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      07-30-2010, 08:11 PM   #1
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Automobile Mag Info on 1M - Details, Engine Confirmed??

Has anyone else seen this? It gives details on the powertrain and states the dct will have more horsepower than the 6 speed. This is the first time I have seen anything but speculation on the powertrain figures. Scott can you chime in?

http://www.automobilemag.com/new_and...iew/index.html

Last edited by erio; 07-30-2010 at 08:49 PM..
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      07-30-2010, 09:20 PM   #2
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garbage article..
M Diff is confirmed basically from pictures..
Engine is not confirmed, but its most likely N55 derived TT
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      07-30-2010, 09:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
garbage article..
M Diff is confirmed basically from pictures..
Engine is not confirmed, but its most likely N55 derived TT
You are wrong on all counts. I am looking at Car Magazines article at the moment - they have been driven round the 'ring in the car and the following has been confirmed:

1. 335 bhp / 369 lb ft - Confirmed
2.M DCT optional -Confirmed
3.M diff not confirmed but they are hoping to offer one as an option (if it does make production it will not be standard)
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      07-30-2010, 11:01 PM   #4
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Way overpriced car?

I dont know what is the credibility of this article but it's make no sense that the M1 will only have an extra 35 hp and will cost 10000$ more! I hope it's only early state speculation and that we may end up with something like 360hp and 369 ft-lb(which is not only available during the overboost period). Otherwise I might ask to get my deposit back!
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      07-30-2010, 11:35 PM   #5
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Something is amiss. Scott has previously indicated the motor will not be the same as the 335is, and would instead be a N55 derivative and would serve as the basis for the F30/F32 M3. Moreover, he has also indicated output closer to 350-360. And the M-differential being optional makes very little sense given that every test mule we have seen in the past 2-3 months has clearly been outfitted with an M differential.

I'm guessing this report is a bit innaccurate. At least I'm hoping that is the case.
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      07-30-2010, 11:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
I dont know what is the credibility of this article but it's make no sense that the M1 will only have an extra 35 hp and will cost 10000$ more! I hope it's only early state speculation and that we may end up with something like 360hp and 369 ft-lb(which is not only available during the overboost period). Otherwise I might ask to get my deposit back!

I agree and I'm also unsure of this article's credibility. However, remember that it's an M car so it's more than just horsepower that you have to consider. The suspension, steering, brakes and body have also been tweaked. That may be all they want for this car, which is already fairly lightweight. I do agree that giving it basically the same power as the 335is doesn't sound appropriate. Who knows, I guess we will find out in time.

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      07-31-2010, 12:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
I agree and I'm also unsure of this article's credibility. However, remember that it's an M car so it's more than just horsepower that you have to consider. The suspension, steering, brakes and body have also been tweaked. That may all they want for this car, which is already fairly lightweight. I do agree that giving it basically the same power as the 335is doesn't sound appropriate. Who knows, I guess we will find out in time.
Why? 550i has similar power to the M3. You are correct about the M car suspension,steering, brakes etc that is what the premium is for - m cars have never been about ultimate power - a 135i with a decent tune will be faster in a straight line , just as a well tuned 335i can hold its own or beat an M3 in a drag race but they do not look, feel and perform in all of the other areas that make an M car special. I'm sure this car will be fantastic to drive. Anyone who just wants 1/4 mile times will be better off in a tuned 135i.
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      07-31-2010, 12:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
Why? 550i has similar power to the M3. You are correct about the M car suspension,steering, brakes etc that is what the premium is for - m cars have never been about ultimate power - a 135i with a decent tune will be faster in a straight line , just as a well tuned 335i can hold its own or beat an M3 in a drag race but they do not look, feel and perform in all of the other areas that make an M car special. I'm sure this car will be fantastic to drive. Anyone who just wants 1/4 mile times will be better off in a tuned 135i.
+1. By "sound appropriate" I just meant that it doesn't meet expectations based on previously quoted predictions. Poor choice of words. 330hp and 369 torque in this car would be fun, esp with the M tuned chassis. A little more horsepower never hurts....
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      07-31-2010, 02:12 AM   #9
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The other mistakes which I thought was obvious was that it states it will do 0-62mph in 4.6 seconds, '0.2' faster than the M3. The M3 does 0-62 in 4.6 I thought? And with only an increase in 35hp is it really possible to be doing 0-62 in 4.6 vs 5.3 for a 135i unless there is major weight loss...
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      07-31-2010, 02:34 AM   #10
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Scott had never confirmed any power ratings and setup here - and I don't think they have had the final figures. Arguing one magazine is more accurate than the other is just pointless.

