Dinan vs. BMW Factory Warranty Discussion

[NY SLC 93]

I have done some research and had many conflicting answers regarding this:

Does the Dinan flash void the BMW factory warranty or a portion of it? What does the Dinan warranty cover?

Luckily my dealer is an authorized Dinan installer as well.

[gargoyal]

The wording of your poll is incorrect.

It is illegal to void a new car warranty.

Federal and state laws regulate warranties. A dealer can not void your warranty because you modded your car. This is the law .They can deny your warranty claim for a specific issue , if your modification caused the problem in question.

Attach is the SEMA page on handling warranty issues.

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128

Most of the time you just have to say "I know my right under the Magnusson Moss Warranty act and the case law" and the dealer will back off and do what is right

With all that said, if your engine breaks because of the higher boost of the Dinan flash. BMW will denine the claim. In that case the Dinan warrenty will pay for the claim.

Use a service provider that is certified Dinan and BMW and you won’t get finger pointing as to who should pay the claim.

[Crowley]

My understanding is that if you get the Dinan flash and something breaks and it is related to that, BMW will not warrenty it, but Dinan will pick up what would have been covered by your warrenty.

thanks,
Crowley

[bmwzimmer]

What if your infamous fuel pump takes a crap. Will Dinan blame BMW for a defective pump? Will BMW blame Dinan for the added load on the engine?

Who pays???

How about the wastegate issue? Or a bad spark plug or coils?

If there's a loud ticking noise, Would dinan fork over $4K including Labor to replace a turbo? Hmmm...

[Brandon26pdx]

BMW would point the finger at Dinan if the engine went boom while using their software, in the unlikely event that happened. The Dinan warranty would in theory cover the repair costs, but realize Dinan will not be nearly as liberal with their warranty coverage as BMW NA would be, so follow the directions to a "T" if you use their product. ie; DON'T add any non-Dinan power adding products on top of the flash...they'll take that as their cue to deny helping you in about 2.2 seconds, so be smart about it.

[ScottyGams]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

The wording of your poll is incorrect.

It is illegal to void a new car warranty.

Federal and state laws regulate warranties. A dealer can not void your warranty because you modded your car. This is the law .They can deny your warranty claim for a specific issue , if your modification caused the problem in question.

Attach is the SEMA page on handling warranty issues.

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128

Most of the time you just have to say "I know my right under the Magnusson Moss Warranty act and the case law" and the dealer will back off and do what is right

With all that said, if your engine breaks because of the higher boost of the Dinan flash. BMW will denine the claim. In that case the Dinan warrenty will pay for the claim.

Use a service provider that is certified Dinan and BMW and you won’t get finger pointing as to who should pay the claim.

great post... hopefully enough people will read this thread that we wont have "do intakes void warrenty" threads

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

Use a service provider that is certified Dinan and BMW and you won’t get finger pointing as to who should pay the claim.

Read, young grasshopper and you will learn.

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

What if your infamous fuel pump takes a crap. Will Dinan blame BMW for a defective pump? Will BMW blame Dinan for the added load on the engine?

Who pays???

How about the wastegate issue? Or a bad spark plug or coils?

If there's a loud ticking noise, Would dinan fork over $4K including Labor to replace a turbo? Hmmm...

The wasetegate and fuel pump are known BMW issues. under the law , BMW has to fix it.

Spark plugs and coils , most likely BMW. How would the flash casues the issues here ?

Turbo - most likely Dinan, but is depends if there were already known turbo issuses. If it is a known issues BMW has to pay.

People need to stop being victims and learn their rights. Federal and state laws regulate warranties. READ, LEARN , and then you will not be taken advatage of.

If you don't know your rights ,don’t modify your car. With so many suckers out there, it is no wonder that dealers try to take advantage of them. It's too tempting when people will not take the time to educate themselves

[jose100fires]

Gargoyal, you sound like a lawyer....

Hey if any of you out there have an issue with BMW or Dinan, due to reliance on gargoyal's advise, sounds like gargoyal should represent you....:wink:

Just read and learn huh? Hell, everyone knows how easy federal and state law is on consumer protection and corporate law. What, probably covered by a couple of pages at most???....NOT.

Careful out there. It's not that clean cut, nothing in law ever is.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by jose100fires

Gargoyal, you sound like a lawyer....

Hey if any of you out there have an issue with BMW or Dinan, due to reliance on gargoyal's advise, sounds like gargoyal should represent you....:wink:

Just read and learn huh? Hell, everyone knows how easy federal and state law is on consumer protection and corporate law. What, probably covered by a couple of pages at most???....NOT.

Careful out there. It's not that clean cut, nothing in law ever is.

I'm not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a holiday inn last night (I design enterprise software for a living).

I’ve been a tuner for over 25 years and I have been mess around with new cars for about 12 years. I have also designed enterprise software for the automotive and motor sports industry. I have worked on dealer incentive systems, supply chain, and warranty systems.

While the law is not always cut and clear, warranties are. Warranties are regulated. The only ambiguity is “what caused the failure”( this is what causes finger pointing).

To know your legal rights you just need to read the attached SEMA page and the 2 link on it , the warranty of your new car and the warranty of the part you are adding.

