[OpenFlash]

This is a follow up report from yesterday post.

Test car:
2008 335 FBO (helix IC, catless downpipes, dci, HF secondary cats, HM/Vishnu exhaust) and PWM Meth
Procede Rev2.5
6AT at 50k miles
No factory oil cooler (!)
91oct

This car made 385whp/455lbft on a Mustang Dyno yesterday running 91+Meth. Today, we retested on a Dynojet with the same calibration. Similar conditions (80F).


First 3 runs


The first run, you can throw out because the cold tires actually slipped on the rollers due to the sudden rise in torque. After they got some heat, they gripped and we saw a consistent 425-430whp and 450-455lb-ft. Interestingly enough, peak torque was identical to what we saw on the Mustang Dyno. But HP numbers were approx 11% higher which is in-line with what were were expecting. So there you have it.

Next, we made a few small changes to the test map. Namely a bit more boost/timing in the low end and a small change to the wastegate DC table. And we picked up some extra power/torque. As much as 25lb-ft in low end.

With some small mapping changes:


So then we did some runs using the currently available 7-29 maps run at the 16.5psi/0%IC and 17.5/0%IC. Since these new Aggressive maps have more boost down low and more ignition advance up high, we expected to see good gains. And we did.

New FBO Aggressive map vs. 7-29 maps running suggested boost/IC% settings of 16.5pi/0%IC and 17.5psi/0%IC:


Compared to the suggested PWM Meth settings of 16.5psi/0%IC, these new Aggressive FBO maps made as much as 40-45lb-ft of torque and 20-25whp up top. Pretty big gains across the board. And they generated some great datalogs to go with it. Solid timing, fat boost curve and very low IATs.

Aggressive FBO 93+Meth logs:


Next, we added some 98oct (from the a local gas station that sells high test fuels) to create a nicely controlled 93-94oct blend. As expected, power didn't increase over the 91+meth results since we are already running the ignition timing targets we specified. Perhaps we could go more aggressive but I think we are good for the time being until we get some customer feedback/logs.

Next, we spent most of the afternoon calibrating the 94oct map (no meth). This map runs much less timing advance and doesn't have nearly as an aggressive boost curve. But boost still peaks at 16-17psi down low. By peak hp, it's dropped down to 15psi due to IAT/octane constraints. Still made a repeatable 390-400whp/430-440lb-ft despite the back to back dyno marathon. I suspect a nice run on a cooler engine (and in cleaner air) would make a bit over 405whp.

93-94oct (no meth) Aggressive FBO map runs:


Pump gas logs still looked nice. Not overly retarded with excessive boost

Pump gas logs:



Compared to the 7-29 maps running typical 93-94oct settings (16psi/50%IC), the Aggressive FBO maps made up to 30lb-ft more torque in the low-end/midrange.

Pump gas FBO Aggressive vs 7/29 maps running 16psi/50%IC:


On the road, when running the 93-94oct FBO Aggressive map, the extra low end/midrange pump is easily felt. Car lunges forward when asked. And feels noticeably quicker. Strangely enough, it even feels stronger up top even though the dyno (and reality) suggest otherwise. But since you are not always driving above 5500rpm, the extra torque in the low/midrange makes the car ultimately quicker. No doubt. Especially after you grab the next gea and fall into the meat of the power-band.

But the real eye-opener is just how aggressive we were able to safely get when running PWM meth. 435whp is no joke on stock turbos on a 6AT that still has secondary HF cats. With a 6MT and running fully catless, I suspect we could have seen 440-445whp which is exactly what I saw running max-power custom-tuned mapping that I ran on my 6MT when it ran ran 11.50s on stock turbos last year (FBO with m10 meth nozzle running peak of 20+psi peak). But the difference is that now the boost is considerably lower considerably lower up top. And when using PWM meth, effective octane/IAT is stable/consistent enough for this to be a publicly available map. Even more apparent is just how "happy" the engine is when running meth. You can see it on the dyno and you can feel/hear it on the road. That's a function of the much lower combustion temps and higher octane. I don't know how many people have felt 470-480lbft of torque plateau (not a spike) before. But it's pretty eye-opening! I'll see if i can get video of this thing on the road. I suspect the owner (SIHK335) will have some fun with it

