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      02-11-2019, 12:59 PM   #1
shotor
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1M vs 993 - Daily driven

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with the 1M. It's a fantastic car and has served me very well over the years. I love the size & looks. The power and suspension are great for my city car. Have snow tires on it for the winter and it handles the Pacific Northwest winters without problems. No reliability issues either.

Have put 70,000 Km with this car, so I'm slowly looking at other options. Change for the sake of change. The 993 market is softening and a few examples have come up with almost reasonable prices. So I'm looking in that direction. Also have a deposit on M2CS, but who knows what kind of car that will be.

The answers on this forum will naturally have some bias, but has anybody on here daily a 993 and 1M that can comment?
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      02-11-2019, 06:11 PM   #2
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I replaced my 1m with a 993. The 993 is not my daily but sometimes it gets daily duty. It is kind of modified for a street/track setup. In stock form it is a lovely daily driver and the stock suspension is softer than a 1m. When I dial my aftermarket suspension down it is pleasant enough on the street. Does not have the low end grunt of the 1m. Visibility is way better out of the 993 and you sit lower to the ground. HVAC blows cold enough for Texas, one of the big reasons I went with the 993 over an older 911. It combines the old school, air cooled feel with just enough modern touches like the hvac and multi-link rear end. At times I do miss the 1m and if I could only have one car I would have a hard time picking something else, it does everything well and is a real hoot. But the 993 has more of a connection to the road, and I like the old school feel.

Let me know if you have any other more specific questions..

Last edited by craina; 02-12-2019 at 09:01 AM.
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      02-12-2019, 09:30 AM   #3
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A few more thoughts:

Performance numbers (0-60, 1/4 mile) are pretty close between the two cars but the 1m feels significantly faster. The 993 requires a lot more work to go fast - it is very rewarding to rev out and you need to rev it out to get to the power. It is pretty gutless below 4k. My car is a '95 so no varioram, those have a bit more low end tq. Do some research on differences between years, all have some pluses and minuses. It is extremely expensive to get more power out of the 993 but a few tweaks will really wake it up.

Neither car has ever left me stranded but there are more little issues to fix with the 993. Right now one of the hvac mixing servos is bad, so with heat at full blast hot air will come out of all vents except the driver footwell . My e36 m3 was the same way, but the 993 parts are way more expensive. Thats just part of owning a 25 year old German car. I keep a spare dme relay and some belts in the 993 just in case.

Like you I just wanted to try something different. Driver quality 993's can be had for mid 40's. Drive a few and make sure you ask for records.
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      02-12-2019, 11:01 AM   #4
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I had a 1997 993 & currently have a 1M. Neither are/were daily due to horrible commuter traffic. I loved the 993, pinnacle of air cooled Porsches and I think the best looking. Really the last hand-built Porsche. Built quality is amazing, closing the door is like closing a bank vault. I loved the immediacy of the interior . Almost cocooned in car. At 285 hp, do not expect it to be super quick of the line. Handles great though. Both are wonderful analogue driving experiences. 993's are 20 years old. I would try to find the best car available,
PPI is a must. I had mine for 10 years with no issues. Would suggest ROW suspension setup. Much better than what was sold in NA. Funny, My east coast car went to a guy in pacific NW
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      02-12-2019, 01:40 PM   #5
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Being a former 996 Targa owner, which had a similar Targa mechanism as the 993, my only tidbit to contribute is that I’d stay away from the Targa. The glass roof is amazing, and so is the hatchback usability, but I broke a little plastic tab off the sunshade track, and replacing the cheap part required an A-pillar back roof removal for thousands of bucks. Silly Germans! Also, it rattles a lot.
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      02-12-2019, 03:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craina View Post
I replaced my 1m with a 993. The 993 is not my daily but sometimes it gets daily duty. It is kind of modified for a street/track setup. In stock form it is a lovely daily driver and the stock suspension is softer than a 1m. When I dial my aftermarket suspension down it is pleasant enough on the street. Does not have the low end grunt of the 1m. Visibility is way better out of the 993 and you sit lower to the ground. HVAC blows cold enough for Texas, one of the big reasons I went with the 993 over an older 911. It combines the old school, air cooled feel with just enough modern touches like the hvac and multi-link rear end. At times I do miss the 1m and if I could only have one car I would have a hard time picking something else, it does everything well and is a real hoot. But the 993 has more of a connection to the road, and I like the old school feel.

