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      04-22-2011, 09:56 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Ring time is yet another unreliable statistics to use. Who was the driver, what was the weather, what tires and it goes on and on.


http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/pors...elift_pdk.html

This site says the time is 8:06.00. Who is right, who is wrong, who knows.
The sport auto times tend to be the most credible ones. Wikipedia has the entire list including those by Horst Von sauma of sport auto.
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      04-22-2011, 09:57 AM   #68
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There is one thing on my mind: DCT.

This is a 6MT 1M pitted against an already fantastic car equipped with God's transmission. Its so easy that my Grandmother could use it. Personally, I did not think the 1M would match/beat the Cayman S' numbers. This is incredible. I can't wait to see it go against the BOSS 302, and the M3.

I've always wanted a Cayman S. Practicality is a non-issue for me at this stage in life. I would have to drive both on the same day. I know which one my wallet would appreciate though. :-D
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      04-22-2011, 11:17 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post

To the goof that's calling out the author's ding against the 1M's 52% weight distribution: that's a completely valid weakness of that car relative to the Cayman and isn't subject to the 50/50 vs 40/60 debate. Having a rearward weight bias (like the Cayman's 45/55) will always be superior to anything nose-heavy.
BULLSHIT. Ask a Porsche racecar driver if the 45/55 is always better, they will tell you pros and cons.
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      04-22-2011, 11:24 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
MANY people !
Simple : 1M has got 4 seats, a radio, a real trunk, low-end torque which is great for daily driving, smaller engine (less tax and better MPG).
It's obviously not a sleeper, but less in-your-face than a Cayman.

Why do you all keep thinking that people buy the fastest 0-60 MPH car that their budget can buy ?

Cayman R is track car. 1M is a daily driver that can be used on the track as well, and it will perform pretty well for a pretty good price.

Now stop the hating.
+1

The Cayman R is many thousands of $$ more expensive than the 1M and only marginally better in performance.

If Both cars were free and I had the choice I could probably take the Cayman R - but that also assumes I have another car in hand to drive everyday.

Cayman R is a weekend or track car that clearly outperforms the 1M - but the 1M is much more practical, both C&D and Autobid reflect that. If anything the 1M should be respected for its seating for 4 humans (somewhat confortably) while retaining respectable track performance.
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      04-22-2011, 11:27 AM   #71
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I wonder what the outcome would have been if they had put a Dacia Sandero,alongside
those two?
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      04-22-2011, 11:35 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egt135i View Post
Ofcourse the opinions here will be biased; this is a BMW forum afterall.

but if one could afford either of the two, id like to see who would buy the M1 over the R.
I would :-)

Extra space, almost same speed, near the same emotion, plus i don't need the overt attention a porsche gets you every day. Perspective changes when you're buying an extra car though...
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      04-22-2011, 11:52 AM   #73
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Did they ever compare the Cayman R and M3? price wise they are more comparable...
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      04-22-2011, 12:58 PM   #74
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What a heap of senseless chitchat!

Drive the darn thing! And yes, it is that fast.

If you simply use your smarts for a single second... 500Nm at overboost. So what will happen to the power at that point? No, you are not comparing 330 PS to 340.

Some interesting facts, since I did actually read the article:

The "Auto Motor und Sport" (should be Germanys #2 right after Autobild) had a 1M also. Strange things pop up:

...Autobild had "M MC 1913", Auto Motor und Sport tested "M MC 1904". The interior shots show both cars to have the same config.

The 1913 weighs in at 1536kg (Autobild), the 1904 at 1500kg (Auto Motor und Sport).

The 1913 does 0-200 in 17,8s (Autobild), the 1904 in 16,6 (Auto Motor und Sport) and is thus only 0,2s slower than the Cayman R.

The 1913 uses 35,7m from 100-0 (Autobild), the 1904 does (warm and loaded) 34,4m and outbrakes the Porsche by 0,7m even when the brakes are cold and the car is empty. (So much once again to the old urban legend of "BMW M brakes suck so bad"!)

Yes, the 1M beat the Porsche. And if you look at the data from Auto Motor und Sport, then not only in the price category. No wonder! Anybody here that wants to tell me, they can drive a mid-engine car faster, than a compareable front engine... what do you race? Most of the members here won't even be able to match the acceleration times of pro-testers because they wouldn't be able to do a standing start, but they can drive a mid-engine? Fast? Get real!

