Was the 1M detuned to 340 hp ?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Venom

Spot on, the car screams lightweight 1M in a bigger chassis, the engine specs nearly match what the 1M is or is capable of being easily tuned to.

Wanna know a weird story ? Recently some at 1er forum (Germany) claim

• that back in early 2011 BMW (allegedly) launched press car 1Ms with almost 400 hp ("power output for which the 1M was actually built") (original software code E89X-11-03-502) instead of 340 hp ("to set the 1M more apart from the 306hp of the 135i/335i")
• ...but later detuned those 1Ms with a software update. Reason: BMW wanted to limit wear 'n tear.

Some say they got the info confirmed by "reliable sources". They add that tuners used BMW's aggressive press car set-up software to unlock the 1M to 390-400 hp.

http://www.1erforum.de/bmw-1er-m-cou...uf-147657.html
"Offiziell kommuniziert "Reduzierung der Streuleistung" bei dieser Soft. Da alle nach oben streuen is doch klar was das heisst. Und wenn das nach Kupplungswechsel drauf soll, dann is doch klar dass sie untenrum Drehmoment wegnehmen um die Kupplung zu schonen damit das unterdimensionierte Bauteil erst nach Garantie- und Kulanzeit verreckt."
"exakt das richtige File [E89X-11-03-502], was so ganz nebenbei das "sanfte Presse-Setup" ist mit dem die erste Charge kurzfristig aufgrund eine internen Managemententscheidung (hatten Angst das mit dem 340PS Setup zuwenig Unterschied zum 306PS ist) ausgeliefert worden ist (also die ursprünglich Limitierten Anzahl). Das "scharfe Presse-Setup" (für Hochleitungvergleichstest) hat dann ziemlich genau 400PS wofür der Motor selbst eigentlich auch konstruiert und ausgelegt aber dann politisch elektronisch eingebremst wurde. Auch der Grund warum das 390PS Tuning so schnell da war, die haben entweder das Presse-Setup kopiert oder die künstlich Limits rausgenommen. Und ich hab das unabhängig aus 3 internen Quellen ausm FIZZ und Steyr, denen ich vertrauen kann und is mir Nachweis genug.
Und es glaub doch wohl keiner das BMW das offiziell kommuniziert, ansonsten solltest Du Mami oder Papi nochmal fragen wie das mit den Bienchen ist oder dem Stroch so ist. "

Frankly speaking, I'm scratching my head because both claims seem pretty hard to believe. Does anyone have info about this ?

[Dackelone]

Let the wild conspiracy theories begin...

[boostedtwin]

we all know any n54 cars comes with more power than what bmw's sells...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Venom

I remember @Dackelone mentioning this and there was a theory that came about later that it was a mistake. My guess was that it was merely due to a mistake in KW to HP conversion. That would have been an amazing tune from BMW.
Weren't the downpipes on the 1M redone to make them more free-flowing. I could see 400HP with a stock-like tune from that reference.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Very interesting story Luc. I had not seen that, thanks. I think that is something that BMW would do. Just look how they rolled out their anti-tuner SW "update" and did not inform us 135i owners that they were detuning our cars.
Anyone remember this photo of mine ? 332Kw or 451 HP Looks like this was real.

Ha, the plot is thickening !

That might indeed be a sensible explanation for the wild figure on the notorious 2010 screenshot and the speculation about a powerful phantom Pyrat (1M CSL ?) (note: crank number figures, not at the wheels).

So maybe it was no typo, but a reference to a real 1M (aggressive set-up for testing by car journalists). Compare the 2010 and 2013 screenshots: 11/03 (March 2013). The 2013 screenshot features a car built in March 2011, thus amongst the first that were built.

At least six US press/demo cars were built in March 2011 (VINs: BVP75915 | BVP75916 | BVP75918 | BVP75919 | BVP75920 | BVP75921), all featuring special option S902A ("Special Inspection Press Vehicles" - "Sonderkontrolle Pressefahrzeuge") (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CK2ohNYK#gid=0 + http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/).

Car journalists started testing the 1M from May 2011 onwards. Maybe the cars offered to test drive were the ones with unrestricted power (unlocked with a software package, alike software packages for delimiting the speed limiter) + all 1Ms produced for consumers (not for car press tests) got electronically detuned to 340 hp ?

True or false/coincidence ?

