volume: Multiple douches at a Shit Buffet.
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      06-28-2018, 12:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Possibly true, but choosing between the giant douche and the shit sandwich isn't exactly paradise, either. Right?
Exactly, that's why we chose Trump to reject the establishment R's bullshit, and the dems almost chose Bernie as a rejection of the corporatist neolib D bullshit.

It's hilarious watching corporatist dems scramble to rebrand themselves as open borders commie-lites as they realize that the Identity Politics Golem they helped to create has taken over their party.

In a parallel dimension the Dems nominated Jim Webb and all this lunacy never happened, but sadly that wasnt our fate
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      06-28-2018, 12:19 PM   #29
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Exactly, that's why we chose Trump to reject the establishment R's bullshit, and the dems almost chose Bernie as a rejection of the corporatist neolib D bullshit.

It's hilarious watching corporatist dems scramble to rebrand themselves as open borders commie-lites as they realize that the Identity Politics Golem they helped to create has taken over their party.

In a parallel dimension the Dems nominated Jim Webb and all this lunacy never happened, but sadly that wasnt our fate
Uh, Trump was the giant douche in that example, but you're right - that's why I voted for him. He was slightly less awful than the only realistic alternative.
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      06-28-2018, 04:15 PM   #30
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not so much the number of parties...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm not sure that would be a good idea.... as I understand it, a number of the EU countries (Germany) have a number of political parties, and it essentially entrenched a single party. It's too hard to coalesce people to vote someone out - if that person (Merkle) is unpopular, people who want to vote for someone to replace (her), there are too many choices, and nothing gets done.

This is my understanding- not saying I'm right
It is rather various types of proportional representation and that gives rise to both coalition government, the difficulty of voting a coalition out and numerous parties.
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      06-29-2018, 09:36 PM   #31
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Absolutely hilarious. She's as much a socialist as "million dollar a year" Bernie.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ealthy-enclave
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      06-29-2018, 09:53 PM   #32
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Absolutely hilarious. She's as much a socialist as "million dollar a year" Bernie.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ealthy-enclave
She was one of his main campaign manager/ organizers.

So basically that means she went from being a college student to a political activist and has no concept of a real job!

Pretty stereotypical liberal!
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      06-29-2018, 10:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dieselunlimited View Post
She was one of his main campaign manager/ organizers.

So basically that means she went from being a college student to a political activist and has no concept of a real job!

Pretty stereotypical liberal!
She sure knows how to spend our money though!
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      06-30-2018, 12:19 AM   #34
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She's scary. People like her will be elected by the uneducated left much like Trump was elected by the uneducated right.

She kind of reminds me of someone I know. Zero experience, zero credentials but 100% feels she's 100% right about everything.
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      06-30-2018, 12:49 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselunlimited View Post
She was one of his main campaign manager/ organizers.

So basically that means she went from being a college student to a political activist and has no concept of a real job!

Pretty stereotypical liberal!
Now lets look at some non alternative facts about liberals and conservatives.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/04/...ucated-adults/
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      06-30-2018, 01:13 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
I wouldn't say that. A lot of European countries have a high cost of living and virtually no jobs for college grads.

Employment rates for those under 25 in Europe. Yeah it ain't exactly all good in the hood.
I am not sure what is the way they calculate this numbers so it is not clear how to compare them to unemployment here.
Also i can garantee u many of these people have better standart of living than some so called employed people here.
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      06-30-2018, 02:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
She sure knows how to spend our money though!
Why do u guys think that people who need goverment help are the problem. Just spend 1 hour on the internet and look where all the money are going it is public data just people like u choose to ignore it.
If this continues
https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/...imate-factors/
More and more people will elect socialists because they need them.
We cant have people working for 8$/hour if low income familly is with income of 117k/year
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      06-30-2018, 06:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Not all that different for that demographic in the US. EU is at 15.6% and we are hovering around 13% for those under 20. 21 to 25 we are definitely doing better though.

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm

I wonder if the % of kids under 25 in college impact those numbers? With more "free" options for college for kids in the EU are there more of them in school and not in the workforce, thus impacting those numbers?
That is one thing. Another thing to consider is that the EU is not federalised, and countries with the Euro have one Central Bank and many different Ministers of Economics. That means that monetary policy cannot work in tandem with fiscal policy. So the EU is (currently) running a structurally inefficient "government" and yet is still doing pretty well overall.

Please also understand, that Greece (who is participating in the numbers, and dragging them down) has been in a 10y recession for reasons that are generally related to the EU but are mostly an idiosyncratic situation that was building up for literally decades.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm not sure that would be a good idea.... as I understand it, a number of the EU countries (Germany) have a number of political parties, and it essentially entrenched a single party. It's too hard to coalesce people to vote someone out - if that person (Merkle) is unpopular, people who want to vote for someone to replace (her), there are too many choices, and nothing gets done.