Fact is, the Cayman is castrated in order to not be too big of a threat for the 911, just as the 1M is not allowed to come too close to the M3. But honestly... if I take the price difference of the Cayman R and invest it in a 1M, I'll be driving circles around a GT3... so what type of a comparison is that in the first place? But still... the little bulldog won. Because it's good and that I am not assuming, that I know!
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Last edited by EmmDrei; 04-22-2011 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Typos
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      04-22-2011, 01:05 PM   #75
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Vielen dank herr emdrei, das hast du gut gemacht. :-)
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      04-22-2011, 01:31 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs/e60/1m? View Post
Vielen dank herr emdrei, das hast du gut gemacht. :-)
I don't know german, but if I were to guess I would say this means:


Long live the king, you have been owned."


Edit: according to google translate, I am somewhat off.
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      04-22-2011, 01:32 PM   #77
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@EmmDrei: But so what? All that chart comparison and lap times hypes. Who cares in the end?

Pimping an 1M and driving circles around a GT3? Wow! But again: Who should care? The GT3 owner? Sure, he'll give a laugh.

I don't know why people focus themselves so much on figures and dates. Just to show the whole world that they got the faster car for less money? Finger pointing "HAHA!"? I don't get the point.

Drive a Lotus Elise once and experience an unmatched pure and direct feeling. Even without beeing the fastest on the road and without 500nm. But I fear cars like that disappoint people like you. And this is why cars like a Porsche won't fascinate you: Too slow, not enough torque, not enough this and not enough that. If you look on a Porsche with that perspective, of course the price is too high!
So stick with a BMW and be happy knowing that you're as fast

Edit: @pyrat: Haha =) He just sayed that he did well. No kings and queens and stuff!
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      04-22-2011, 01:37 PM   #78
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People need to stop comparing Porsches to BMWs. You can't compare the 2. Porsches are entirely different kinds of cars. I've owned a few different sports cars so far and my father currently has a new Boxster S. The Boxster S is unreal. It's almost as if the car knows exactly what you want to do before you do it. Handling is superb, steering is perfectly weighted, and the power delivery is so smooth and consistent. I've driven a lot of BMWs and not one compares to a Porsche when compared to a car in the same class....M3 to 911, Cayman to M3 or M1...etc. Porsche will always win out.

This is from a pure performance standpoint. If you want to start talking about backseats, trunk space, interior comfort, etc, then you probably shouldn't be buying a sports car to begin with.
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      04-22-2011, 01:50 PM   #79
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I think the more applicable comparison would be:

Cayman vs. 1M
Cayman S vs. M3 ZCP
Cayman R vs. M3 GTS
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      04-22-2011, 01:54 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auggiem3 View Post
I think the more applicable comparison would be:

Cayman vs. 1M
Cayman S vs. M3 ZCP
Cayman R vs. M3 GTS
That wouldn't work...

Cayman vs 135i
Cayman S vs 1M
Cayman R vs nothing BMW currently offers

An M3 competes...or should compete....more with a 911, not a Cayman.
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      04-22-2011, 01:58 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
BULLSHIT. Ask a Porsche racecar driver if the 45/55 is always better, they will tell you pros and cons.
We all know a rear-engined setup is inherently wrong. Why are all of the top level racecars mid-engined? Why isn't the engine place directly over the rear axle, or up front instead? They're in the middle, because it's the best place to put the engine. End of. Bullshit my ass. A 37/63 split like the 997's creates massive initial understeer, followed by pendulum-like oversteer. Of course this can be tamed through staggered wheel setups and trick differential work, but its potential will always be limited by its inherent weaknesses. I think the only benefits to such an extreme rear bias would be straight line acceleration and breaking. Extra traction over the rear wheels makes the first an obvious advantage, and during breaking the car's balance is nearly neutral as the front tires load up under deceleration.
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      04-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #82
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BMW doesn't have anything to offer against a Cayman (S/R).

What you should compare is a Z4 (is) against a Boxster (S). That would make sense.

Why compare a 4 seat car like the 1M with a 2 seat sports car? It just doesn't fit. Of course the outcome is nonsense. And only because the 1M is as fast as a Cayman R (or faster) doesn't make it a better car. They don't match, you can't compare them.

What you should compare an 1M with are cars like RS3 and other 4 seaters. Just because the press can't find any new contester, they come up with comparisons like that one discussed here. BS!
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      04-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335audioman View Post
That wouldn't work...

Cayman vs 135i
Cayman S vs 1M
Cayman R vs nothing BMW currently offers

An M3 competes...or should compete....more with a 911, not a Cayman.