Anyways, if this happens to be true (which remains speculation, of course), then:

• ± 400 hp = aggressive press testing set-up of the 1M for which the engine was actually designed and manufactured ("scharfe Presse-Setup wofür der Motor selbst eigentlich auch konstruiert und ausgelegt ")
• 340 hp = 'politically correct' electronic limitation ("politisch elektronisch eingebremst") to just under the E46 M3 hp value (which was 343 hp) - hey, it should remain a 1er;
• the detuned 1M has a significant power margin - far from the limit;
• original 1M power = approaching/trespassing M3 territory;
• BMW might have been worried about fast wear and tear of the aggressive press set-up - lots of power is merciless in straining mechanical engine parts + risk of younger demographic underestimating the power output and crashing 1Ms too easily + 1M getting too deep into the M3 comfort zone;
• car journalists did not drive 'doped' 1Ms, no they were offered to drive the ones with unrestricted power output. Porsche and Ferrari: eat this !

Now I also understand why a 1M forum fellow who works at a BMW dealership, and who put an aggressive tune on his 1M (± 400 hp), told that he did not mind voiding the warranty by fitting the tune "because the 1M engine is strong enough to handle the tune".

So, if true, the 1M is actually not underpowered: no, it is electronically restricted (muzzled). But the full power can be unlocked with a BMW software flash. So, does anyone want Santa Claus to bring software package E89X-11-03-502 ?
Ooh, don't we all like those wild conspiracy theories. If true, then - maybe, maybe - it might have cracked the code of the notorious 2010 screenshot mystery.

[Artemis]

From the archives: 1M dyno test of May 2011:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html
-----------------------------------------
2011 BMW 1 Series M Coupe: Dyno Tested
By Jason Kavanagh | Published May 25, 2011
There was a time not too long ago that BMW was emphatic that no model bearing the M badge would ever employ turbocharging. That all went out the window with the X5 M and X6 M, which pack a twin-turbo V8. Oops.
No matter, the faithful opined, since colossal garbage scows don't really count as M vehicles.
But now there's this 2011 BMW 1 Series M Coupe, which is decidedly not a blight on the M tradition. It's kind of the opposite, actually. And it, too, is turbocharged.
The 1 Series M Coupe is a return to the M Division's roots while looking to the future. It is the car of now. Accordingly, today we dyno-tested it.
Equipped with the company's N54 twin-turbo 3.0-liter direct injected inline-6, the 1 Series M Coupe is rated by the factory (that is, at the flywheel) at 335 hp at 5,800 rpm and 332 lb-ft from 1,500-4,500 rpm.
Peak torque rises to 370 lb-ft during an overboost period, the command for which is not driver-activated. That little "M" button on the steering wheel sharpens the throttle response, and nothing more.
We'll assume the overboost function was live because, well, just have a look below at the result from the Dynojet chassis dyno:

Whoa! Now that's some torque. From 2,500-4,500 rpm, there's more than 350 lb-ft on tap, and then it rolls off linearly between 5,100 and 6,700 rpm. It's pretty much done at that point, and the fuel cut arrives at 7,000 rpm. Peak power of 331 hp arrives at 5,150 rpm.
Torque peaks at 362 lb-ft and hits early in the rev range. As explained in a previous post, it's nigh unto impossible to replicate on a chassis dyno the drawn-with-a-laser-level torque plateaus that manufacturers provide for their turbo cars.
While BMW says it reaches peak torque at 1,500 rpm, you'll never achieve that result in the real world unless you wood it at 1,000 rpm in 5th or 6th while climbing a hill. No matter, since only a complete toolshed would drive an M car -- or any car -- that way. Downshifting. Learn it.
So, no, the 1 Series M Coupe definitely doesn't provide the power delivery characteristic we're used to seeing in M cars. Revving it to red doesn't provide the rush it once did. This one's all about midrange. But, man, there is an awful lot of grunt here.

This was no fluke outlier of a dyno run, either. Check out all six pulls here. They're all pretty tightly clustered, and there was no discernible trend of heat soak or degradation as the runs progressed. All the variation you see was random.
Speaking of heat, it is part of the reason the torque noses over around 5,200 rpm on these engines. The mixture is richened up and boost ramped out in order to keep exhaust gas temperatures at a level that will keep the catalytic converters and turbine componentry alive for the duration of the 150k mile life required by EPA.
BMW tends to rate its turbo sixes pretty conservatively, as we've seen similarly robust results like this on previous dyno tests of the 335i and 135i. It's likely that BMW employs a very conservative (read: hot) intercooler temperature when performing the power certification test. This would tend to de-rate the output claimed by the manfacturer.

