Wastegate rattle (8 weeks garage visit)

C.J · 10-19-2013, 02:52 AM

Hi all.

I'm at a loose end, and loosing faith, trust and patience.

My 335i has BMW extended warranty and has had the wastegate rattle 3 times this year. First visit to BMW Stratstone Hull, replaced both turbos. Second visit, replaced both turbos.

Third visit (August 27th), they won't replace them. Testing has been carried out, engine, exhaust system out 3 times, then put back together.

8 weeks on I still don't have the car, and no deadline. They've given me a 118d (obviously I'm happy I have transport), but paying to insure and tax mine isn't cheap, plus if I wanted the lowest variation of a BMW I would have bought that.

BMW warranty line confirm no claim is outstanding.

Where do I go? I've emailed the director of Stratstone who replied expressing his embarrassment, to be passed back to the dealer service department.

I bought the car privately so I can't throw my arms around asking for a like-for-like replacement.

Help.

phil200tdi · 10-19-2013, 04:08 AM

Tell them to replace the whole vacuum system.

It's quite crazy how crap the techs are at most dealers...

gangzoom · 10-19-2013, 04:22 AM

Sounds like they haven't got a clue what they are doing....not really surprised. My main reason for not wanting an extended BMW warranty is because I have no faith my local BMW dealer would be able to do any form of complicated diagnostic/repair work competently.

Is there any way to get BMW to agree for the work to be carried out at some where like Birds or DarrenWoods...though I suspect not.

Josh1a1h · 10-19-2013, 06:29 AM

no chance... because they would have to fork the cash out.

I had turbos replaced at one bmw franchise... they fucked up my oil return line...

Went to another bmw and they persuaded the original franchise that they would do the repair at their cost... And that just didnt fly

AlanYoro35i · 10-19-2013, 10:15 AM

wait, so all you have is the rattle?

any performance issue?

As far as i know that rattle from the wastegate is inevitable on our cars unless you go aftermarket. I had one set of turbo's replaced and car is 70k miles. had rattle for a long time.

Is the rattling very bad??

AlanYoro35i · 10-19-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh1a1h

no chance... because they would have to fork the cash out.

I had turbos replaced at one bmw franchise... they fucked up my oil return line...

Went to another bmw and they persuaded the original franchise that they would do the repair at their cost... And that just didnt fly

Josh what happens when one of the oil return line is fucked up??

I got my car back and the car was smoking from the engine!!!!! something to do with a oil leak with a high pressure pipe?

G82Dude · 10-19-2013, 10:42 AM

Question is, why won't they replace them? If they don't know what the problem is, suggest they speak to BMW Germany and find out! They are the experts in this area and should know how to diagnose a problem with one of their products.

Have words with BMW CS UK?

And sounds like the director of Stratstone is no director at all, as he should be taking action. But then, like most people with "director" in their title: it's meaningless; they're gutless and irrelevant, with no actual power or authority.

C.J · 10-19-2013, 12:34 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I've raised the issue with 'MotorCodes' now, I understand they may help.

The original issue is the rattle, however after each return (Over 8 weeks ago now), the car would have another fault/rattle too. The last time it sounded like knocking suspension from the rear, and steering column issues (no idea if related). The rattle is present, the garage has even ran a side-by-side comparison with another 335i, so it really isn't just me bring picky.

Overall I'm extremely dissatisfied with them. My concern now is, with it being sat for so long, and being taken apart constantly, how many rattles/new issues will they cause.

Just to reiterate, the problem is them more so than the actual fault of the car (which every 335 owner knows is 'common')

Josh1a1h · 10-19-2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoro35i

Josh what happens when one of the oil return line is fucked up??

I got my car back and the car was smoking from the engine!!!!! something to do with a oil leak with a high pressure pipe?

It is going back to them to repair the leak and adjust the wastegates slightly as they rattle a little

windymissile · 10-20-2013, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.J

Thanks for the replies.

I've raised the issue with 'MotorCodes' now, I understand they may help.

The original issue is the rattle, however after each return (Over 8 weeks ago now), the car would have another fault/rattle too. The last time it sounded like knocking suspension from the rear, and steering column issues (no idea if related). The rattle is present, the garage has even ran a side-by-side comparison with another 335i, so it really isn't just me bring picky.