Tomorrow, I'll be going to the dyno to dial in some non FBO aggressive maps using Hellblazer420's 6MT (DCI and PWM Meth only). So by the end of the week, I should have a nice assortment of maps (FBO and nonFBO) to give out to those who have access to good gas and/or meth. After that, I'll see what more we can squeeze out of our miserable 91oct

Cheers
Shiv

[Bakeme521]

OMG I cannot wait for meth. Being that this is on stock turbos, how reliable do you think it will be? Or is it even really any harder them at all?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Bakeme521

OMG I cannot wait for meth. Being that this is on stock turbos, how reliable do you think it will be? Or is it even really any harder them at all?

Low end/midrange boost is more aggressive for sure. But up top, boost still tapers to 13-15psi by 6500rpm and just 10psi by 7000rpm. Certainly a lot less stressful to your turbos than trying to run max boost all the way to redline. On an FBO car, this boost profile really should be unreasonably hard on the turbos. In this case, instead of trying to make all the power through running more boost, we left boost reasonable up top and just ran more ignition timing courtesy of Methanol. That alone gave us over 15whp while dropping EGTs and improving engine efficiency. Truly a vice-less change given all the cooling/octane we have on hand.

[Bakeme521]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Low end/midrange boost is more aggressive for sure. But up top, boost still tapers to 13-15psi by 6500rpm and just 10psi by 7000rpm. Certainly a lot less stressful to your turbos than trying to run max boost all the way to redline. On an FBO car, this boost profile really should be unreasonably hard on the turbos. In this case, instead of trying to make all the power through running more boost, we left boost reasonable up top and just ran more ignition timing courtesy of Methanol. That alone gave us over 15whp while dropping EGTs and improving engine efficiency. Truly a vice-less change given all the cooling/octane we have on hand.

Wow, good job for sure. Music to my ears. Keep all this new stuff coming! I knew I picked vishnu for a reason

[Skydive]

Sign me up for the Hellblazer maps when you have them. He and I are running virtually the same configuration. I will be very interested in the delta.

[Pepe_pr]

OMG

Could you please do something like this on the N55. PLEASE lol

[PlutoniumTans]

Did you gain hp in mid range but reduced on the top end a little bit ? Or I'm looking at it wrong ?

[EastBayE90]

Great results!! Reading this got me super excited. I can't wait to get her back and head to Mexico for some of those wings you like Shiv lol. I'm curious to see what she will do without being FBO.

[TT3 iN NyC]

wow, can't wait to update to these maps!!!

Will I get similar results as the non meth dyno? I have the following..

Vanguard Exhaust
AR Catless dp's
ETS 5" FMIC
Stett CAI
Stett Chargepipe
PROcede V5 Rev 2B

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

wow, can't wait to update to these maps!!!

Will I get similar results as the non meth dyno? I have the following..

Vanguard Exhaust
AR Catless dp's
ETS 5" FMIC
Stett CAI
Stett Chargepipe
PROcede V5 Rev 2B

You will definitely need a Rev2.5 update (or Rev3) to take advantage of the Meth map since it advances timing at WOT. On a Rev2, without the advance and with passive retard above 6000rpm, you will be a bit down on power. So get that unit updated! We have pre-made Rev2.5s on hand, ready for exchange. Just email sales@vishnutuning.com to make arrangements.

Shiv

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Great results!! Reading this got me super excited. I can't wait to get her back and head to Mexico for some of those wings you like Shiv lol. I'm curious to see what she will do without being FBO.

Put it this way......

I was running the first version of this map yesterday with none of the tweaking Shiv did today.

