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      09-13-2013, 10:58 AM   #23
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Per the coding, I'm with you - I don't really know why the car would need it, but I do know that the procedure is outlined in the BBK installation instructions (car must be coded with "retrofit - sport brakes" or something like that), so it's not like some dealer made up crap. The only thing I can think of is that it tweaks some of the computer systems that interact with the brakes (ABS/DSC/etc.) while obviously doing nothing to the brakes directly. Who knows? I have a tough time that BMW would write it into the instructions if it were complete BS.

And no, I'm not at all experiencing fade, but I was planning on going for a more aggressive compound pad, like HP+, which I'm sure you know is a pretty popular AX pad. My impression was that people did this to stop better. Is it just about feel, then?
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      09-13-2013, 11:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Per the coding, I'm with you - I don't really know why the car would need it, but I do know that the procedure is outlined in the BBK installation instructions (car must be coded with "retrofit - sport brakes" or something like that), so it's not like some dealer made up crap. The only thing I can think of is that it tweaks some of the computer systems that interact with the brakes (ABS/DSC/etc.) while obviously doing nothing to the brakes directly. Who knows? I have a tough time that BMW would write it into the instructions if it were complete BS.

And no, I'm not at all experiencing fade, but I was planning on going for a more aggressive compound pad, like HP+, which I'm sure you know is a pretty popular AX pad. My impression was that people did this to stop better. Is it just about feel, then?
Yes and no... I guess the way I'd phrase it is that pad is more conducive to performance (auto-x) driving. Hawk HP+ have better initial bite, but picture this for a moment. If you had a pad that was overy touchy/sensitive, just imagine how annoying it'd get during city driving. Folks have a tend to drag the brakes during normal driving when they approach a red light. They slowly get on it and increase pressure as they get closer to the light. But if the pad had significantly more intial bite, the brake would be harder to modulate. It'd feel more like an on/off switch, and your body weight would constantly shfit back and forth abuptly.

But when it comes to auto-x, you're not dragging the brakes nor are you doing hi speed hard stops as if you were on a road course. You want to shed enough speed quickly to set yourself up for the next turn and quickly get back on throttle. This is actually one area where auto-x and road courses differ; auto-x has very choppy input, road course requires smooth inputs.

Some may prefer better initial bite even on street (and that's why many run Hawk HP+ on street), others prefer a more linear feel. I'm more of the latter, plus I can't stand how bad Hawk pads squeal and dust. Hope this answers your question.
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      09-13-2013, 11:46 AM   #25
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I can see this thread has adopted a more constructive tone as of late, although I would like to say that the high and mighty attitude is discouraging to the BMW enthusiast who is not quite as knowledgeable as he/she would like to be. I can't spell breaks either, HELP ME!
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      09-13-2013, 12:10 PM   #26
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The performance brakes certainly have a wider selection of pads, at least as far as I've seen. Might be a good option for autocross in that case.
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      09-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
Man speaks the truth, stock calipers will stop the car the same as a bbk. End of day comes down to tires.
Nice to have some backup. Clearly you have more patience than me.

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Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
So pad size doesn't mean anything? And pad compound only affects initial bite, modulation, etc? What is the purpose of a larger caliper? Surely not just to dissipate heat? What'e the benefit of having multiple sets of pistons if a larger caliper is just basically a heat sink?
As 3002 Tii said, it's just a larger heat sink. Most people get the larger calipers because they have more bling, not for the function increase.

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Originally Posted by BlueforMonaco View Post
I can see this thread has adopted a more constructive tone as of late, although I would like to say that the high and mighty attitude is discouraging to the BMW enthusiast who is not quite as knowledgeable as he/she would like to be. I can't spell breaks either, HELP ME!
It gets a bit tiresome when you see the same misinformation repeated time and time again, but I hear you. Come on into the 128i engine section, lots of good constructive info there for your car.
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      09-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta
rears for the 128i in the kit are just painted silver &new vs your current ones that may already have some rust.

for track , many of the 128i guys here just go with pads vs other kits.

over all 128i options are:
pads, & some slotted rotors of stock brakes
BMW Perf 128i kit
135i brakes or 135i BMWPerf kits - buy you lose hand brake and have to cut your rear heat sheild/ dust shield ( i have this, no regrets for my street driving)
Racing brake piston upgrades, and even rotor upgrades for 128i Perf & 135i brakes
BBK's
The 128i doesn't have the same rear brakes as the 130i? I thought they did?