Scott never confirmed the rating here, but only stated the cut off is 360PS - which means the figure will be below 360 put not more. Previous information led us to believe the car that an "executive" drove before Geneva was not powerful enough, and that was rumours to be around 350hp. Not long after, Scott mentioned that the M division has managed to reduce more weight in the car.

So, I still think everyone is still making guesses (although some make better guess than others) after the ride as at Ascari as Scott has stated no information has been released.

MDCT is basically confirmed (although Scott has never utter the words) but seriously implied it at a recent thread.

LSD I would say is assumed since it's a M car and it has been in all the spy shots. They will get a lot of flack if there's no LSD standard. However, we can never be sure until the official figures comes out.

The only thing that is interested to note from the article is the M button. Although it's there in the test car - we are not sure if it will make it to production - as many people had stated - "the M button is absolutely useless, what's the point of having a M car and not using the M mode" may be on a 5er M, but on a 1er??

I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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      07-31-2010, 02:39 AM   #11
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Keep in mind is that BMW will probably under rate the output. First of all they don't want to lure away anybody currently planning on buying an M3. They also don't want to provide competitors (i.e. Audi) with a target to aim at. So they might be leaking an output of 335-340 while intending something closer to 360.

The other critical question is weight. If the output is truly 335-340, but they shave off 50-100kg, then I won't complain. Scott has previously suggested that M engineers have been happy with the amount of weight savings, suggesting the vehicle is at least no heavier than the current 135. We know there will be a carbon fiber roof, and as this article indicates, there may be additional carbon fiber elements. So I am hopeful the power to weight ratio will be favorable.

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      07-31-2010, 02:51 AM   #12
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"eye-catching fender flares made of carbon fiber"??? First I've heard that one.

"a variable rev limit... Once the engine has warmed up, the yellow warning sector climbs to 6500 rpm while the redline is set at 7000 rpm." I've heard the speculation about this before, but this is the first place I've seen that claimed it as a fact.

Interesting stuff, but I'm skeptical about some of their claims.
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      07-31-2010, 04:35 AM   #13
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That's why I don't think half of the vehicle's are facts. They are just guesses. I have never noticed this until I get on the forum. Does journalism requires the presentation of guesses as facts?
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      07-31-2010, 04:37 AM   #14
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They've got to print something in order to sell magazines. But it really is amazing how much speculation is presented as fact.
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      07-31-2010, 04:43 AM   #15
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We are all getting too caught up by estimates/guesses of specific output. What is more important is how that power is delivered. Will this engine run out of steam at higher RPMs like the N54, or will they re-engineer the turbos to deliver more consistent output throughout the rev range. Also, the gearing will important.

We won't know the answers to these more meaningful questions for months. So we should worry about other things, like manual cloth seats, power domes, and LED lighting.
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      07-31-2010, 05:18 AM   #16
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I don't remember there ever being an M car with optional LSD (I thought they were always standard).
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      07-31-2010, 06:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I don't remember there ever being an M car with optional LSD (I thought they were always standard).
There has never been an M car this cheap (relative to the marketplace) before. This is an entry level M car - some people seem to be forgetting this. We'll just have to wait for the initial press release but Car Magazine are usually on the money when it comes to releasing new car info.
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      07-31-2010, 07:03 AM   #18
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Everything is wrong.

