New Dampers - Koni FSD

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Can't go wrong with either them or the Koni Yellows. FSDs are built for soft comfort only, and really fall on their face when pushed.

Tirerack tests show they're at least decent. No doubt the yellows would perform better at a harder setting, but the tests surely show the fsds don't "fall on their face" when pushed. A substantial improvement in handling over stock.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/tests/koni_fsd_s.jsp

Originally Posted by Garabins

Would you guys go as far as saying that the Koni Yellows on thier softest setting are as comfortable as the Koni FSDs?

Not according to tirerack (above).

I'll have personal experience to report in a while <grin>.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Tirerack tests show they're at least decent. No doubt the yellows would perform better at a harder setting, but the tests surely show the fsds don't "fall on their face" when pushed. A substantial improvement in handling over stock.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/tests/koni_fsd_s.jsp



Not according to tirerack (above).

I'll have personal experience to report in a while <grin>.

Go drive them back to back. I like FSDs a lot, just not for performance driving.

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Just curious, do you know anyone who has used them? Are they really that bad when pushed, at say a lapping day?

Was thinking about them for my car, which is a daily driver first and foremost, and a lapping/teaching car second.

Had them on my 335. I think they would exacerbate the floating problem if anything

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Go drive them back to back. I like FSDs a lot, just not for performance driving.

There's no question that properly setup yellows would handle better than FSDs. For any serious performance driver who's running heavy springs and maybe coilovers, the FSDs are clearly not the top choice. Koni says they are not to be used with lowering springs.

But there are also many people (I'm one of them) whose goal is a compromise car that both handles better and rides better than stock. From what I've read, FSDs have a place there. I'll be pairing them with stock springs, stiffening other things like bushings and the front antiroll bar.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

There's no question that properly setup yellows would handle better than FSDs. For any serious performance driver who's running heavy springs and maybe coilovers, the FSDs are clearly not the top choice. Koni says they are not to be used with lowering springs.

But there are also many people (I'm one of them) whose goal is a compromise car that both handles better and rides better than stock. From what I've read, FSDs have a place there. I'll be pairing them with stock springs, stiffening other things like bushings and the front antiroll bar.

For a 'vert, I imagine FSDs would be appropriate.

[Garabins]

I feel that I just want a set it and forget it Setup, in all honesty I really never push the car to its absolute limits. I will maybe autox it once or twice and a few drag strip days, and that is about it. I’m looking for something comfortable but yet sporty; my biggest concern is to eliminate this sloppy/floaty feeling from the weak OEM Dampers. From everything that I have read, the Koni FSDs seems to have what I’m looking for. I’m also considering putting some H&R OE Springs on with the FSDs, and that should give me a semi stiff but yet comfortable daily ride with a small drop. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Garabins

I feel that I just want a set it and forget it Setup, in all honesty I really never push the car to its absolute limits. I will maybe autox it once or twice and a few drag strip days, and that is about it. I’m looking for something comfortable but yet sporty; my biggest concern is to eliminate this sloppy/floaty feeling from the weak OEM Dampers. From everything that I have read, the Koni FSDs seems to have what I’m looking for. I’m also considering putting some H&R OE Springs on with the FSDs, and that should give me a semi stiff but yet comfortable daily ride with a small drop. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

You can set and forget yellows. And they are very comfortable. My Bilsteins are also comfortable, just ride a bit differently (again, the Bilsteins are on my fiance's car...and she much prefers them to the OE POSs). Bilsteins give much more road feel, but soak up the big impacts better. Konis still jolt in teh big stuff, but smoothed out the small irregularities more.

Just not a fan of the FSDs when at least yellows ride so nicely.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by uberschnell

Had them on my 335. I think they would exacerbate the floating problem if anything

Garabins, isn't that your primary concern?

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Garabins

I feel that I just want a set it and forget it Setup, in all honesty I really never push the car to its absolute limits. I will maybe autox it once or twice and a few drag strip days, and that is about it. I’m looking for something comfortable but yet sporty; my biggest concern is to eliminate this sloppy/floaty feeling from the weak OEM Dampers. From everything that I have read, the Koni FSDs seems to have what I’m looking for. I’m also considering putting some H&R OE Springs on with the FSDs, and that should give me a semi stiff but yet comfortable daily ride with a small drop. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

The sloppy/floaty feeling is from the stock bushings. FSDs will just further float on top of that.

[Dackelone]

I totally agree with what TheSt|G posted above in this thread.

While FSD's are good shocks... they are not really designed for the performance minded driver. In past threads here on 1Addicts... some guys have even upgraded to Koni Yellows later on after going with FSD's.

I think its safe to say that the FSD shocks are a lot like Bilstein's (black) "Touring" shocks. They are meant as a OE replacement shock, to give a firm euro ride. But they are in no way a sporty shock or ride. Too soft overall.

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

You can set and forget yellows. And they are very comfortable. My Bilsteins are also comfortable, just ride a bit differently (again, the Bilsteins are on my fiance's car...and she much prefers them to the OE POSs). Bilsteins give much more road feel, but soak up the big impacts better. Konis still jolt in teh big stuff, but smoothed out the small irregularities more.

Just not a fan of the FSDs when at least yellows ride so nicely.

I also concur.

Bilstein HD's or Sports(they have the same shock valving, just that Sports are designed to operate at a lower ride height) are quite stiff - when say pulling into a drive way. You know that little gap or bump when traversing the paved road onto the concrete slab. But Bilstein's have a softer ride when the road gets rough. When the shock piston see's rapid movement, it actually softens the ride. But overall its a stiff ride.

Koni's ride softer for initial shock piston compression, but get harder there after. So,, they feel hard/stiff on rough roads, and nice/ok on minor bumpy roads. There is a reason why Koni Yellows were OEM shocks for Ferrari(and they were the optional "sport shocks" for Porsche in the 90's.