Let me know if you have any other more specific questions..
Thank you for the response.

That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The 993s seem to be old enough to be interesting, but new enough to be used regularly. And I won't be tracking it, as I have another vehicle for that.

I've owned a 3.2 & 930 in the past; but that was almost 20 years ago. They had issues [relays, always relays] but they never broke down. Now with 20 more years of time on these cars, is it still the same? The car will visit a mechanic every 5,000 Km for an oil change and whatever else is needed.

Thinking of getting an OBDI car, for sake of simplicity and easier maintenance [no air-pump, etc]. Is that an accurate assumption? I don't mind giving up some power for reliability. Since this will be my daily city car, it would need to start 99% of the time.
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      02-12-2019, 04:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Being a former 996 Targa owner, which had a similar Targa mechanism as the 993, my only tidbit to contribute is that I’d stay away from the Targa. The glass roof is amazing, and so is the hatchback usability, but I broke a little plastic tab off the sunshade track, and replacing the cheap part required an A-pillar back roof removal for thousands of bucks. Silly Germans! Also, it rattles a lot.
No Targa or me. It rains so much here, but even a sunroof on an older car is a liability. My old 3.2 would leak from somewhere and water would end up in the floor matt of the driver side rear foot-well. Thank god for heated covered parking.

Funny enough, had a 308 GTS and the top on that thing never leaked. Ever. But, the windshield would leak from the bottom center onto the dashboard during very heavy rains. So Italian!
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      02-12-2019, 04:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dkat View Post
I had a 1997 993 & currently have a 1M. Neither are/were daily due to horrible commuter traffic. I loved the 993, pinnacle of air cooled Porsches and I think the best looking. Really the last hand-built Porsche. Built quality is amazing, closing the door is like closing a bank vault. I loved the immediacy of the interior . Almost cocooned in car. At 285 hp, do not expect it to be super quick of the line. Handles great though. Both are wonderful analogue driving experiences. 993's are 20 years old. I would try to find the best car available,
PPI is a must. I had mine for 10 years with no issues. Would suggest ROW suspension setup. Much better than what was sold in NA. Funny, My east coast car went to a guy in pacific NW
Getting the best one is a funny balance. Because I'm going to drive it regularly, need one with enough mileage to be semi-sorted but not used up. Be clean enough to not be a project, but not too clean to worry about using it. And of course, I'm a slave to what is available to me in the market [Canada is much summer pool than the US].

Hoping to find one with about 75,000 Km on it. No real accidents. And has been used and maintained regularly.

Best part is, that if I don't find what I like, still driving a 1M. Really incredible car for what it is. I get more positive response from people on the street from this car than the GT3. Wish I could keep it too, but then I would be a car collector and don't really want to go down that road.
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      02-12-2019, 04:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotor View Post
Thank you for the response.

That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The 993s seem to be old enough to be interesting, but new enough to be used regularly. And I won't be tracking it, as I have another vehicle for that.

I've owned a 3.2 & 930 in the past; but that was almost 20 years ago. They had issues [relays, always relays] but they never broke down. Now with 20 more years of time on these cars, is it still the same? The car will visit a mechanic every 5,000 Km for an oil change and whatever else is needed.

Thinking of getting an OBDI car, for sake of simplicity and easier maintenance [no air-pump, etc]. Is that an accurate assumption? I don't mind giving up some power for reliability. Since this will be my daily city car, it would need to start 99% of the time.
The '95 still has SAI but being OBD1 there is no code when the SAI ports get clogged. Ignorance is bliss. On an OBD2 car when the ports get clogged, the computer throws an emissions code and the car wont pass emissions/smog with the code.