Why BMW cannot give the M1 E82 380 HP from its 3.0l I6 is not because of the M3 E92, but because the next M1 F22 needs to faster/better yet having a 2.0l I4 with close to 400 HP. But M1 F22 will be about 80 kg lighter than M1 E82. M3 F32 about 100 kg lighter than M3 E92.
M1 will get at least 350 HP, 450 Nm till redline and weigh 1500 kg and LSD will be standard, it is a real M car.
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      07-31-2010, 08:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
You are wrong on all counts. I am looking at Car Magazines article at the moment - they have been driven round the 'ring in the car and the following has been confirmed:

1. 335 bhp / 369 lb ft - Confirmed
2.M DCT optional -Confirmed
3.M diff not confirmed but they are hoping to offer one as an option (if it does make production it will not be standard)
Engine: Car Magazine says "The highly strung, bi-turbo engine sounds very obviously forced induction, with a whooshing rush of air dominating the soundtrack as the revs wind out. The yellow rev limit area starts at 7000rpm, slipping into the red by 7500rpm. We spend most of our time hovering around the red; it sounds exciting, with a light pop when the driver backs off." This is definitely not the 335bhp/340PS engine planned for the Z4 sDrive 35is. The Automibile mag article (see first post) talks about an engine with identical performance data compared to the Z4 sDrive 35is engine. Doesn't look like anything engine-related is confirmed except FI I6. Time will tell ^^

DCT: Agree, many (credible) sources are talking about 6MT standard, DCT optional.

Rear axle diff: All the current mules spied are equipped with a LSD. LSD was mentioned by insiders here several times, so there's little chance that the 1M coupé comes without LSD.
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      07-31-2010, 09:11 AM   #20
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It souinds more and more like the 135is with M badging, which is of course no surprise at all.
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      07-31-2010, 09:25 AM   #21
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I would expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 - 365 bhp with torque figures to match. I would also expect the car to have a "temporary overboost program" since the majority of manufacturers seem to be doing that these days with their performance vehicles. I would expect the overboost to only come on under hard (and I mean pedal to the floor hard) acceleration, last for 6 - 9 seconds, and bring bhp and torque up to 400 - 405 for those seconds. This would allow the car to have performance on tap, so to speak, without the risk of pushing the engine too hard because those power increases would only last for the 6 - 9 seconds. It would be nice if an "M" button was mounted on the steering wheel and if pushing the M button enabled overboost. To clarify, I don't mean as soon as you push the button the car jumps up it's power ratings. I mean that when you push the button, the overboost system is engaged and then when you floor it, the overboost kicks in. If you don't push the M button and you floor it, you'll never see the overboost performance.

I also think if BMW is planning on making the next 135i's with I4's, they'd better do something really different unique or that car will flop. If you have a 135i with an I4, even if it's tuned to be making 400hp, it'll be nothing more than a modified honda with a bmw badge on it. 4cyl's just don't sound the same, and they certainly don't have the torque that 6's and 8's do. I don't know if any of you have ridden in a high hp 4 cyl. car, but even if they can accelerate fast, they don't feel as brutal as a 6 with the same hp. They don't slam you into your seat and push your eyeballs into the back of your head. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while they may have numbers that show they're fast, they just don't provide the same sensation of acceleration that higher displacement engines do. So if BMW is planning to make a new performance car with a 4cyl. then they should abort now. That is, unless they did something to make the car more attractive. For example, how many of you would over look the fact that your car had a 360- 400hp 4cyl twin turbo if that 4 cyl twin turbo was mid mounted? I can tell you right now I would absolutely love an affordable 360-400hp midengine bmw. That would be a nice car to drive. While the engine might not sound as nice as it would if it was a 6, the car would handle so well that it would make up for the engine. Infact, if BMW made the 1m a 360-400hp 4cyl twin turbo that was mid-mounted... you'd be easily able to destory 911's both on the street and on the track. There's no doubt in my mind that BMW could create a magnificantly handling car if they went the mid engine way. Of course this means they would probably have to make it a two seater, but if they are trying to make a "pure sports car" with the 1M, then that's what they need to do. The car would sell like no one's business and would handle like god. And like I said, if a bmw had 360-400hp, and had a mid mounted engine that allowed the car (along with it's sport suspension) to handle like nothing any of you have ever felt in a car unless you've driven the McLaren F1 (the last car with a mid-mounted BMW engine), then I would very easily overlook the fact that I had a 4cyl behind the cockpit.

Now for some problems I have with the direction M is going lately.

1. Forced Induction. M (as far as engines are concerned) until recently, had always been about getting the most power out of BMW's NA engines that they possibly could without resorting to FI. Doing this allowed them to offer truely "pure" high performance vehicles. Seeing M starting to use FI engines seems as though they've betrayed their roots. M was about providing the most excilerating engine they could by tuning it in every way they knew how, all while keeping it an NA engine.