Overall I'm extremely dissatisfied with them. My concern now is, with it being sat for so long, and being taken apart constantly, how many rattles/new issues will they cause.

Just to reiterate, the problem is them more so than the actual fault of the car (which every 335 owner knows is 'common')

My local dealer too. This worries me a little.
The suspension/steering knocking could be related as the steering rack is removed to replace the turbos. I would be very worried if my car came back with a knock or problem from this area after turbo work.
There is no reason at all to replace the turbos in such a short time scale. Unless they fitted a faulty new item.
Can you go and demand your car back and take it to another dealer?

WM

C.J · 10-20-2013, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windymissile

My local dealer too. This worries me a little.
The suspension/steering knocking could be related as the steering rack is removed to replace the turbos. I would be very worried if my car came back with a knock or problem from this area after turbo work.
There is no reason at all to replace the turbos in such a short time scale. Unless they fitted a faulty new item.
Can you go and demand your car back and take it to another dealer?

WM

I don't suppose your 335 has been with them at all, during the last 8 weeks?

They've supposedly had 2 customer 335is in to compare to, confirming mine isn't as it should be. They've stated their next test will be check the pressure, to ensure there's not too much (I'm hoping it's not possible for the to restrict power as a shortcut). Any doubts I have, I'll be taking it to another garage for a check over, as I've lost faith in Stratstone Hull BMW.

I'm beginning to forget what the power is like in the 335, and I die a little inside each day I start the 118 up.

windymissile · 10-20-2013, 07:32 AM

Mine has never been in there. And by the look of it, never will. 8 weeks is outrageous! I would be seeking compo. Walk in there and demand answers. Get the manager out and cause a fuss. Talk loud and obnoxious. Shit gets done then.
WM

telewebby · 10-20-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windymissile

Mine has never been in there. And by the look of it, never will. 8 weeks is outrageous! I would be seeking compo. Walk in there and demand answers. Get the manager out and cause a fuss. Talk loud and obnoxious. Shit gets done then.
WM

Because causing a fuss will get you know where. A better way is to have a meeting in private and try and reach an outcome. The dealership could turn round and tell him to go to another franchise and his sales of good act is not applicable to the garage as he didnt buy the car from there.

I would take it to another dealer as this one doesnt seem to be able to get an outcome. I know with the manufacture that I work for customer can raise a case with customer relations. Is do think they are taking too long to sort the issue out

Alex

AlanYoro35i · 10-20-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windymissile

Mine has never been in there. And by the look of it, never will. 8 weeks is outrageous! I would be seeking compo. Walk in there and demand answers. Get the manager out and cause a fuss. Talk loud and obnoxious. Shit gets done then.
WM

On a saturday !!! Where lots of people is at that time!!

C.J · 10-22-2013, 06:40 AM

I've spoken with Motorcodes who provided some advice on what I can/should do next.

I have no intention of causing a scene, but will request a meeting with the dealership principle if it's not sorted within my given timeframe. I can request a breakdown of the work carried out (dates/parts replaced and tested etc) to ensure they have done everything promised, and put a claim forward for compensation for costs (insurance/tax/warranty) if it outweighs the courtesy car (which it does).

Other than that, I've been told to sit tight, I didn't buy the car from the garage so I can't demand a replacement or refund.

There's no light...

djgandy · 10-22-2013, 08:07 AM

Have you contacted BMW UK?

C.J · 10-24-2013, 10:49 AM

I've had a call today, confirming the issue has been resolved (just short of 9 weeks).

The cause was the vacuum having no pressure on idle (or when not being revved), causing the rattle on the wastegate.

My understanding is, they've amended the software to provide the correct pressure to prevent the rattle (half a bar was quoted to me?).

Does this sound right?

They've reassured me power has not been restricted, and I will not experience any performance issues.

C.J · 10-25-2013, 01:53 AM

I've done some further reading, and seen this SIB http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...wn54update.pdf

Can anyone tell me if the software update I was told of will introduce lag? The fact the wastegates will always be open worries me that the dealership is giving me a quick fix, to coverup an underlying issue. I'll be hugely disappointed if a twin turbo car, renowned for no lag has been given lag.