'95 also has no immobilizer and can be chipped easily.
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      02-13-2019, 01:07 AM   #10
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I would like to chime in and advise to not go for a C4 or C4S's model, I had a chance to briefly drive a freinds car ..and maybe because of the 4 wheel drive system but it felt very sluggish and slow and just heavy .. perhaps a C2 or C2s a better option.
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      02-13-2019, 11:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1'M Blue View Post
I would like to chime in and advise to not go for a C4 or C4S's model, I had a chance to briefly drive a freinds car ..and maybe because of the 4 wheel drive system but it felt very sluggish and slow and just heavy .. perhaps a C2 or C2s a better option.
I’ve only spent a little time in a 993 C2, so don’t take my word for it, but they generally are considered a little more “GT-ish” than their predecessors, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the C4 was even more so.
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      02-13-2019, 12:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1'M Blue View Post
I would like to chime in and advise to not go for a C4 or C4S's model, I had a chance to briefly drive a freinds car ..and maybe because of the 4 wheel drive system but it felt very sluggish and slow and just heavy .. perhaps a C2 or C2s a better option.
I prefer the C2 personally. But I doubt it was because of the front drive-shaft. More likely that these are just old cars now and by today standards they are slow. Off the line a new Camry should be able to take a 993.
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      02-13-2019, 12:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craina View Post

'95 also has no immobilizer and can be chipped easily.
Are you referring to the SW chip?

Also, did you go with the RS flyweel?
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      02-13-2019, 03:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotor View Post
Are you referring to the SW chip?

Also, did you go with the RS flyweel?
Yes to both. Both woke the car up. I sent the chip back to SW after I installed the rs lwfw and clutch. He tweaked it to eliminate occasional stalling with the flywheel. Easy and cheap to tweak. Later cars require flashing the ECU.
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      02-14-2019, 07:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1'M Blue View Post
I would like to chime in and advise to not go for a C4 or C4S's model, I had a chance to briefly drive a freinds car ..and maybe because of the 4 wheel drive system but it felt very sluggish and slow and just heavy .. perhaps a C2 or C2s a better option.
I’ve only spent a little time in a 993 C2, so don’t take my word for it, but they generally are considered a little more “GT-ish” than their predecessors, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the C4 was even more so.
I've driven 2 993s a C2 and a C4. Didn't particularly like either of them. In fact I much preferred the 964 i drove.

These are some of the most overhyped cars ever; which is why their prices are dropping these days as people finally realize it was hype over substance. These were from a time when Porsche was nearly going bankrupt...they didn't put too much emotion into the 993. The Boxster came after and saved their ass from death.
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      02-14-2019, 08:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
I've driven 2 993s a C2 and a C4. Didn't particularly like either of them. In fact I much preferred the 964 i drove.

These are some of the most overhyped cars ever; which is why their prices are dropping these days as people finally realize it was hype over substance. These were from a time when Porsche was nearly going bankrupt...they didn't put too much emotion into the 993. The Boxster came after and saved their ass from death.
The 993 was the car that nearly bankrupted Porsche. They spent a ton of money developing the car, namely the multi link rear suspension. The rear end settled down the twitchy nature of the older torsion bar cars. Those old cars are a ton of fun but for most people they aren't going to make good daily drivers. Too slow, too old, too hot, etc. I would agree that the 964 is a bit of a sweet spot but those cars are going for silly money.

Porsche cut costs big time with the 996 and boxster and that helped start digging them out of that hole but it was really the Cayenne and later the panamera that saved their ass. Both the boxster and 996 drive beautifully but the cost cutting does show in the interiors of those cars.

I am biased obviously but I don't agree that these are over hyped. Good mix of old and new, last of the air cooled cars. I don't follow pricing very closely but I see no evidence of the bottom falling out on the 993 market. I think some dreamer dealers are bringing their prices down but actual sales show a consistent market. I won't be selling mine anytime soon, too busy driving it.
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      02-14-2019, 01:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by craina View Post

Porsche cut costs big time with the 996 and boxster and that helped start digging them out of that hole but it was really the Cayenne and later the panamera that saved their ass. Both the boxster and 996 drive beautifully but the cost cutting does show in the interiors of those cars.
The Cayenne is the car that not only saved them, but pushed them into the most profitable car company in the world.