Waitasec, the 135i has a turbo N54 and so does this thing. Beyond the peak numbers, what's the difference in sauce delivery?
Glad you asked. Here's the 1 Series M Coupe dyno result overlaid with our old 2008 BMW 135i long-termer that we tested on this very dyno a while back.
The 1 Series M Coupe just smacks down the 135i everywhere in the rev range. In particular, though, look at that additional meat slab of torque that the 1 Series M Coupe provides between 2,500 and 5,200 rpm.
So what do you say, fair IL reader? Is a small M car with boost the kind of car for which you hunger? Not that you really have a choice, as they're all headed this direction. In fact, contrary to what you've heard recently, we've got it on good authority that the next M3 is getting a hotted-up version of the N55...
-----------------------------------------

[RimasRS]

1M faster than M3 they cant do that so could be detuned later

[urbanstorm]

Looks like they detuned mine a little too much, but they left the torque alone.

Completely stock with 7300kms on it, 91 octane fuel, test ran in 23 degree C ambient temps. Traction control completely off and sport (M-button) mode active.



Robert

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by urbanstorm

Looks like they detuned mine a little too much, but they left the torque alone.

Completely stock with 7300kms on it, 91 octane fuel, test ran in 23 degree C ambient temps. Traction control completely off and sport (M-button) mode active.



Robert

If they are numbers at the wheel they are not really off. Mine did a tiny bit less than those when I had only 2000 miles and conditions were almost identical with yours, just it was a Mustang dyno.

[Dackelone]

@Artemis when we did our Stelvio tour one of the MunchenStammtisch guys (Thomas with the grey wrapped 1M) and I raced a few times on the autobahn. His car was completely stock. We were neck and neck(side by side) from 80 kph up too 260 kph. I was kind of shocked bc I expected to walk away from him(my 135i has 380 PS and 520Nm tune).

So... this 390 PS tune from BMW for their press cars makes total sense to me. I think there are still some cars out there with this tune.

Dack

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

@Artemis when we did our Stelvio tour one of the MunchenStammtisch guys (Thomas with the grey wrapped 1M) and I raced a few times on the autobahn. His car was completely stock. We were neck and neck(side by side) from 80 kph up too 260 kph. I was kind of shocked bc I expected to walk away from him(my 135i has 380 PS and 520Nm tune).

So... this 390 PS tune from BMW for their press cars makes total sense to me. I think there are still some cars out there with this tune.

Dack

You don't have an aggressive tune on your 135i obviously, I am sure you opted more for reliability. I think you have a bit more hp than stock 1M but probably still less tq, so with M3 chassis/suspension it makes sense that a 1M could stick with your tuned 135i. Afterall, enginewise only, it actually is no different than a tuned 135i.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

You don't have an aggressive tune on your 135i obviously, I am sure you opted more for reliability. I think you have a bit more hp than stock 1M but probably still less tq, so with M3 chassis/suspension it makes sense that a 1M could stick with your tuned 135i. Afterall, enginewise only, it actually is no different than a tuned 135i.

When I have raced another 1Addict over here with a 1M...I was three to four car lengths in front(of him) until ~200 kph. I was kind of expecting the same thing to happen. But when I raced Thomas in his grey wrapped 1M(going to Stelvio 2.0)... we were VERY equal. I'd say we had almost the same power output. It was only over 260 kph that I had a slight edge on him.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by andra

There is something else that bothers me and that is this sentence in bold:

" Da alle nach oben streuen is doch klar was das heisst. Und wenn das nach Kupplungswechsel drauf soll, dann is doch klar dass sie untenrum Drehmoment wegnehmen um die Kupplung zu schonen damit das unterdimensionierte Bauteil erst nach Garantie- und Kulanzeit verreckt."
"

In short and English: if your clutch is broken they will detune your car... because they (BMW) know that most 1M's have more power than advertised...

^^Yup! Remember when the transmission specs(N55) came out... the trans (or maybe it was the clutch) can't handle that much power. I think it was rated only at 380Nm or so. I can't remember exactly.

A 1M puts out 450Nm +50Nm on over boost.


Also... I know when I got my German flash tune... my tuner said most (135i)clutches only last about 30K kms with one of his tunes. I don't shift hard... and since then I have about ~50K on mine now.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I was kind of shocked bc I expected to walk away from him (my 135i has 380 PS and 520Nm tune).

Several tuned 135i cars were definitely on a par with 1Ms during the Stelvio tour. On steep uphill drives the 1M might have had the upper hand because of some extra torque (officially 500Nm but some mentioned up to 550Nm in reality), but elsewhere there was no way to outrun them.

