DSB pics after detail - new 701's and tires!

[thez99]

Well right now with the 5mm spacers i have about 6-7mm maybe of space between the tire and strut which is obviously plenty. Ive read that most people realize only bout 3-4 is necessary with no rubbing problems. Course now im a little close to the fender, not rubbing unless i hit a dip, etc. but still. Question is if i added the m3 parts (dont think i need the camber plates as I dont track, id rather a consistent camber) and that added a bit of neg camber up front with the 5mm spacers, would that bring the tire back closer to the strut again or would the camber bring it more in line with the strut cuz isnt the strut up at a slight angle, not just straight up from the wheel. Im pretty sure that i wouldnt have any fender rubbing problems at all, even on dips if I just rolled the fenders and added the m3 parts giving the front tires a dip inward with camber. Just not totally convinced

[dicker]

Originally Posted by thez99

Huh?

Simply adding PS shocks to my setup would not make anything rub..dicky i honestly think u must have the wrong idea about what causes rubbing and what doesnt. Shocks do not lower the car, they adjust dampening and shock absorption. Lowering springs will thou, you had (or still have) eibachs which lower the car more than the PS spring do by bout atleast .5", not only that but they rake in the front which is pretty much bad news for anyone running a wider tire setup like mine. This is prob the main reason for ur rubbing, not the shocks and not ur wheels. What you need to do is look into what im considering with my suspension work: buying the M3 parts that will boost ur ride and performance as well as add necessary camber to the front and a little to the back allowing u a little more space from the fenders. Going with a mild drop like the PS springs (thou those are pretty much the only ones i know that dont either rake or drop the care too far for wide tire setups) and pair them with whichever shocks you like. Then do an alignment to make sure everything is dandy and add a 3-5mm spacer up front if its needed to push the tire away from the strut (but in our case, or least mine, only a 3 or none at all would be necessary). Then roll the fenders.

I do have a question for anyone who does have a clue bout rolling the fenders on our cars thou. The fronts I know are plastic without a liner up top so looks like rolling them shouldnt be too bad and I could prob free up anywhere up to about 5-6mm of play on each side, however the rear feels more like solid metal and its connected to the inside liner, just curious how much I could hope to free up in the rears if its even possible to really roll them without damaging either the fender or the liner?? Also..im assuming that only the fender area thats right above the tire is the only space that is rolled? Nobody rolls areas in front of the tires behind the front bumper, or behind the rear tires do they? I mean i ran my finger along the entirety of the inside fender front and back and both you can feel the separation between front and behind where the wheel is and the area right above so im assuming thats always the area thats rolled n pulled ya? Yes im a noob when it comes to rolling, never done it before so id want to know for sure im doing the right shit before i go n accidentally fuck them up.

LOL thanks for the reply dude, I'm just messing with you about the shocks making it rub. I know how to piece together suspension and wheels/tires for cars, I've even got a class winning time trial car. It rubs though.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by dicker

LOL thanks for the reply dude, I'm just messing with you about the shocks making it rub. I know how to piece together suspension and wheels/tires for cars, I've even got a class winning time trial car. It rubs though.

Ya i know it rubs, u just need to figure the hell out WHY its rubbing, but honestly I can tell ya its not the tire size. It has to either be an issue with ur springs or maybe an alignment issue, cuz the size wheels/tires ur running are not even as agressive as mine, and yet i dont rub and u do

[dicker]

Height difference in the car. I'm just rubbing the liner on the outside of the passenger wheel well. Camber is -1.5*

Doesn't bother me at all, just something that happens.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by dicker

Height difference in the car. I'm just rubbing the liner on the outside of the passenger wheel well. Camber is -1.5*

Doesn't bother me at all, just something that happens.

You talking the rear or front passenger. And did u increase camber or is that stock camber

[dicker]

Right rear wheel.
It's close to stock I think, I could only get -.8* from the front after taking the pins out and I did not want a drastic difference. Once I get some suspension with camber plates I'll be shooting for -2* in the front

[thez99]

Originally Posted by dicker

Right rear wheel.
It's close to stock I think, I could only get -.8* from the front after taking the pins out and I did not want a drastic difference. Once I get some suspension with camber plates I'll be shooting for -2* in the front

But any added neg camber in the rear?