2. Redline. I might be the only one who feels this way, but all M tuned cars should have high redlines. My E46 had an 8000 or 8500 redline and that was a blast. Apparently these 1M's are going to redline at 7k. Thats just sad. I like to see high redlines in high performance cars. Most new Ferrari's redline around 9000. A 7k redline is not indicative of a true pure sports car.

To me, M cars were always about high redlines, taking NA motors to the max and squeezing every last ounch of power out of them, and about doing entirely new suspensions so that the car felt like a race car and handled as such.

I'd be terribly sad to see a front mounted I4 twin turbo pushing 360 - 400hp, because every single honda can do the same thing, except weigh much less. But if they lowered the weight on the 1M to about...ohh.. 2900lbs, mid mounted the engine and re-did the suspension to allow for supercar handling and gave the engine a nice 8500 - 9000 RPM redline, then I would happily over look the fact that the engine was a turbo 4 cyl, because that car would would put the biggest f'ing smile on my face every time I got in to it. I4's are not okay in the front.

In the future, I hope M tries to stick more to their roots.... taking an NA engine and tuning it so that M has coaxed every last possible horsepower out of the engine. Giving the engine a nice high redline because 9000rpm cars are sexy, they sound stunning, and they make them feel more like true and pure race cars.

However, like I said, if M makes the 1M a two seater car, gives the engine 360hp (up to 400 during overboost), and mounts it in the middle. You'll have the first affordable pure sports car that has come out in years.... oh, and it'll be a lot of fun to drive.

If you just put a 360hp 4cyl 7k redline twin turbo engine in the front of the car, your car is nothing but a honda with a bmw emblem.

I don't know how many of you agree with me, but I feel like M should strive to maintain their reputation for taking N/A engines and turning them into high-rpm N/A beasts. I don't think the turbo road is the right one for them. FI cars are not "pure performance cars", which is why Ferrari and Lamborghini stay away from them.

Well, sorry for the rant, but that's how I feel. Again though, if they turned the 1M into a 2 seater with a mid-mounted 4cyl engine putting out 360 - 400hp that rev'd to 8500, and if they brought its weight down to 2900lbs, then suffice it to say that'd be the best selling most affordable fun car that's come out in a long long time.

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      07-31-2010, 09:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpuff View Post
I would expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 - 365 bhp with torque figures to match. I would also expect the car to have a "temporary overboost program" since the majority of manufacturers seem to be doing that these days with their performance vehicles. I would expect the overboost to only come on under hard (and I mean pedal to the floor hard) acceleration, last for 6 - 9 seconds, and bring bhp and torque up to 400 - 405 for those seconds. This would allow the car to have performance on tap, so to speak, without the risk of pushing the engine too hard because those power increases would only last for the 6 - 9 seconds. It would be nice if an "M" button was mounted on the steering wheel and if pushing the M button enabled overboost. To clarify, I don't mean as soon as you push the button the car jumps up it's power ratings. I mean that when you push the button, the overboost system is engaged and then when you floor it, the overboost kicks in. If you don't push the M button and you floor it, you'll never see the overboost performance.

I also think if BMW is planning on making the next 135i's with I4's, they'd better do something really different unique or that car will flop. If you have a 135i with an I4, even if it's tuned to be making 400hp, it'll be nothing more than a modified honda with a bmw badge on it. 4cyl's just don't sound the same, and they certainly don't have the torque that 6's and 8's do. I don't know if any of you have ridden in a high hp 4 cyl. car, but even if they can accelerate fast, they don't feel as brutal as a 6 with the same hp. They don't slam you into your seat and push your eyeballs into the back of your head. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while they may have numbers that show they're fast, they just don't provide the same sensation of acceleration that higher displacement engines do. So if BMW is planning to make a new performance car with a 4cyl. then they should abort now. That is, unless they did something to make the car more attractive. For example, how many of you would over look the fact that your car had a 360- 400hp 4cyl twin turbo if that 4 cyl twin turbo was mid mounted? I can tell you right now I would absolutely love an affordable 360-400hp midengine bmw. That would be a nice car to drive. While the engine might not sound as nice as it would if it was a 6, the car would handle so well that it would make up for the engine. Infact, if BMW made the 1m a 360-400hp 4cyl twin turbo that was mid-mounted... you'd be easily able to destory 911's both on the street and on the track. There's no doubt in my mind that BMW could create a magnificantly handling car if they went the mid engine way. Of course this means they would probably have to make it a two seater, but if they are trying to make a "pure sports car" with the 1M, then that's what they need to do. The car would sell like no one's business and would handle like god. And like I said, if a bmw had 360-400hp, and had a mid mounted engine that allowed the car (along with it's sport suspension) to handle like nothing any of you have ever felt in a car unless you've driven the McLaren F1 (the last car with a mid-mounted BMW engine), then I would very easily overlook the fact that I had a 4cyl behind the cockpit.