Now get this : Anything in the warranty that is confusing or ambiguous will be found in your favor! That is the law!

Here is the SEMA page:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128
Here is the Dinan warranty page:
http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/warranty
Now read your new car warrenty and you are set!

The real challenge is knowing enough about your car and the modifications you add to know what is at fault. If you are a car guy or gal this is not that hard most of the time. This is a mechanical thing not a legal thing.

Again the law is on your side. The Warrantor (dealer/automaker/ part company) has to show that its not their fault !! It is not your responsibility to prove it is their fault.

You don’t need a law degree to know your rights on warrenties. You just need to know how to read and have some common sense

[jose100fires]

Gargoyal -

I wish it was that easy - I say this from some experience. If push comes to shove, it doesn't matter if you are right or not. If either BMW or Dinan wants to fight your claim you may have hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, discovery, depositions, and other costs involved, again, just to prove your are right. Even a motion for summary judgment will (may) cost you more than a new engine...

With that said, I hope all goes well, like you said, sounds like you know what you are doing.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by jose100fires

Gargoyal -

I wish it was that easy - I say this from some experience. If push comes to shove, it doesn't matter if you are right or not. If either BMW or Dinan wants to fight your claim you may have hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, discovery, depositions, and other costs involved, again, just to prove your are right. Even a motion for summary judgment will (may) cost you more than a new engine...

With that said, I hope all goes well, like you said, sounds like you know what you are doing.

I agree that fighting them alone is a suckers bet , if it gets to the point you are talking about(unless it is small enough for small claims court). I have dealt with this crap five time over the past 10 years. The farthest it got was exchanging documentation with the manufacture.

If it gets to the point that you are talking about AND your modifications are really are not to blame not even partially. It’s time to report it to the government agencies and get a good contingence lawyer to do a class action law suit. If a automotive company has done it to one person, they have done it to many. Lawyer love that crap and it‘s free to you.

It is the fear of a class action law suits and the government pressures that causes everyone to play it straight.

You would be the first person that I know that took it to litigation, if you real went that far. The cost of denying legitimate claims is too high for an automotive company. For a company like Dinan, they could be put the out of business. Dealers are @$$es about warranty work because it doesn’t pay as much money and if their shop is full, they want higher paying work. It rarely goes beyond the dealer .

[jose100fires]

You know - the better question and possibly a way to feel better about the Dinan flash is this: BMW apparently has this done at their dealerships, knowing full well what the risks are. I think it would be a hard call on BMW to claim that any part of their warranty is void when one of their employees does the work, at one of their dealerships, on one of their cars. I really don't think that BMW would have a very good legal position here, given these facts. I really think that Dinan's (having not looked at the warranty) warranty "steps in" in regards to any engine failure issue, in place of the BMW warranty. Likely an issue that BMW and Dinan have already hashed out prior to any work for Dinan being done at a BMW dealership.

BTW - I am going to get the Dinan flash done for the simple reason that Dinan has a warranty that works with the BMW warranty, and that the work is done by a BMW tech, at my dealership. I'm paying for peace of mind.

Good talking with you about this.

Oh and just FYI - you don't want to know how much time and money it takes to get a suit qualified for Class Action Status. This would only be a real threat after a judge qualifies your suit as one.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by NY SLC 93

I have done some research and had many conflicting answers regarding this:

Does the Dinan flash void the BMW factory warranty or a portion of it? What does the Dinan warranty cover?

Luckily my dealer is an authorized Dinan installer as well.

"Luckily my dealer is an authorized Dinan installer as well."

Well then, maybe you should go and ask them.



But from persoanl experience, Dinan is a very trustworthy company. Also I have two friends with Dinan 5's, they have no problems getting free maintenance and free warranty repairs.

Just find a good dealer that is an authorized Dinan installer, I say no worrys.


Your poll is a little hard to answer.
Dinan covers the car with their own warranty. The Dinan warranty is full transferable to the next owner if you decide to sell the car.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by NY SLC 93

I have done some research and had many conflicting answers regarding this:

Does the Dinan flash void the BMW factory warranty or a portion of it? What does the Dinan warranty cover?

Luckily my dealer is an authorized Dinan installer as well.

Who cares.. as long as I can drop it off at the dealership when something breaks and I don't pay for it. I'll drive a loaner while dinan and bmw decide which of them will pay.

[J-Sud]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

What if your infamous fuel pump takes a crap. Will Dinan blame BMW for a defective pump? Will BMW blame Dinan for the added load on the engine?

Who pays???

How about the wastegate issue? Or a bad spark plug or coils?

If there's a loud ticking noise, Would dinan fork over $4K including Labor to replace a turbo? Hmmm...

as far as the wastegate issue it looks like someone figured out what it was....not that big of a deal fairly easy to fix it looks like...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132037

[atr_hugo]

Nice J-Sud, thanks for the reference!

[imported_Katera]

Honestly, that is the MAIN reason why I bought my car from the dealer I did. He is a certified Dinan dealer. I called and spoke to the main service/Parts manager who told me that the same guys who install any Dinan upgrades are the same guys that would fix anything that went wrong....and are the same guys that do the plain jane BMW warranty work.

That is your best bet.