[1013mm]

add negative camber or keep the spacer with rolled fenders. your fender up front can be rolled flat. mine are almost paper thin

[thez99]

My one most important question hasnt really been touched yet, and thats if i keep the spacers on and add the neg camber to the front with the m3 parts, will that neg camber bring the tires inside edge closer to the strut again like it was before i added the spacer? Or will it just be in line with the strut? Cuz i figure, why not just keep the spacers, add the neg camber and roll the fenders?

[1013mm]

Originally Posted by thez99

My one most important question hasnt really been touched yet, and thats if i keep the spacers on and add the neg camber to the front with the m3 parts, will that neg camber bring the tires inside edge closer to the strut again like it was before i added the spacer? Or will it just be in line with the strut? Cuz i figure, why not just keep the spacers, add the neg camber and roll the fenders?

Yes, you can do the spacer, plus neg camber, plus fender roll. it will be an easy fit. or you can just do just the fender roll and it will fit easy. Like I said with a fender roll you get can get around AT LEAST 10mm of clearance easy.

[dicker]

the wheel and strut clearance will not change.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by jzhang

Yes, you can do the spacer, plus neg camber, plus fender roll. it will be an easy fit. or you can just do just the fender roll and it will fit easy. Like I said with a fender roll you get can get around AT LEAST 10mm of clearance easy.

K sweet.

And dick, i wasnt really speakin bout the wheel, i was saying that since my inside tire edge was so close to the strut before i added the 5's, would me adding negative camber (tilting the wheel n tire inwards) bring the tire back close to the strut like it was before the spacer?

[dicker]

no, when you add negative camber with a strut style suspension it doesn't change because the strut moves with the wheel. That's why I said the clearance wont change.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by dicker

no, when you add negative camber with a strut style suspension it doesn't change because the strut moves with the wheel. That's why I said the clearance wont change.

Hmm, well thats something I didnt realize..

This may sound retarded, but in my head, it would seem like if the strut moved inward/diagonally along with the wheel, wouldnt that slightly mess with the height of the car since the struts have the springs attached??

Prob doesnt make sense but it was just a thought.

[1013mm]

no affect.

[thez99]

Yes im too lazy to post this elsewhere..but after i install the m3 front control arms and my shop does the alignment, do I need to give them any specific numbers like for what the camber should be set to with the new hardware or should they just do a regular alignment? That part of the whole suspension setup always kind of confused me

P.S. Without any m3 bits or camber plates, whats the most neg camber you can dial in for the front wheels with an alignment (im assuming by removing the "pins", etc.) I only ask because I was considering going with just the front m3 control arm kit from HPA and then doing the rest later but to be honest id much rather do the entire suspension setup all at once (PS springs and strut mounts, koni yellows at 50%, M3:front control arm kit, rear upper link kit and/or guide rod kit ((which is more beneficial?)), and rear subframe bushings). That way I can save a bit on labor n just have it all done at once, might as well if their going in there to replace the control arms. But ya, for now, till i get the money i need again for this, can I just have my shop do an alignment and dial in a bit more neg camber with the pins removed? If I could that would atleast keep my front tires tucked in the fender nuff to not hafta worry bout rubbing at all. I can certainly live with it the way it is now, it only rubs the fender over big dips doing fairly fast or hard turns at nuff speed, but this would just put my mind a lil more at ease.

[competition]

i maxed out at -1.5 in the front and -2.7 in the rear with stock components.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by goeslikeschnell

i maxed out at -1.5 in the front and -2.7 in the rear with stock components.

How is that possible? You just did this with pin removal and an alignment or wut?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by goeslikeschnell

i maxed out at -1.5 in the front and -2.7 in the rear with stock components.

Bump for a response

[thez99]

^^

[1013mm]

just pm us man. we don't bite.

[thez99]

He does

I just wanna know what to tell my shop, like what kinda numbers I wanna shoot for in the front. I sent their SA an email last night, told em i basically wanted the max neg camber up front with the strut alignment pins pulled.