That sucks, 135i brakes bolt on well for me haha
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      09-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #29
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I've had this "discussion" with Stig in the past and had to eat crow cause he was right. That said, I've tracked my car only once. I had no brake fade at all. I also didn't experience the overheated pistons that the 135i guys do. Is that cause I'm slower and more inexperienced around the track, or I'm easier on the brakes, I don't know. What I do know is they look great. That is really the only fact I can say about them. Have any 128i guys that track with the perf BBK had the overheating problems of the 135i, or do we not have enough power to get them to the failure point a full bolt on 135i has. Please chime in if you have any experience.
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      09-15-2013, 03:11 AM   #30
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I remember reading that we can use the BMW X3 3.0si's brake assembly on our 1ers. Doesn't that sound like a more appealing route to take since the rotors and calipers are larger?

Seriously don't flame me, I just change brakes with my dad, I am not a professor who gives lectures on the subject.
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      09-26-2013, 08:09 AM   #31
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I've read the 135i brake thread (it has a sticky) but it doesn't seem like the issue is totally sorted. The ceramic topped pistons are a good bit of the issue but it also seems like the relatively thin rotor is part of the problem. The component you want to cool is the rotor. You don't want the caliper getting hot - that is where the fluid is - you want the rotor cooling off so the caliper doesn't get too hot. Bigger rotors with larger air passages with slots or holes and brake ducts are all ways of cooling off the rotor (I like slots more than holes because holes are also stress risers).

I would expect a little difference in stopping from larger rotors because they will get hot more slowly. One panic stop doesn't heat the brakes a ton but still they should be slightly better - a few feet (maybe less). The primary advantage is clearly with hard frequent use - like on a race track. That is where the heat builds up and the cooling advantage would be experienced.

Pads have different characteristics. Racing pads are made to function better hot. On everyday driving, they may actually not stop you as quickly and may require more force.

135i and 128i brakes are quite different. 135 brakes have a bolted in position caliper with pistons to push the pads against the rotor on both sides. 128i brakes are the more typical sliding variety where a piston on the inside pushes and the caliper moves to pinch the outside pad against the rotor. 135i design seems more elegant but there are also a lot of pistons and seals. 128i type is undoubtedly lower in cost but works quite well.

Anybody try 330i rotors and calipers? Is the rotor larger?

It isn't high "bling" but I painted my stock 128i calipers. The bling factor is consistent with the cost (about $20, I used a brush on duplicolor kit).
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      09-26-2013, 11:01 AM   #32
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Did u just misspelled pedal?....oh no, u are really showing ur lack of understanding of the BMW brake system!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
Oh wow... I mis-spelled brakes once and that speaks volumes. Volumes of what? It speaks more volumes of you that you had nothing else productive to say beside I mis-spelled brakes.

So the fact that the BMW performance Brake Kit is not only larger than the standard 128i brakes it does not dissipate heat better? is that what you are saying? cause that is what is sounds like you are saying.

And this so called catastrophic failure in high load, I and pretty sure you are referring to using them on the track. This already a known issue and is mute. That alone does not make these brakes fake.

When the rotors crack on Porche under excessive heat from track use... do we all yell "THE BRAKES ARE FAKE". I think not. And yes I am only talking about the brakes or is this not such a known fact as the BMW Performance Brake kit as such high failure rates?

So far you have no told me anything new oh guru of brakes and all things that have the power to stop moving object.



Yup, I like skidding to stops when I press hard on my brake peddle in an emergency situation. I am just saying
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      09-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #33
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I don't know about "matacuero" but my standard excuse is engineers can't spell. That is what spell check programs and administrative assistants are for.
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      04-07-2015, 02:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
Do you never park your car on hills or slightly slopped drives ways, etc? I see you have a 6MT, how do you even get away from not using the hand brake every time your park somewhere?



