[cebrailbakan]

Hi there,

In Turkey, only straight pump gas avaliable hereby, I thought of doing direct injection methanol system for both fuel supplement and high octane. You can see my built manifold ready to be installed in the picture. This system will flow ~1440cc/min total or ~240cc/min per runner using 0.5mm jets with the BMS meth system.

All the best,

[just_dirty]

3000GT MR has done this already I'm sure he'll chime in with this observations

[TGNY 335]

Originally Posted by cebrailbakan

Hi there,

In Turkey, only straight pump gas avaliable hereby, I thought of doing direct injection methanol system for both fuel supplement and high octane. You can see my built manifold ready to be installed in the picture. Which jet sizes are needed for optimum high horsepower? And I'd like to get your ideas as to how many advantages or disadvantages does this system have?

All the best

if I were you, I would use some right angle fittings to keep the hose closer to the manifold, or at least 45 degree fittings instead of using the straight fittings and making the hoses arch like rainbows. Leaving them that way will increase cavitation

also, the ports on the manifold..... are they check valve equipped? if not I'd recommend making them all check valve type injection points. if not once the meth pump stops and air velocity is lower, the meth will just leak down into the manifold in a non atomized form or get sucked out of the lines under vacuum. could cause pooling. in the manifold and worse at the valves.

you're on the right track tho. as direct port anything is the absolute best case scenario for supplementary fueling.

[cebrailbakan]

Here is the explanation of the owner, who built this manifold, called Jason Godwin, the great man and one of the biggest contributor of the n54 world.

Jets with check valves will continue to drip after the car is off. This will cause the car to stumble upon restarting the car whereas un-checked jets will allow the vacuum to clear the system back to the solenoid valve while the engine is still running after the pump stops. Even with the system clearing each time, there was no noticeable lag in flow. I have tried this both ways. The only time you would need a checked jet is if you were to run a jet in the CP to prevent cross-siphoning across the throttle body. My data shows that running a check jet as big as 1.0mm in the CP has little to no affect on IATs so it's better to reallocate that volume and pressure back to the runners for more octane and better atomization.
Using fittings other than what's pictured will introduce added stress fatigue in the jet adapter joints and raise the risk of creating a leak. The key point is to place the solenoid valve as close as possible to the distribution block.

[TGNY 335]

Originally Posted by cebrailbakan

Here is the explanation of the owner, who built this manifold, called Jason Godwin, the great man and one of the biggest contributor of the n54 world.

Jets with check valves will continue to drip after the car is off. This will cause the car to stumble upon restarting the car whereas un-checked jets will allow the vacuum to clear the system back to the solenoid valve while the engine is still running after the pump stops. Even with the system clearing each time, there was no noticeable lag in flow. I have tried this both ways. The only time you would need a checked jet is if you were to run a jet in the CP to prevent cross-siphoning across the throttle body. My data shows that running a check jet as big as 1.0mm in the CP has little to no affect on IATs so it's better to reallocate that volume and pressure back to the runners for more octane and better atomization.
Using fittings other than what's pictured will introduce added stress fatigue in the jet adapter joints and raise the risk of creating a leak. The key point is to place the solenoid valve as close as possible to the distribution block.

a pressure set check valve will not leak, just like the solenoid. if you had a pressure based check valve leak, you either had a cheap one or a damaged one.

The point is to not just have the meth leaking into the manifold. at vacuum, the meth does not get ATOMIZED like it would with the pump active. so realistically, what you are essentially doing is leaving the faucet on partially and allowing the meth to simply drip or run into runners, then into the combustion chamber.

Similar things will happen like a leaking fueling injector. don't always rely on the solenoid not to leak. a pressure based injection port is the way to go as its a secondary leak proofing mechanism.

[cebrailbakan]

Could you please show your data regarding your sayings ?

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by TGNY 335

a pressure set check valve will not leak, just like the solenoid. if you had a pressure based check valve leak, you either had a cheap one or a damaged one.

The point is to not just have the meth leaking into the manifold. at vacuum, the meth does not get ATOMIZED like it would with the pump active. so realistically, what you are essentially doing is leaving the faucet on partially and allowing the meth to simply drip or run into runners, then into the combustion chamber.

Similar things will happen like a leaking fueling injector. don't always rely on the solenoid not to leak. a pressure based injection port is the way to go as its a secondary leak proofing mechanism.

Not true at all.

