If I do this m3 suspension kit ?

[Zombie1]

http://www.getbmwparts.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

Will I have to change my struts and shocks out? Eventually I want to I'm just so torn on what I should do first to the suspension. I am without a doubt doing the m3 rear subframe bushings first ...

[MightyMouseTech]

Link fail......

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Link fail......

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by Zombie1

OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Strut Tower Brace Kit
OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Control Arm/Tension Strut Retrofit Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Aluminum Rear Guide Rod Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Aluminum Rear Wishbone Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Front Sway Bar Kit
OEM BMW E9X M3 Rear Sway Bar Kit

[1speedbike]

All of those parts are independent of the spring/shock system. If you replace them all, you will still be left with the factory shocks and struts, though other aspects of the suspension system will be significantly improved. It really depends on what you're looking for. Eric (BigEC here on the forum) has a full M3 suspension (I think) but is still on his OEM struts/springs. You can prob PM him and he will gladly tell you what he thinks. Usually people go the opposite route of what you're doing. The springs and shocks will honestly have the LARGEST tangible effect on how the car behaves.

All of the M3 parts you listed are just to fix the nit-picks that people are left with after stiffening up the car as a whole. Front and rear sway bars to further decrease body roll beyond how much the springs decrease it. M3 front control arms to increase front negative camber and steering feel because the springs/shocks don't do much for that. Rear bushings to further stiffen the back up, etc. I would personally get a set of springs+shocks or coil overs first, and then see what you don't like about the car, and then use the M3 parts to target those nit-picks.

[vantagesc]

The only item that will require new shocks is the M3 rear camber links. You'll have to get an M3 style shock for those.

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

All of those parts are independent of the spring/shock system. If you replace them all, you will still be left with the factory shocks and struts, though other aspects of the suspension system will be significantly improved. It really depends on what you're looking for. Eric (BigEC here on the forum) has a full M3 suspension (I think) but is still on his OEM struts/springs. You can prob PM him and he will gladly tell you what he thinks. Usually people go the opposite route of what you're doing. The springs and shocks will honestly have the LARGEST tangible effect on how the car behaves.

All of the M3 parts you listed are just to fix the nit-picks that people are left with after stiffening up the car as a whole. Front and rear sway bars to further decrease body roll beyond how much the springs decrease it. M3 front control arms to increase front negative camber and steering feel because the springs/shocks don't do much for that. Rear bushings to further stiffen the back up, etc. I would personally get a set of springs+shocks or coil overs first, and then see what you don't like about the car, and then use the M3 parts to target those nit-picks.

That clears up alot thanks for the info speedbike so I guess it's a set of coilovers with some swift springs

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

The only item that will require new shocks is the M3 rear camber links. You'll have to get an M3 style shock for those.

Appreciate the help

[GaryS]

I think lowering and stiffening with coilovers will do more for performance on track, but the M3 parts will do more for making the car feel good on street. I'm not 100% positive about that because it's hard to say which is worse between the really soft stock bushings and really soft stock shocks.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by Zombie1

That clears up alot thanks for the info speedbike so I guess it's a set of coilovers with some swift springs

The M3 rear subframe bushings fundamentally improve the handling. The effect is dramatic and absolutely not nit picking. Unfortunately it is expensive, if you don't have the resources to do it yourself, and it is nowhere near as glamorous as coil overs. If you actually want to improve your handling, it should be your first mod. If you can only do one thing, it should be your only mod. While you are at it, conventional wisdom would say to change your rear anti-roll bar because it is convenient to do so. Don't.

Believe it or not, the car does not need springs or bars or shocks. Most people won't believe that because most have followed the obvious route. When you push the stock suspension hard the car has a strong tendency to understeer, giving the sensation that the front tires are rolling over - so surely the car must be rolling too much too. M3 subframe bushings get rid of that sensation (my theory being that they do this by getting rid of the passive rear steer BMW built into the car to make it "safer"). When your front tires grip hard right to the limit the body roll does not seem so objectionable.

My two cents ...

[SteveAZ]

I too have gone against the norm and here is why.

Springs...unless you want to lower the car, change the spring rates, or your current springs are distorting under load...not a lot of reason to change them. Putting on cheap progressive coilovers is not an upgrade. Most do it because they want to lower the car.