The 996 is arguably a better car than the 993. Much better cooling, aero, packaging, manufacturing scaling, etc. Had a 996 years ago, just a basic C2. Put about 100,000 Kms and 30+ trackdays on that thing and nothing broke. Had to change an air/oil separator, that's it. With one tank I could drive from Vancouver, BC to Portland none-stop. It was an amazing car for what it was and how little I paid for it.

The 993 IS over priced for what it is. But we don't always buy cars with logic. Also, the prices are becoming more reasonable since the speculators are out of the market. For my needs [daily driven in the city with some highway to go skiing] it should be nice. Its a small car, old enough but new enough and hopefully fun to drive at the slower speeds. And I've never owned a 993 before. Just wish I could keep the 1M too, its such a great car.
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      02-14-2019, 02:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shotor View Post
The Cayenne is the car that not only saved them, but pushed them into the most profitable car company in the world.

The 996 is arguably a better car than the 993. Much better cooling, aero, packaging, manufacturing scaling, etc. Had a 996 years ago, just a basic C2. Put about 100,000 Kms and 30+ trackdays on that thing and nothing broke. Had to change an air/oil separator, that's it. With one tank I could drive from Vancouver, BC to Portland none-stop. It was an amazing car for what it was and how little I paid for it.

The 993 IS over priced for what it is. But we don't always buy cars with logic. Also, the prices are becoming more reasonable since the speculators are out of the market. For my needs [daily driven in the city with some highway to go skiing] it should be nice. Its a small car, old enough but new enough and hopefully fun to drive at the slower speeds. And I've never owned a 993 before. Just wish I could keep the 1M too, its such a great car.
Water pump and front control arms were the repairs I had to make in my 996 under 50k miles. Of course, one should get an IMS bearing fix if buying a 996 today.
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      02-15-2019, 08:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by craina View Post

Porsche cut costs big time with the 996 and boxster and that helped start digging them out of that hole but it was really the Cayenne and later the panamera that saved their ass. Both the boxster and 996 drive beautifully but the cost cutting does show in the interiors of those cars.
The Cayenne is the car that not only saved them, but pushed them into the most profitable car company in the world.

The 996 is arguably a better car than the 993. Much better cooling, aero, packaging, manufacturing scaling, etc. Had a 996 years ago, just a basic C2. Put about 100,000 Kms and 30+ trackdays on that thing and nothing broke. Had to change an air/oil separator, that's it. With one tank I could drive from Vancouver, BC to Portland none-stop. It was an amazing car for what it was and how little I paid for it.

The 993 IS over priced for what it is. But we don't always buy cars with logic. Also, the prices are becoming more reasonable since the speculators are out of the market. For my needs [daily driven in the city with some highway to go skiing] it should be nice. Its a small car, old enough but new enough and hopefully fun to drive at the slower speeds. And I've never owned a 993 before. Just wish I could keep the 1M too, its such a great car.
Boxster saved them. The Cayenne put them into profits.
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      02-15-2019, 08:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craina View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
I've driven 2 993s a C2 and a C4. Didn't particularly like either of them. In fact I much preferred the 964 i drove.

These are some of the most overhyped cars ever; which is why their prices are dropping these days as people finally realize it was hype over substance. These were from a time when Porsche was nearly going bankrupt...they didn't put too much emotion into the 993. The Boxster came after and saved their ass from death.
The 993 was the car that nearly bankrupted Porsche. They spent a ton of money developing the car, namely the multi link rear suspension. The rear end settled down the twitchy nature of the older torsion bar cars. Those old cars are a ton of fun but for most people they aren't going to make good daily drivers. Too slow, too old, too hot, etc. I would agree that the 964 is a bit of a sweet spot but those cars are going for silly money.

Porsche cut costs big time with the 996 and boxster and that helped start digging them out of that hole but it was really the Cayenne and later the panamera that saved their ass. Both the boxster and 996 drive beautifully but the cost cutting does show in the interiors of those cars.

I am biased obviously but I don't agree that these are over hyped. Good mix of old and new, last of the air cooled cars. I don't follow pricing very closely but I see no evidence of the bottom falling out on the 993 market. I think some dreamer dealers are bringing their prices down but actual sales show a consistent market. I won't be selling mine anytime soon, too busy driving it.
The 996 had waaaay more development costs than the 993. It was not only an all new car but an all new philosophy.
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