I wouldn't call the BMW BBK fake or even half assed. For 128i guys it is a extremely big upgrade in stopping power.

But as for expensive, yes they are. At $2000 might as well shell out a bit more and get a full front BBK from Brembo, Stoptech, Mov'it, etc.

For the OP, is it worth the upgrade, yes. It is worth the money.... NO!!!!
I would only get the BMW Performance Brake Kit if you find it on sale again close to $1000.

Other than that, used front brakes from a 135i will do you just as well plus save you lots of money.

I'm considering buying a 2013 128 and want to upgrade the brakes also. I looked first at BMW Performance kit but don't like the silver rears especially for the price. So the next most obvious choice is the BMW 135i kit. Turner shows them but doesn't give me the BMW part numbers to price them. Anyone know the kit part number or best place to buy it?

Also anyone know if they fit the 17" 128i M-sport wheels?

Finally, I feel very confident in doing the swap myself but I read that they require a reflash at the dealer. Anyone have any experience with this? Did the dealer give you a hard time or charge $2500 for the reflash?

I wish I could just find a lightly used or New old stock set of the all four yellow BMWP kit!

Thanks
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      04-07-2015, 03:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I'm considering buying a 2013 128 and want to upgrade the brakes also. I looked first at BMW Performance kit but don't like the silver rears especially for the price. So the next most obvious choice is the BMW 135i kit. Turner shows them but doesn't give me the BMW part numbers to price them. Anyone know the kit part number or best place to buy it?

Also anyone know if they fit the 17" 128i M-sport wheels?

Finally, I feel very confident in doing the swap myself but I read that they require a reflash at the dealer. Anyone have any experience with this? Did the dealer give you a hard time or charge $2500 for the reflash?

I wish I could just find a lightly used or New old stock set of the all four yellow BMWP kit!

Thanks
http://www.getbmwparts.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462
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      04-07-2015, 03:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135TX View Post
Thanks but I was referring to the stock BMW 135i brake upgrade. the link is for the BMW Performance set which you can get the fronts only or 4 wheel set but with plain silver rear calipers.
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      04-07-2015, 04:20 PM   #37
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I think the rear 135i calipers do not just swap over. I don't know if you have to just make a bracket for it to work, or you need a 135i knuckle. I have not really looked into it.
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      04-07-2015, 04:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southjersey128
I think the rear 135i calipers do not just swap over. I don't know if you have to just make a bracket for it to work, or you need a 135i knuckle. I have not really looked into it.
I'll add more later but

135i caliper bolts on, just cut and bend away the dust sheild.

Handbrake will not function. You need custom brake shoes.
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      04-07-2015, 08:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southjersey128
I think the rear 135i calipers do not just swap over. I don't know if you have to just make a bracket for it to work, or you need a 135i knuckle. I have not really looked into it.
I'll add more later but

135i caliper bolts on, just cut and bend away the dust sheild.

Handbrake will not function. You need custom brake shoes.
That's it, couldn't remember why they didn't "work" easily on the rear. The parking brake. Thanks!
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      04-07-2015, 10:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
So the next most obvious choice is the BMW 135i kit.
Anyone know the kit part number or best place to buy it?
Call dealerships around, I got mine from one that did a Dealer Upgrade to sell a car. Car breakers/Junkyards list on ebay often. Car-part.com can help too. But usually the used ones will have to be stripped ,repaint the calipers, rebuild pistons if you do powdercoat.
Quote:
Also anyone know if they fit the 17" 128i M-sport wheels?
Certain 128i non sport 17" wheels dont work. Msport 17"s will work- I recall somoen here confirming. Happy searching
Quote:
Finally, I feel very confident in doing the swap myself but I read that they require a reflash at the dealer.
Baloney :P I didnt flash my 135i 4 corner take off. Feels good to me. I think the reason for the flash is that the bias is different for a 128i with only larger Fronts and it affects ABS over all and DSC in the rear. The rear perf caliper does have a 2mm-3mm larger piston.
Why I didnt flash is because all the e9x guys have no option for a flash even for Front only BMWP kits. They just ride on 335 brakes without problems.
If you must flash, its 2 hours labour - $300 ish, Called "BMW Sport brake update"
Dealer will probably force a flash for a BMWP 128i kit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Thanks but I was referring to the stock BMW 135i brake upgrade.
The rears will need one mod. Rear dust shield needs to have some incisions made and bent away like a flower petals.