Dampers...here's where the real opportunity for improving the handling is. But again, a lot of people go cheap here and if they're non-adjustable...the gains are minimal and my even be detrimental. By getting an adjustable shock you can dial the car in to the roads YOU'RE driving, not some tester that has set them to the best compromise. That said, a lot of people probably don't adjust them correctly anyway.

Inevitably somebody is going to chime in and say that a lower center of gravity is better handling. IMO, not necessarily. With that comes less travel so in order to not bottom out the car, stiffer suspension is needed. However the car's ability to absorb the bumps is also compromised as is traction. The other problem with that theory is weight transfer and the effective angles of the suspension geometry.

My intention was to first remove the unpredictability of the suspension (FSB and bushings) and put in more camber. I too will be doing coilovers, but will change out the rear control arms first thus requiring different coilovers and will not be looking to lower the car much but will be buying the best setup I can afford. Most likely Ohlins Street and Track.

You also have to consider, most people writing reviews and giving input are biased...spend a grand or two and there is placebo affect...hard to get a good review. That said, am I happy with my upgrades...yes but I've tried to be as unbiased as possible. The handling is greatly improved if nothing else because it is much more predictable, not the end all be all yet but I'm actually pretty happy with it right now.

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

I too have gone against the norm and here is why.

Springs...unless you want to lower the car, change the spring rates, or your current springs are distorting under load...not a lot of reason to change them. Putting on cheap progressive coilovers is not an upgrade. Most do it because they want to lower the car.

Dampers...here's where the real opportunity for improving the handling is. But again, a lot of people go cheap here and if they're non-adjustable...the gains are minimal and my even be detrimental. By getting an adjustable shock you can dial the car in to the roads YOU'RE driving, not some tester that has set them to the best compromise. That said, a lot of people probably don't adjust them correctly anyway.

Inevitably somebody is going to chime in and say that a lower center of gravity is better handling. IMO, not necessarily. With that comes less travel so in order to not bottom out the car, stiffer suspension is needed. However the car's ability to absorb the bumps is also compromised as is traction. The other problem with that theory is weight transfer and the effective angles of the suspension geometry.

My intention was to first remove the unpredictability of the suspension (FSB and bushings) and put in more camber. I too will be doing coilovers, but will change out the rear control arms first thus requiring different coilovers and will not be looking to lower the car much but will be buying the best setup I can afford. Most likely Ohlins Street and Track.

You also have to consider, most people writing reviews and giving input are biased...spend a grand or two and there is placebo affect...hard to get a good review. That said, am I happy with my upgrades...yes but I've tried to be as unbiased as possible. The handling is greatly improved if nothing else because it is much more predictable, not the end all be all yet but I'm actually pretty happy with it right now.

Very detailed review

[yawn]

OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Strut Tower Brace Kit

I think this may need slight modification to fit a 1er. As far as I know, the only place that sells them modded is here:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-128i-135i...tbrace-e82.htm

[ShiftGear]

Originally Posted by Zombie1

OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Strut Tower Brace Kit
OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Control Arm/Tension Strut Retrofit Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Aluminum Rear Guide Rod Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Aluminum Rear Wishbone Set
OEM BMW E9x M3 Front Sway Bar Kit
OEM BMW E9X M3 Rear Sway Bar Kit

I wouldn't do a stiffer rear sway bar with the stock electronic differential. I hear it makes the rear slide along. The front would be fine though.

[JTB]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

I too have gone against the norm and here is why.

Springs...unless you want to lower the car, change the spring rates, or your current springs are distorting under load...not a lot of reason to change them. Putting on cheap progressive coilovers is not an upgrade. Most do it because they want to lower the car.

Dampers...here's where the real opportunity for improving the handling is. But again, a lot of people go cheap here and if they're non-adjustable...the gains are minimal and my even be detrimental. By getting an adjustable shock you can dial the car in to the roads YOU'RE driving, not some tester that has set them to the best compromise. That said, a lot of people probably don't adjust them correctly anyway.

Inevitably somebody is going to chime in and say that a lower center of gravity is better handling. IMO, not necessarily. With that comes less travel so in order to not bottom out the car, stiffer suspension is needed. However the car's ability to absorb the bumps is also compromised as is traction. The other problem with that theory is weight transfer and the effective angles of the suspension geometry.