Any advice before I collect, again.

doughboy · 10-25-2013, 02:25 AM

CJ,

No SW update ever fixed the WG rattle, they just tried to hide it! There is no SW fix for a HW defect!

You last post is a really old software fix, from 2009, I remember that when I just got my 335i. Its about 40 revisions out of date!

Your dealer is talking bull as usual, with no vacuum you will have no rattles, part vacuum / leaks / solenoid faults / unadjusted WGs yes will give rattles. Just get the car back off them though FFS!

Your wastegates will be shut at idle with software post 2010, they are held shut with vacuum. They will open on overun, which can also be a common rattle point as they begin to open, then shut again at idle.

If the vacuum is not sufficient, or the WGs are not adjusted properly more likely, they may rattle, if there is NO vacuum like your dealer said then they will not rattle as they will be FULLY open, they DO NOT rattle when fully open only when partially open. If you have an idle rattle, you can check this by pulling of one of the vacuum hoses, all the rattles will then stop as the WGs drop wide open.

The rattle is the sound of the flapper arm & linkages "jangling' when they are nearly closed, a bit like the catch rattling on a door which is very nearly closed. With no vacuum the WG's are hard open by spring pressure and all the linkages are tight, so no rattle, and they are not working against the exhaust gas pressure pulses, as they are when they are partly closed.

When ever mine rattled, it was just a adjustment on the WG linkages to wind out the wear and all was well, DPs need to come off, so 3 hours. (£200 at Darren Wood)

As soon as you get the car back, get booked into Darren Wood or Birds BMW to get your wastegates setup properly, at your cost unfortunately But at least you have new turbos, which is a bonus!

This has to be done with new turbos, and judging by their stupidity your dealer can't/won't have done this properly for sure. They have to be carefully setup, each one by hand, to just close at 200mbar, this is vital for correct operation and they are not setup out of the box.

scaryprowler · 10-25-2013, 06:35 AM

Great information Doughboy! Thanks for sharing!

Josh1a1h · 10-25-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

Tell them to replace the whole vacuum system.

It's quite crazy how crap the techs are at most dealers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.J

I've had a call today, confirming the issue has been resolved (just short of 9 weeks).

The cause was the vacuum having no pressure on idle (or when not being revved), causing the rattle on the wastegate.

My understanding is, they've amended the software to provide the correct pressure to prevent the rattle (half a bar was quoted to me?).

Does this sound right?

They've reassured me power has not been restricted, and I will not experience any performance issues.

ISNT THAT WHAT PHIL SAID RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING lol

C.J · 10-25-2013, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughboy

CJ,

No SW update ever fixed the WG rattle, they just tried to hide it! There is no SW fix for a HW defect!

You last post is a really old software fix, from 2009, I remember that when I just got my 335i. Its about 40 revisions out of date!

Your dealer is talking bull as usual, with no vacuum you will have no rattles, part vacuum / leaks / solenoid faults / unadjusted WGs yes will give rattles. Just get the car back off them though FFS!

Your wastegates will be shut at idle with software post 2010, they are held shut with vacuum. They will open on overun, which can also be a common rattle point as they begin to open, then shut again at idle.

If the vacuum is not sufficient, or the WGs are not adjusted properly more likely, they may rattle, if there is NO vacuum like your dealer said then they will not rattle as they will be FULLY open, they DO NOT rattle when fully open only when partially open. If you have an idle rattle, you can check this by pulling of one of the vacuum hoses, all the rattles will then stop as the WGs drop wide open.

The rattle is the sound of the flapper arm & linkages "jangling' when they are nearly closed, a bit like the catch rattling on a door which is very nearly closed. With no vacuum the WG's are hard open by spring pressure and all the linkages are tight, so no rattle, and they are not working against the exhaust gas pressure pulses, as they are when they are partly closed.

When ever mine rattled, it was just a adjustment on the WG linkages to wind out the wear and all was well, DPs need to come off, so 3 hours. (£200 at Darren Wood)

As soon as you get the car back, get booked into Darren Wood or Birds BMW to get your wastegates setup properly, at your cost unfortunately But at least you have new turbos, which is a bonus!

This has to be done with new turbos, and judging by their stupidity your dealer can't/won't have done this properly for sure. They have to be carefully setup, each one by hand, to just close at 200mbar, this is vital for correct operation and they are not setup out of the box.