For hand brake, you have to make custom shoes. e90post has most info on this.
- Most make 128i brake shoes larger, it requires cutting 135i shoes in a C shaped cut and attaching to 128i
- it is possible to make 135i brake shoe fit using more parts( 135i back plate pieces). But you will need to add a triangular metal from 128i shoes to make sure 135i shoe catches the Brake shoe pivot point on the rear knuckle
- the previous solution can have welding avoided if you use e46 m3/e60 hand brake shoes direct from BMW( aftermarket cut corners and shave off metal you need). Then one has to file away the metal that is not needed to match the 128i catch point. Potential problem is that e46 m3 brake shoes may be 30mm wide compared to 135i which are 20mm wise. The rotor may have a groove that can have a problem with this.
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      04-07-2015, 11:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Call dealerships around, I got mine from one that did a Dealer Upgrade to sell a car. Car breakers/Junkyards list on ebay often. Car-part.com can help too. But usually the used ones will have to be stripped ,repaint the calipers, rebuild pistons if you do powdercoat.

Certain 128i non sport 17" wheels dont work. Msport 17"s will work- I recall somoen here confirming. Happy searching

Baloney :P I didnt flash my 135i 4 corner take off. Feels good to me. I think the reason for the flash is that the bias is different for a 128i with only larger Fronts and it affects ABS over all and DSC in the rear. The rear perf caliper does have a 2mm-3mm larger piston.
Why I didnt flash is because all the e9x guys have no option for a flash even for Front only BMWP kits. They just ride on 335 brakes without problems.
If you must flash, its 2 hours labour - $300 ish, Called "BMW Sport brake update"
Dealer will probably force a flash for a BMWP 128i kit.

The rears will need one mod. Rear dust shield needs to have some incisions made and bent away like a flower petals.

For hand brake, you have to make custom shoes. e90post has most info on this.
- Most make 128i brake shoes larger, it requires cutting 135i shoes in a C shaped cut and attaching to 128i
- it is possible to make 135i brake shoe fit using more parts( 135i back plate pieces). But you will need to add a triangular metal from 128i shoes to make sure 135i shoe catches the Brake shoe pivot point on the rear knuckle
- the previous solution can have welding avoided if you use e46 m3/e60 hand brake shoes direct from BMW( aftermarket cut corners and shave off metal you need). Then one has to file away the metal that is not needed to match the 128i catch point. Potential problem is that e46 m3 brake shoes may be 30mm wide compared to 135i which are 20mm wise. The rotor may have a groove that can have a problem with this.
Thank you Gentlemen for all the info!

I wish BMW just offered the original matching 4 wheel set to just make things easier.
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      04-27-2019, 12:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post

The rears will need one mod. Rear dust shield needs to have some incisions made and bent away like a flower petals.

For hand brake, you have to make custom shoes. e90post has most info on this.
- Most make 128i brake shoes larger, it requires cutting 135i shoes in a C shaped cut and attaching to 128i
- it is possible to make 135i brake shoe fit using more parts( 135i back plate pieces). But you will need to add a triangular metal from 128i shoes to make sure 135i shoe catches the Brake shoe pivot point on the rear knuckle
- the previous solution can have welding avoided if you use e46 m3/e60 hand brake shoes direct from BMW( aftermarket cut corners and shave off metal you need). Then one has to file away the metal that is not needed to match the 128i catch point. Potential problem is that e46 m3 brake shoes may be 30mm wide compared to 135i which are 20mm wise. The rotor may have a groove that can have a problem with this.
Andrey; Just to clarify, The e46 M3 shoes will allow the e-brake to work when going from 128i to 135i rear brakes, but I will have to swap out the 128i supporting ring for the 135i part?

I know your post is 4 years old but do you recall if any other parts need swapped, or just the supporting ring?

Last edited by Jeb_; 04-27-2019 at 12:42 PM..
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