Stock exhaust system...just DCI and Intercooler....so still a pretty good bottleneck to flow.

When the boost surge peaked around 4K rpm I began to have to correct the steering because the back end was getting a little loose on me.

That was in 3rd gear with the car already rolling at WOT from 2K

It can only be called T H R U S T

[TT3 iN NyC]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You will definitely need a Rev2.5 update (or Rev3) to take advantage of the Meth map since it advances timing at WOT. On a Rev2, without the advance and with passive retard above 6000rpm, you will be a bit down on power. So get that unit updated! We have pre-made Rev2.5s on hand, ready for exchange. Just email sales@vishnutuning.com to make arrangements.

Shiv

Hmm, so the meth maps can be used on a non-meth setup?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

Hmm, so the meth maps can be used on a non-meth setup?

Yes, this map is an Aggressive FBO map. Map1 is pump gas settings. Map2 is Meth map settings. With the Procede controlling the transition between the two maps settings based on monitored meth flow. If you don't have meth flow, you won't run the meth map settings

Shiv

[TT3 iN NyC]

Makes sense. So I'd be ok running these maps on the V5 Rev 2B? I don't have meth yet. In a nutshell, I just want to be able to extract a bit more power with the boltons I have. I spoke to you a while ago, and you mentioned the settings on the procede are too conservative, just want to make it a bit more aggressive. =)

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Put it this way......

I was running the first version of this map yesterday with none of the tweaking Shiv did today.

Stock exhaust system...just DCI and Intercooler....so still a pretty good bottleneck to flow.

When the boost surge peaked around 4K rpm I began to have to correct the steering because the back end was getting a little loose on me.

That was in 3rd gear with the car already rolling at WOT from 2K

It can only be called T H R U S T

Oh man! I already get a little squirrely. This will make it even more so with no diff and stock suspension. Ready to see what Shiv has been cooking.

[Overboost]

Can't wait to test these out. My car already feels fast. More low end torque

[SIKH335]

Gents

THRUST is being modest, this car is completely insane. After you feel the initial burst of torque real low in the RPM range the car just keeps on pulling and feels like the torque is pushing the car faster and faster it's all still there and you are just flying. You have to feel this to understand what this car feels like. It will break loose of traction in 1st 2nd 3rd, when ever you ask it. Full review later after I drive this beast some more. Why wait for other developers to get it wrong when it's all the safe power you want.

Beware newbies there will be Haters in the air who think the sky is red and the earth is flat, I welcome the haters to come take a drive my door is open. Cause they won't believe the data

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by SIKH335

Gents

THRUST is being modest, this car is completely insane. After you feel the initial burst of torque real low in the RPM range the car just keeps on pulling and feels like the torque is pushing the car faster and faster it's all still there and you are just flying. You have to feel this to understand what this car feels like. It will break loose of traction in 1st 2nd 3rd, when ever you ask it. Full review later after I drive this beast some more. Why wait for other developers to get it wrong when it's all the safe power you want.

Beware newbies there will be Haters in the air who think the sky is red and the earth is flat, I welcome the haters to come take a drive my door is open. Cause they won't believe the data

Wait....the earth isn't flat?

When did that happen

[Q4P]

Damn, if someone in NW Florida has a monster like this, give me a ride!

[DaFish]

I have Rev 2... you don't need any more than that to try these maps out do you? Guys like me in the stone ages (April 2011) can try it?

[135i]

385whp is a good number

Out of curiosity, any numbers without meth from that day?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by 135i

385whp is a good number

Out of curiosity, any numbers without meth from that day?

Yesterday, when on the mustang dyno, i spent the whole time calibrating the meth map. Unfortunately, I didn't do any pump gas tuning/testing due to time constraints. It was only until today, on the Dynojet, that I spent most of my time with the pump gas (93/94oct) calibration. 400whp/440lbft without meth and 435whp/478lbft with meth. Dyno graphs in first post