Thanks for the info.

The dealer called me today confirming the SW patch has removed the WG rattle, and it's ready for collection. I raised my concerns once again regarding "my fear of you covering up an underlying issue", but I've been reassured.

I'm heading in tomorrow and speaking with the mechanic who's been working on it. Until I hear/drive it, I can't comment, but I'll be thoroughly testing it, and getting the work checked over. I had a friend with a 335i auto but he's sold it within the last month so I can't compare

Maybe another 335i owner would like to meet up locally?!

10-19-2013, 02:52 AM	#1
C.J -_- 33 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Wastegate rattle (8 weeks garage visit) - SW update? Hi all. I'm at a loose end, and loosing faith, trust and patience. My 335i has BMW extended warranty and has had the wastegate rattle 3 times this year. First visit to BMW Stratstone Hull, replaced both turbos. Second visit, replaced both turbos. Third visit (August 27th), they won't replace them. Testing has been carried out, engine, exhaust system out 3 times, then put back together. 8 weeks on I still don't have the car, and no deadline. They've given me a 118d (obviously I'm happy I have transport), but paying to insure and tax mine isn't cheap, plus if I wanted the lowest variation of a BMW I would have bought that. BMW warranty line confirm no claim is outstanding. Where do I go? I've emailed the director of Stratstone who replied expressing his embarrassment, to be passed back to the dealer service department. I bought the car privately so I can't throw my arms around asking for a like-for-like replacement. Help. Last edited by C.J; 10-25-2013 at 01:49 AM..
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10-19-2013, 04:08 AM	#2
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	Tell them to replace the whole vacuum system. It's quite crazy how crap the techs are at most dealers... __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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10-19-2013, 04:22 AM	#3
gangzoom Brigadier General 1715 Rep 3,301 Posts Drives: E90 335i M sport Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Leicester iTrader: (1)	Sounds like they haven't got a clue what they are doing....not really surprised. My main reason for not wanting an extended BMW warranty is because I have no faith my local BMW dealer would be able to do any form of complicated diagnostic/repair work competently. Is there any way to get BMW to agree for the work to be carried out at some where like Birds or DarrenWoods...though I suspect not.
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10-19-2013, 06:29 AM	#4
Josh1a1h Banned 170 Rep 3,828 Posts Drives: AzuriteBlack 335i E92 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Central North to West London iTrader: (2)	no chance... because they would have to fork the cash out. I had turbos replaced at one bmw franchise... they fucked up my oil return line... Went to another bmw and they persuaded the original franchise that they would do the repair at their cost... And that just didnt fly
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10-19-2013, 10:15 AM	#5
AlanYoro35i Senior Troll 225 Rep 3,378 Posts Drives: Coming soon-718 Cayman S Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: South West iTrader: (1)	wait, so all you have is the rattle? any performance issue? As far as i know that rattle from the wastegate is inevitable on our cars unless you go aftermarket. I had one set of turbo's replaced and car is 70k miles. had rattle for a long time. Is the rattling very bad?? __________________ Gone: N54 335i is the Legend! N55 435i Now: 718 Cayman GTS / F83 M4
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10-19-2013, 10:42 AM	#7
G82Dude - 294 Rep 2,602 Posts Drives: M4CMxD Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	Question is, why won't they replace them? If they don't know what the problem is, suggest they speak to BMW Germany and find out! They are the experts in this area and should know how to diagnose a problem with one of their products. Have words with BMW CS UK? And sounds like the director of Stratstone is no director at all, as he should be taking action. But then, like most people with "director" in their title: it's meaningless; they're gutless and irrelevant, with no actual power or authority. Last edited by G82Dude; 10-19-2013 at 10:48 AM..
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10-19-2013, 12:34 PM	#8
C.J -_- 33 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the replies. I've raised the issue with 'MotorCodes' now, I understand they may help. The original issue is the rattle, however after each return (Over 8 weeks ago now), the car would have another fault/rattle too. The last time it sounded like knocking suspension from the rear, and steering column issues (no idea if related). The rattle is present, the garage has even ran a side-by-side comparison with another 335i, so it really isn't just me bring picky. Overall I'm extremely dissatisfied with them. My concern now is, with it being sat for so long, and being taken apart constantly, how many rattles/new issues will they cause. Just to reiterate, the problem is them more so than the actual fault of the car (which every 335 owner knows is 'common')