My intention was to first remove the unpredictability of the suspension (FSB and bushings) and put in more camber. I too will be doing coilovers, but will change out the rear control arms first thus requiring different coilovers and will not be looking to lower the car much but will be buying the best setup I can afford. Most likely Ohlins Street and Track.

You also have to consider, most people writing reviews and giving input are biased...spend a grand or two and there is placebo affect...hard to get a good review. That said, am I happy with my upgrades...yes but I've tried to be as unbiased as possible. The handling is greatly improved if nothing else because it is much more predictable, not the end all be all yet but I'm actually pretty happy with it right now.

Excellent post! It clearly details what you need to do based on your priorities.

If you want a functional suspension, read this post carefully. If you want your car to have that "slammed" look, then there are better threads

[froop]

Originally Posted by sharkatron

OEM BMW E90/92/93 M3 Front Strut Tower Brace Kit

I think this may need slight modification to fit a 1er. As far as I know, the only place that sells them modded is here:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-128i-135i...tbrace-e82.htm

Actually I was looking around yesterday, and you can buy for a 1M strut tower brace individually from ECS tuning. Just change 'your car' to a 1M coupe and it will show up under suspension -> strut brace. I haven't cross checked if the centre mount is the same part as on the M3 but I assume if it fits a 1m it will fit out 1ers. You'll need to buy 8 13mm hex bolts as well because they don't show up but just find the part number for them and you can add it to the order.

[TS135i]

Originally Posted by fe1rx

The M3 rear subframe bushings fundamentally improve the handling. The effect is dramatic and absolutely not nit picking. Unfortunately it is expensive, if you don't have the resources to do it yourself, and it is nowhere near as glamorous as coil overs. If you actually want to improve your handling, it should be your first mod. If you can only do one thing, it should be your only mod. While you are at it, conventional wisdom would say to change your rear anti-roll bar because it is convenient to do so. Don't.

Believe it or not, the car does not need springs or bars or shocks. Most people won't believe that because most have followed the obvious route. When you push the stock suspension hard the car has a strong tendency to understeer, giving the sensation that the front tires are rolling over - so surely the car must be rolling too much too. M3 subframe bushings get rid of that sensation (my theory being that they do this by getting rid of the passive rear steer BMW built into the car to make it "safer"). When your front tires grip hard right to the limit the body roll does not seem so objectionable.

My two cents ...

Having modded plenty of cars in the past I tend to agree with you. I was prepared to add a few suspension mods to my M-Sport 135i, but all I feel that really needs replacing are the rear bushings. Yes its a slippery slope, but 95% of the time the car will be driven on the street/B-roads. I'll first adjust my driving style rather the suspension.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

I too have gone against the norm and here is why.

Springs...unless you want to lower the car, change the spring rates, or your current springs are distorting under load...not a lot of reason to change them. Putting on cheap progressive coilovers is not an upgrade. Most do it because they want to lower the car.

Dampers...here's where the real opportunity for improving the handling is. But again, a lot of people go cheap here and if they're non-adjustable...the gains are minimal and my even be detrimental. By getting an adjustable shock you can dial the car in to the roads YOU'RE driving, not some tester that has set them to the best compromise. That said, a lot of people probably don't adjust them correctly anyway.

Inevitably somebody is going to chime in and say that a lower center of gravity is better handling. IMO, not necessarily. With that comes less travel so in order to not bottom out the car, stiffer suspension is needed. However the car's ability to absorb the bumps is also compromised as is traction. The other problem with that theory is weight transfer and the effective angles of the suspension geometry.

My intention was to first remove the unpredictability of the suspension (FSB and bushings) and put in more camber. I too will be doing coilovers, but will change out the rear control arms first thus requiring different coilovers and will not be looking to lower the car much but will be buying the best setup I can afford. Most likely Ohlins Street and Track.

You also have to consider, most people writing reviews and giving input are biased...spend a grand or two and there is placebo affect...hard to get a good review. That said, am I happy with my upgrades...yes but I've tried to be as unbiased as possible. The handling is greatly improved if nothing else because it is much more predictable, not the end all be all yet but I'm actually pretty happy with it right now.

This has to be one of the best posts coming from a private party!

Perhaps someone will listen before going out by a set of lowering springs or a sub $1500 coilover kit that does nothing for performance.