BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      04-15-2010, 10:39 AM   #1
BerkTechnology
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135i Brake issues - solved?

As you know one of the Achilles' heel is the OEM Brembo brake caliper and the 135i's general inability to shed heat from its front brakes. The result after hard on track driving is boiled fluid, mushy pedal feel, and at worst case cracked piston insulator cups.

We will be testing some titanium brake shims from TiSpeed this month in a track setting. The brake shims provide you with a thermal barrier between the pad and the brake piston, thereby reducing the heat transfer to your fluid. Berk Technology will soon begin running in full wheel to wheel racing events where reliable consistent brakes will be one of the key aspects to driver confidence and fast clean laps.

More info on our blog and TiSpeed's website!

http://berktechnology.wordpress.com/...-with-tispeed/

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      04-15-2010, 10:57 AM   #2
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the problem with the pistons cracking is due to the stepped surface the piston contacts on aftermarket pads?

Which pads do, or do not have this small step in the piston contact area?
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      04-15-2010, 02:14 PM   #3
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Cool Carbon pads do not have stepped pads and are as per BMW OE dimensions.

Here is some more information on them:

http://www.coolcarbonperformance.com...R_BMW_135i.pdf
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      04-15-2010, 03:46 PM   #4
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We are going to try them as well at Buttonwillow this weekend (April 17/18)

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      04-15-2010, 04:10 PM   #5
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Please give a review. I am very interestred in the product as well...
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      04-16-2010, 09:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david @ eas View Post
Cool Carbon pads do not have stepped pads and are as per BMW OE dimensions.

Here is some more information on them:

http://www.coolcarbonperformance.com...R_BMW_135i.pdf
Yes I know! That is why I bought a set from EAS when you had the cool carbon discount sale!!

Good work EAS!
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      04-19-2010, 03:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
We are going to try them as well at Buttonwillow this weekend (April 17/18)
so how'd it go?
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      04-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #8
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I've got a set of those Ti plates to install as well.

Interestingly enough, I now have one caliper with a brownish BMW logo and one that looks as-new. Strangely, the side with airflow somewhat blocked by the oil cooler is *not* the one that became discolored.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmm...
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      04-20-2010, 12:56 PM   #9
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bump. how did it go? Very interested in results.
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      04-29-2010, 12:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the problem with the pistons cracking is due to the stepped surface the piston contacts on aftermarket pads?

Which pads do, or do not have this small step in the piston contact area?
Possibly but there was not enough conclusive evidence. The only guy who had that problem was Scott's car. He and I both used the same custom Hawk HT10 pad that was cut down from a Porsche 944 pad and didn't have the gas relief cutouts in the correct spot. Scott's ceramic inserts cracked, ours did not.

We bought an "off the shelf" Hawk HT10 pad about a year later and it had a correct backing plate on there.
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      04-29-2010, 12:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alow View Post
bump. how did it go? Very interested in results.
VERY WELL! We can now complete one full session which we have never done before due to the brakes overheating and the pedal going to the floor. As a precautionary measure we bleed the brakes between rounds. We used to see BLACK fluid bleed out of the front calipers after a few laps. Now we are seeing normal looking fluid! These brake shims from Ti speed are absolutely doing their part in keeping our brake fluid temperatures in check!
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      04-29-2010, 12:37 AM   #12
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The new setup:

265/35/18 FRONT
285/35/18 REAR

STOCK FENDERS!

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      04-29-2010, 08:42 AM   #13
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Did you guys have any issues fitting new pads in the calipers along with the shims? Did you have to grind down the pads at all, or use already worn pads?

This seems like one more good solution. I recently upgraded to DTC-70/60 pads and they performed very well, but I think my ATE fluid still boiled a bit because I felt an elongated pedal travel at the end of one particularly long and demanding session on the track.

Thanks for sharing your feedback on this and everything else.
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      04-29-2010, 09:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkTechnology View Post
The new setup:

265/35/18 FRONT
285/35/18 REAR

STOCK FENDERS!

Tire brand?
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      04-29-2010, 12:40 PM   #15
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Awesome. I've bought a set for my track car (not the 1). Had the same issue as you: mushy pedal after a few laps, black fluid when bleeding... Now I am really looking forward to trying them.

Did you also have cooling ducts? If so, were they there before you tried the shims?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkTechnology View Post
VERY WELL! We can now complete one full session which we have never done before due to the brakes overheating and the pedal going to the floor. As a precautionary measure we bleed the brakes between rounds. We used to see BLACK fluid bleed out of the front calipers after a few laps. Now we are seeing normal looking fluid! These brake shims from Ti speed are absolutely doing their part in keeping our brake fluid temperatures in check!
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      04-29-2010, 01:45 PM   #16
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We installed these on pads that already has some use and they slipped right in. If the pads are brand new you may have to at least bed them in first to give you the 0.020" of extra clearance you need.

Yes we have cooling ducts installed as well. For Vegas we installed both at the same time so I can't quantify exactly what is doing more, the ducts or the Ti Speed shims. I can tell you that the heat marks are only happening on one side of the shim, meaning that they are partially stopping or greatly slowing down the heat transfer from the pad to the piston.
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      05-04-2010, 11:40 AM   #17
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Bryan -

Can you share more details on he brake ducts you guys have? I'm wondering if it's possible to get enough real estate in there for a viable solution on a street car that needs to be able to turn the wheels enough for parallel parking, even with 245s up front.

Do you think this would be possible? My brakes got FRIIIIIIIIIED this weekend - brown, cracking enamel, crispy dust boots, and cracked ceramic piston inserts. :-/
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      05-04-2010, 11:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the problem with the pistons cracking is due to the stepped surface the piston contacts on aftermarket pads?
No, I bought Hawk DTC-70 pads, which have no steps/ridges on the backing plate, and my brakes were totalled after only 3 track days.

Track pads simply bring the operating temps of the rotor and caliper way above their design range. The OEM Brembos are not a race-quality Brembo caliper, unfortunately.
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      05-04-2010, 12:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradford View Post
Bryan -

Can you share more details on he brake ducts you guys have? I'm wondering if it's possible to get enough real estate in there for a viable solution on a street car that needs to be able to turn the wheels enough for parallel parking, even with 245s up front.

Do you think this would be possible? My brakes got FRIIIIIIIIIED this weekend - brown, cracking enamel, crispy dust boots, and cracked ceramic piston inserts. :-/
If you design the ducts correctly you should still be able to turn the wheels full lock & go through full bump & droop on the suspension. We had to make some compromises to our hose routing to be able to do all of this but the system absolutely works.
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      05-04-2010, 02:30 PM   #20
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So are these needed with coolcarbon pads or just with hawk?
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      05-04-2010, 07:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastman View Post
So are these needed with coolcarbon pads or just with hawk?
the brand or type of pad does not matter. anyone who is tracking their cars on brake heavy courses will see some or all of these issues described here.
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      05-04-2010, 07:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradford View Post
Bryan -

Can you share more details on he brake ducts you guys have? I'm wondering if it's possible to get enough real estate in there for a viable solution on a street car that needs to be able to turn the wheels enough for parallel parking, even with 245s up front.

Do you think this would be possible? My brakes got FRIIIIIIIIIED this weekend - brown, cracking enamel, crispy dust boots, and cracked ceramic piston inserts. :-/
These are our old ducts, we revised the routing a bit but it's all 90% the same.

http://berktechnology.wordpress.com/...5-brake-ducts/
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