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10-20-2013, 07:32 AM	#12
windymissile Major 67 Rep 1,431 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Mine has never been in there. And by the look of it, never will. 8 weeks is outrageous! I would be seeking compo. Walk in there and demand answers. Get the manager out and cause a fuss. Talk loud and obnoxious. Shit gets done then. WM
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10-22-2013, 06:40 AM	#15
C.J -_- 33 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I've spoken with Motorcodes who provided some advice on what I can/should do next. I have no intention of causing a scene, but will request a meeting with the dealership principle if it's not sorted within my given timeframe. I can request a breakdown of the work carried out (dates/parts replaced and tested etc) to ensure they have done everything promised, and put a claim forward for compensation for costs (insurance/tax/warranty) if it outweighs the courtesy car (which it does). Other than that, I've been told to sit tight, I didn't buy the car from the garage so I can't demand a replacement or refund. There's no light...
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10-22-2013, 08:07 AM	#16
djgandy Colonel 146 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: E93 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: London iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [0.00]	Have you contacted BMW UK?
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10-24-2013, 10:49 AM	#17
C.J -_- 33 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I've had a call today, confirming the issue has been resolved (just short of 9 weeks). The cause was the vacuum having no pressure on idle (or when not being revved), causing the rattle on the wastegate. My understanding is, they've amended the software to provide the correct pressure to prevent the rattle (half a bar was quoted to me?). Does this sound right? They've reassured me power has not been restricted, and I will not experience any performance issues.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-25-2013, 01:53 AM	#18
C.J -_- 33 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I've done some further reading, and seen this SIB http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...wn54update.pdf Can anyone tell me if the software update I was told of will introduce lag? The fact the wastegates will always be open worries me that the dealership is giving me a quick fix, to coverup an underlying issue. I'll be hugely disappointed if a twin turbo car, renowned for no lag has been given lag. Any advice before I collect, again.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-25-2013, 02:25 AM	#19
doughboy Major General 1546 Rep 8,972 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 Comp 6MT Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	CJ, No SW update ever fixed the WG rattle, they just tried to hide it! There is no SW fix for a HW defect! You last post is a really old software fix, from 2009, I remember that when I just got my 335i. Its about 40 revisions out of date! Your dealer is talking bull as usual, with no vacuum you will have no rattles, part vacuum / leaks / solenoid faults / unadjusted WGs yes will give rattles. Just get the car back off them though FFS! Your wastegates will be shut at idle with software post 2010, they are held shut with vacuum. They will open on overun, which can also be a common rattle point as they begin to open, then shut again at idle. If the vacuum is not sufficient, or the WGs are not adjusted properly more likely, they may rattle, if there is NO vacuum like your dealer said then they will not rattle as they will be FULLY open, they DO NOT rattle when fully open only when partially open. If you have an idle rattle, you can check this by pulling of one of the vacuum hoses, all the rattles will then stop as the WGs drop wide open. The rattle is the sound of the flapper arm & linkages "jangling' when they are nearly closed, a bit like the catch rattling on a door which is very nearly closed. With no vacuum the WG's are hard open by spring pressure and all the linkages are tight, so no rattle, and they are not working against the exhaust gas pressure pulses, as they are when they are partly closed. When ever mine rattled, it was just a adjustment on the WG linkages to wind out the wear and all was well, DPs need to come off, so 3 hours. (£200 at Darren Wood) As soon as you get the car back, get booked into Darren Wood or Birds BMW to get your wastegates setup properly, at your cost unfortunately But at least you have new turbos, which is a bonus! This has to be done with new turbos, and judging by their stupidity your dealer can't/won't have done this properly for sure. They have to be carefully setup, each one by hand, to just close at 200mbar, this is vital for correct operation and they are not setup out of the box. Last edited by doughboy; 10-25-2013 at 02:48 AM..
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10-25-2013, 06:35 AM	#20
scaryprowler Private First Class 2 Rep 120 Posts Drives: E92 335i DCT Join Date: May 2011 Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom iTrader: (0)	Great information Doughboy! Thanks for sharing!
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