1. The cvj's have a 15psi cracking pressure. Guess where anything greater than 15psi in the system goes?
2. The CVJ's are designed to be anti-siphon not to hold pressure
3. When your car is off and engine bay temps increase under the hood it increases the pressure in the lines (already at 15psi) and causes them to bypass not leak. They are working as designed.
4. Methanol vaporizes so well in some race applications they dont even bother using efficient atomizing jets the literally shoot streams at the valves.
5. The stumble on start is due to added fuel that wasn't accounted for.
6. I have probably ran most configurations of DPI and can tell you from experience that using the non-CVJ's is a preferred method. Once you let off the gas and create a vacuum in the manifold it'll siphon the lines so quick you and your car wont notice. This works particularly good when you run a 7th jet in the CP and have a air source to fill the void.

Your thinking of the check valve backwards. Its not a check valve to prevent flow its a check valve to prevent siphoning. The spring tension is the only thing that prevents methanol from going into the manifold. You also need to go up a size to get proper flow. Jets are rated by delta of ATM. so to properly calculate a jet size it needs to be "Jet flow@ X - boost pressure" or for CVJ's "Jet flow @ X - boost pressure - 15psi"

[TGNY 335]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

Not true at all.

1. The cvj's have a 15psi cracking pressure. Guess where anything greater than 15psi in the system goes?
2. The CVJ's are designed to be anti-siphon not to hold pressure
3. When your car is off and engine bay temps increase under the hood it increases the pressure in the lines (already at 15psi) and causes them to bypass not leak. They are working as designed.
4. Methanol vaporizes so well in some race applications they dont even bother using efficient atomizing jets the literally shoot streams at the valves.
5. The stumble on start is due to added fuel that wasn't accounted for.
6. I have probably ran most configurations of DPI and can tell you from experience that using the non-CVJ's is a preferred method. Once you let off the gas and create a vacuum in the manifold it'll siphon the lines so quick you and your car wont notice. This works particularly good when you run a 7th jet in the CP and have a air source to fill the void.

Your thinking of the check valve backwards. Its not a check valve to prevent flow its a check valve to prevent siphoning. The spring tension is the only thing that prevents methanol from going into the manifold. You also need to go up a size to get proper flow. Jets are rated by delta of ATM. so to properly calculate a jet size it needs to be "Jet flow@ X - boost pressure" or for CVJ's "Jet flow @ X - boost pressure - 15psi"

I don't really agree that there is still pressure in the lines. mainly because once the pump turns off, there is no pressure in the lines. I've tested this. and I've never had pressure in lines with the pump off. Yes, methanol vaporizes fairly quickly when not atomized (100% agree). but in an instance where people run mixes and not just 100% methanol. the water does not vaporize as fast.

I've noticed slower AFR swings not using check valves, so it does effect the car. If they were leaking, I guarantee the check valves had build-up of debris or they damaged. So with that i'll agree to disagree, as it seems we both have experienced different things. just giving my opinion from experience over the years.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by TGNY 335

I don't really agree that there is still pressure in the lines. mainly because once the pump turns off, there is no pressure in the lines. I've tested this. and I've never had pressure in lines with the pump off. Yes, methanol vaporizes fairly quickly when not atomized (100% agree). but in an instance where people run mixes and not just 100% methanol. the water does not vaporize as fast.

I've noticed slower AFR swings not using check valves, so it does effect the car. If they were leaking, I guarantee the check valves had build-up of debris or they damaged. So with that i'll agree to disagree, as it seems we both have experienced different things. just giving my opinion from experience over the years.

Between the fav or solenoid and the cvj's has pressure. I know this from experience, but over time like sitting over night or a few hours when pressure increases yes they do bypass. I have 3 sets of cvj's, and they all do it from the second I installed them for the first time.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by TGNY 335

I don't really agree that there is still pressure in the lines. mainly because once the pump turns off, there is no pressure in the lines. I've tested this. and I've never had pressure in lines with the pump off. Yes, methanol vaporizes fairly quickly when not atomized (100% agree). but in an instance where people run mixes and not just 100% methanol. the water does not vaporize as fast.

I've noticed slower AFR swings not using check valves, so it does effect the car. If they were leaking, I guarantee the check valves had build-up of debris or they damaged. So with that i'll agree to disagree, as it seems we both have experienced different things. just giving my opinion from experience over the years.

You shouldn't have any Afr swings using meth. If you notice a difference in flow or capacity it's because you effectly loss flow due to the 15psi spring. That isn't compensated