The cayman and the 1m are pretty similarly priced. If you outfit the standard cayman with the base features on the 1m both come in around 50k Euro.

The Cayman S is closer to 60k Euro (near the M3 sticker) and the R weighs in at 70k Euro. I know the GTS is way over the R price tag but its really the only BMW product meant to be tracked from the factory (lightweight setup, cage installed, etc.)

You're right though, the GTS would probably be more accurately compared against a 911 GT3. Both naturally aspirated factory track cars.

I obviously haven't driven a 1M yet but I did do the porsche driving experience at barber park in AL and hit the Cayman S pretty hard. At the time I had an e46 M3 and wouldn't trade it for the Cayman S....in hindsight, I think I liked the way my e46 was setup better than my e92...easier to keep in the power band and more fun to flick through corners.
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      04-22-2011, 02:16 PM   #84
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@skyphab: 95% of all Porsche owners never use more than 80% of their cars potential. And once they try getting close to the last 20%, they make utter fools of themselves. Ask Advevo here. He has a GT3 and he can actually drive it. Ask him how many Porsche owners he knows that can do likewise. It's still the guy behind the wheel. So yes, you're right... figures alone aren't worth diddlysquat. As far as that goes, a 330d is enough to blow most Boxsters and Caymans to oblivion. Not because the cars suck, mind you. And no, I'm not saying BMW drivers in general are any better. But there are people that will take a car to the max. Any car. Track or road makes no difference. Maybe not politically correct, but that's the way life is. You enjoy your Porsche and I'll have plenty of fun with my 1M and we'll both be happy. In the end life is really simple.

@ gs/e60/1m: Danke und gern geschehen!
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      04-22-2011, 02:42 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmDrei View Post
What a heap of senseless chitchat!
...

The "Auto Motor und Sport" (should be Germanys #2 right after Autobild) had a 1M also. Strange things pop up:

...
Was there a 1M test in the recent "Auto Motor und Sport"?
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      04-22-2011, 02:46 PM   #86
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I don't know, if it is in any print issue yet, but it was/is in the AMS iPod app. PM me an e-mail address and I can send you screenshots.
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      04-22-2011, 03:15 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxercup View Post
Whilst you can't argue with the raw figures, I feel the GTR experience is 1 dimentional and very PS3 like, not the same as the multi level experience of an ///M, perhaps?
while I think all this arguments can be each person's personal opinion, the editor has his opinion. when it comes to your money to chose which car is best fitted for you at that particular time and place...
How that test comes about and what it wants to get out of that test..maybe the numbers weren't the objective of the game.

You can't say the GTR is one dimensional until driven it for awhile and live with it. Other than that its just another person's opinion of a vehicle that they never owned or driven.

I for many months wanted to get a cayman s with pdk for myself and wife to drive (she can't drive stick) thats why I got the gtr when it first came out late 08 "and never look back since"

Last wk I put in a deposit for the 1M, to me its an overall better car than the cayman s that I've been wanting to get. If I were single, maybe the cayman R, but at that price range and if you are comparing numbers...there are a lot more better option than the cayman...'IF YOU ARE COMPARING NUMBERS'

but if you want driving involvement 'a DRIVERS CAR ' you can't go wrong with any M car or pretty much any Porsche..

sorry for long post and grammar
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      04-22-2011, 04:10 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Its hard to base cars just on lap times alone. I mean if thats all you're going to do with it then go for the faster one but if not then its truly up to the driver to discern. I mean a Cayman S is as fast as a Carerra GT in the slalom. Thats crazy fast. However, put it on a straight against an M3 and it will eventually lose out.

IMO, its all about the feel of a car. I remember a couple of years ago car and driver or a similar magazine said a M coupe was a better car at 10/10's driving but the Caymen S was the better all around car and daily driver for all situations. This is probably why the 1M is winning and the Caymen R isn't. Its just entirely impratical for everyday driving. I mean you have a tether for a door handle... Do you want to deal with things like that everyday? No and BMW M cars are more for everyday driving with occasional track use rather than a dedicated "drive it like I stole it" track/weekend car. M reserves those cars for the CSL type variants.
that is because the R stands for racing. it is not meant to be a practical everyday DD. it is meant to be solely tracked, which is why AC and the radio are added options.

and true, performance numbers arent everything, but i would also point out that the cayman handles much better than the m3 and most variants of big brother (except the gt3rs). that thing truly is a scapel. the m3 is precise, and i would assume that the 1m is too, but the cayman s and cayman r are a whole nother level. to compare the 1m to the cayman r is just funny.
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