Now for some problems I have with the direction M is going lately.

1. Forced Induction. M (as far as engines are concerned) until recently, had always been about getting the most power out of BMW's NA engines that they possibly could without resorting to FI. Doing this allowed them to offer truely "pure" high performance vehicles. Seeing M starting to use FI engines seems as though they've betrayed their roots. M was about providing the most excilerating engine they could by tuning it in every way they knew how, all while keeping it an NA engine.

2. Redline. I might be the only one who feels this way, but all M tuned cars should have high redlines. My E46 had an 8000 or 8500 redline and that was a blast. Apparently these 1M's are going to redline at 7k. Thats just sad. I like to see high redlines in high performance cars. Most new Ferrari's redline around 9000. A 7k redline is not indicative of a true pure sports car.

To me, M cars were always about high redlines, taking NA motors to the max and squeezing every last ounch of power out of them, and about doing entirely new suspensions so that the car felt like a race car and handled as such.

I'd be terribly sad to see a front mounted I4 twin turbo pushing 360 - 400hp, because every single honda can do the same thing, except weigh much less. But if they lowered the weight on the 1M to about...ohh.. 2900lbs, mid mounted the engine and re-did the suspension to allow for supercar handling and gave the engine a nice 8500 - 9000 RPM redline, then I would happily over look the fact that the engine was a turbo 4 cyl, because that car would would put the biggest f'ing smile on my face every time I got in to it. I4's are not okay in the front.

In the future, I hope M tries to stick more to their roots.... taking an NA engine and tuning it so that M has coaxed every last possible horsepower out of the engine. Giving the engine a nice high redline because 9000rpm cars are sexy, they sound stunning, and they make them feel more like true and pure race cars.

However, like I said, if M makes the 1M a two seater car, gives the engine 360hp (up to 400 during overboost), and mounts it in the middle. You'll have the first affordable pure sports car that has come out in years.... oh, and it'll be a lot of fun to drive.

If you just put a 360hp 4cyl 7k redline twin turbo engine in the front of the car, your car is nothing but a honda with a bmw emblem.

I don't know how many of you agree with me, but I feel like M should strive to maintain their reputation for taking N/A engines and turning them into high-rpm N/A beasts. I don't think the turbo road is the right one for them. FI cars are not "pure performance cars", which is why Ferrari and Lamborghini stay away from them.

Well, sorry for the rant, but that's how I feel. Again though, if they turned the 1M into a 2 seater with a mid-mounted 4cyl engine putting out 360 - 400hp that rev'd to 8500, and if they brought its weight down to 2900lbs, then suffice it to say that'd be the best selling most affordable fun car that's come out in a long long time.
Obviously you have never driven a modified E30 M3 with a CF airbox. Your comments on the soundtrack of a 4 cylinder would change. Granted its NA, but ///M will not disappoint.

Now, I'm pretty sure the WRX STI's and Evo's were pretty damn successful with a 4-banger. Oh and that other 4 banger that has had the most success in weekend track warriors EVER, Miata.

It is all power to weight to a certain point. Sure you can have 700hp/800tq in a 5000lbs "sports sedan", but it will not handle like it. But 400/400 in a 3300lb small saloon......///Magical.

The new 1 ///M just needs to be LIGHT and it will succeed with a 4 banger.

Remember, ///M has never ever ever released something that was not the best of the best in its category (well except the S52B32).

T
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