This is my understanding- not saying I'm right
One (cynical) way of looking at things is that nothing gets done. However, the way us Europeans are looking at it, is that things are done with consensus. To black & white (or red & blue) Americans this seems incomprehensible or "not a way to do things", but things do happen here, and people are happy and tensions might be high in the context of the European normal, but in comparison with the shit-show that American politics have been in the last 15 years it's pretty fine. You guys have completely lost it with the extreme polarisation; and it's completely unnecessary.

And while you're bickering like kids amongst you, the median household is not doing any better year-over-year for the first time in (literally) hundreds of years. You're leaving people behind, the median American is losing out, and they go and vote for a guy that gives tax cuts to the rich so that they can stay even further back, and provide fiscal stimulus to a late-cycle economy.
Just take a breath, stop the juvenile name calling, and just look at what the hell you're doing to your country for a moment...
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      06-30-2018, 06:41 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Don Molina View Post
That is one thing. Another thing to consider is that the EU is not federalised, and countries with the Euro have one Central Bank and many different Ministers of Economics. That means that monetary policy cannot work in tandem with fiscal policy. So the EU is (currently) running a structurally inefficient "government" and yet is still doing pretty well overall.

Please also understand, that Greece (who is participating in the numbers, and dragging them down) has been in a 10y recession for reasons that are generally related to the EU but are mostly an idiosyncratic situation that was building up for literally decades.






One (cynical) way of looking at things is that nothing gets done. However, the way us Europeans are looking at it, is that things are done with consensus. To black & white (or red & blue) Americans this seems incomprehensible or "not a way to do things", but things do happen here, and people are happy and tensions might be high in the context of the European normal, but in comparison with the shit-show that American politics have been in the last 15 years it's pretty fine. You guys have completely lost it with the extreme polarisation; and it's completely unnecessary.

And while you're bickering like kids amongst you, the median household is not doing any better year-over-year for the first time in (literally) hundreds of years. You're leaving people behind, the median American is losing out, and they go and vote for a guy that gives tax cuts to the rich so that they can stay even further back, and provide fiscal stimulus to a late-cycle economy.
Just take a breath, stop the juvenile name calling, and just look at what the hell you're doing to your country for a moment...
You're incorrect. Please stop the political handwringing and use actual data. Median household income is up, once again. We are at pre-recession levels of income and among the highest levels in nearly 20 years.

Cheers-mk
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      06-30-2018, 07:01 AM   #40
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She won with only 5% turn out
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      06-30-2018, 09:32 AM   #41
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Now lets look at some non alternative facts about liberals and conservatives.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/04/...ucated-adults/
Higher education equates to what exactly?....

How are all those worthless degrees working out for people these days, especially when the trend has been going for applicant with greater experience rather than education.
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      06-30-2018, 09:49 AM   #42
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Higher education equates to what exactly?....

How are all those worthless degrees working out for people these days, especially when the trend has been going for applicant with greater experience rather than education.
My friend, overall, educational attainment equates to greater lifetime income. The data is there and irrefutable. There are outliers but overall higher educational equals higher lifetime income.

The problem is this: some people go into massive debt to get a degree from a prestigious institution and wind up a quarter million or more in debt. This is where the disconnect is between theory and reality.

Cheers, my friend - mk
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      06-30-2018, 10:04 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
My friend, overall, educational attainment equates to greater lifetime income. The data is there and irrefutable. There are outliers but overall higher educational equals higher lifetime income.

The problem is this: some people go into massive debt to get a degree from a prestigious institution and wind up a quarter million or more in debt. This is where the disconnect is between theory and reality.

Cheers, my friend - mk
Sure, I wouldn't debate that in major metro areas..... as an average though trades and skills equate to much greater income.

The point I'm making is not relating to income. On that note though....

Good friend of mine started a NG completions business back in 97 following his field experience with a competitor....

Before he died his worth was $5 Billion, and this was with no college degree....
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      06-30-2018, 10:28 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dieselunlimited View Post
Sure, I wouldn't debate that in major metro areas..... as an average though trades and skills equate to much greater income.

The point I'm making is not relating to income. On that note though....

Good friend of mine started a NG completions business back in 97 following his field experience with a competitor....

Before he died his worth was $5 Billion, and this was with no college degree....
Fully get this. The most successful person I personally know very well barely graduated HS. They are major outliers.

With respect to trades and skills more training, certs, and experience is a real competitive advantage, 100% correct. The amounts they are paying for specialty welding in this area are INSANE!!

There are too many people who slip through the cracks that could do extremely well if they learned a trade. The US Education system has failed the population especially badly in this respect.

Cheers-mk
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