Though, straining can take its toll (temporary): during a spirited run through the Black Forest with many consecutive hill climbs, a tuned 135i went into limp mode during its convoy/pursuit of two 1Ms giving it the beans. The 135i engine had to cool down for half an hour and then driven at a less spirited pace. Self-protection mode of the engine lay-out against intensive straining/overheating. The 135i tune was changed to a less aggressive preset and subsequently no further issues were experienced.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Remember when the transmission specs (N55) came out... the trans (or maybe it was the clutch) can't handle that much power. I think it was rated only at 380Nm or so. I can't remember exactly.

That raises indeed the right question: can it handle the brute force ? I can perfectly imagine that 500+ Nm is quite straining for mechanical parts. There are physical limits. I guess that on most early 2011 loaners (demo cars) the clutch was replaced after only few K miles. And the transmission also took a beating with all those test drives demonstrating each time the power output.

[eeghie]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

^^Yup! Remember when the transmission specs(N55) came out... the trans (or maybe it was the clutch) can't handle that much power. I think it was rated only at 380Nm or so. I can't remember exactly.

A 1M puts out 450Nm +50Nm on over boost.


Also... I know when I got my German flash tune... my tuner said most (135i)clutches only last about 30K kms with one of his tunes. I don't shift hard... and since then I have about ~50K on mine now.

Around the 1M development, the transmission was rated by the supplier up to 450Nm, and the engineering team then had to agree with supplier on tests that BMW M themselves would do to qualify up to 500Nm. It seems likely that transmission contributed to the reason why the peak torque is be limited in duration, ie boost period only.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The 135i engine had to cool down for half an hour and then driven at a less spirited pace. Self-protection mode of the engine lay-out against intensive straining/overheating. The 135i tune was changed to a less aggressive preset and subsequently no further issues were experienced.

A few years ago on a Best Motoring(Japanese) youtube vid I saw a (tuned?) 135i vs some competitors @ Tsukuba and the 135 went in limp mode after a (few) lap(s) as I recall because of overheating.

What has been done to the 1M engine system to prevent it better from overheating? I read a few things but cannot recall them. Intercooler/oilcooler stuff? We know the 1M comes with an oil temp gauge which the 135i doesn't have, but that doesn't prevent an engine from overheating off course.

Cheers
Robin

[Hobbe]

A piece of paper says 636 Nm, and so far no clutch issues.

On a different note.
I raced an E60 M5 (V10, 507 PS) on the local race track.
Upto 200 km/h there's no contest, but at 200 km/h the V10 starts doing its business.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

A few years ago on a Best Motoring(Japanese) youtube vid I saw a (tuned?) 135i vs some competitors @ Tsukuba and the 135 went in limp mode after a (few) lap(s) as I recall because of overheating.

What has been done to the 1M engine system to prevent it better from overheating? I read a few things but cannot recall them. Intercooler/oilcooler stuff? We know the 1M comes with an oil temp gauge which the 135i doesn't have, but that doesn't prevent an engine from overheating off course.

Cheers
Robin

I seem to recall that the 1M came with the extra radiator in the driver's fender and the HD radiator fan(higher wattage) - both parts are from the PPK(Performance Power Kit). I don't think the oil cooler is any different from a 135i. ?

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I seem to recall that the 1M came with the extra radiator in the driver's fender and the HD radiator fan(higher wattage) - both parts are from the PPK(Performance Power Kit). I don't think the oil cooler is any different from a 135i. ?

I thought that the other fender houses a secondary oil cooler too.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

I thought that the other fender houses a secondary oil cooler too.

Yes, it does - but its the same one(size) as used on a 135i from what I have seen.

[Eyeman]

From the dynos that i've seen, I think the 1M has 60+hp more than a normal N54's. For sure all N54s and N55s are underrated by BMW. I'd say regular motors shoulda been reported as 330 hp and 1Ms 390 or 395.

For sure when you start pushing 400ish HP our cars heat up fast. My custom flash tune gets me in the 400 range to the wheels. I've never taken it too the track or the strip, but a little 5 sec tire burning burst will pop my oil temperature up 5-10 degrees. Seems when I had a Procede that it might have had a tad more power and seemed to heat up even faster.

[trinity_2200]

I have a thought (but I maybe totally wrong):

The "overboost" may be just a gimmick, maybe in reality, our car is "overboost" all the time where there is no time limit. I personally haven't ever feel a clear kick-in and cutoff of the overboost which makes me wonder if it does exist or not.