I think if anyone is not sure what to get... a good person to talk to is Harold at HP Autosport Afterall it was Harold who first figured out that the M3 alloy ///M bits will bolt up to a e9x/e8x cars.

[dcaron9999]

Thanks to this thread, Im happy to learn that my 2011 135i M Sport has linear springs. So maybe they are worth keeping and matching with better dampers, to save a bit of money.

I take my 135i to lapping events frequently, and have a done a few light mods to the suspension (Ground Control Street Camber Plates, M3 front control arms, M3 rear subframe bushings, M3 rear control arms and Front Sway bar is likely next)...

On the subject of Koni Sports ('yellows"), I noticed Harry's site (HP Autowerks) has two offerings, one with several options.

• Koni Sport Strut and shock Kit E82/9X to M3 Conversion
  From the description ..."This strut and shock kit is for E82/9X to E9X M3 rear lower camber link conversion and comes with all hardware needed for installation." I assume this means that if you replaced the rear control arms on the 135i with E92/M3 ones, this kit is the proper one.
  
• Koni Sport Strut and shocks E82 E90 E92 E93 1 and 3-Series
  Im wondering if this kit will work with stock rear control arms and m3 control arms ???
  
• Koni Sport Strut and shocks E82 E90 E92 E93 1 and 3-Series (with optional TCKR rears)
  Purchase the optional TCKR external adjustable rear dampers for external rebound damping adjustments without removing the dampers from the vehicle. Even though rear adjustment accessible from inside the trunk sounds great, dont you end up with a mis-matched pair Koni front and TCKR rear dampers?

[TheSt|G]

^^^^

Spot on with a good background Dackelone.

[PrematureApex]

I won't argue that the bushings are bad. But they aren't THE (the only) source of the float.

Real shocks/struts made a monumental difference in eliminating the wallow/float/squat of the stock suspension.

I'd venture to say many people might skip the bushings on a street-driven daily driver after feeling the chassis on real shocks. Not that they should, but that they wouldn't feel the need.

You'd never hear someone say the car doesn't need shocks after swapping the bushings.

IMHO, shocks first. Especially if you're going to be paying someone to install the bushings.

[Garabins]

Thanks on all the great info guys! I honestly have been reading countless threads on this for the last few weeks, and I have been stuck between the FSDs and the yellows, and since the majority of people seem to agree that the FSDs are too soft and won’t get rid of that floaty feeling, It has changed my mind and I will definitely give the Yellows a try..+ some H&R OE springs for a slight drop. Thanks

[Dackelone]

One thing you find out... is after you install higher spring rate (lowering)springs... the next weak link is our rear subframe bushings. This is a very good article - a must read for anyone thinking of changing their car's suspension.

The Ultimate Handling Machine
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.UuldndJDuE4

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One thing you find out... is after you install higher spring rate (lowering)springs... the next weak link is our rear subframe bushings. This is a very good article - a must read for anyone thinking of changing their car's suspension.

The Ultimate Handling Machine
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.UuldndJDuE4

This article is what actually convinced me to replace my stock marshmallow rear subframe bushings first. Happy I did them last year.

"“If you put the 128i or 135i on a lift, you can make the rear subframe move an inch using only a pry bar because the bushings are so soft,” says Kline.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One thing you find out... is after you install higher spring rate (lowering)springs... the next weak link is our rear subframe bushings. This is a very good article - a must read for anyone thinking of changing their car's suspension.

The Ultimate Handling Machine
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.UuldndJDuE4

Of course, but that's a never-ending quest. There's always a next weak link. Again, it is very apparent the bushings are garbage...even inserts made a noticeable improvement (certainly $50 worth).

I think the point is, and you're going that way...it depends on what you're doing with the car. It you're moving to coilovers, or significantly higher springs rates, the bushings are going to be very apparent.

I'm just pointing out that on a daily driver on stock springs, decent shocks have made enough of a dramatic change (and I do mean dramatic) that some people may be content to skip the bushings. So that others looking to spend...well... frankly as little as possible, may very well be satisfied with the improvement shocks alone (or perhaps shocks and inserts) make.

All about your future plans for the car, how it's driven, etc.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Of course, but that's a never-ending quest. There's always a next weak link. Again, it is very apparent the bushings are garbage...even inserts made a noticeable improvement (certainly $50 worth).

I think the point is, and you're going that way...it depends on what you're doing with the car. It you're moving to coilovers, or significantly higher springs rates, the bushings are going to be very apparent.

I'm just pointing out that on a daily driver on stock springs, decent shocks have made enough of a dramatic change (and I do mean dramatic) that some people may be content to skip the bushings. So that others looking to spend...well... frankly as little as possible, may very well be satisfied with the improvement shocks alone (or perhaps shocks and inserts) make.

All about your future plans for the car, how it's driven, etc.

Thanks for this! I was looking for best bang for my buck, and hoping to hang on to my stock M sport linear springs. Now seriously considering Koni sports dampers/shocks as the next step ...

[HP Autosport]

Koni FSD is more or less an OE replacement that has slightly more damping capabilities. If you are simply looking to replace your worn out OE struts and shocks, go for it.

For sport, HPDE or track day driving I would personally go with the Yellow version for its better damping and adjustability.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Koni FSD is more or less an OE replacement that has slightly more damping capabilities. If you are simply looking to replace your worn out OE struts and shocks, go for it.

For sport, HPDE or track day driving I would personally go with the Yellow version for its better damping and adjustability.

Any general set up tips with Yellows? I know that is opening up a massive can of worms... Just thinking about my car personally, it seems like they would do well set up pretty stiff up front, and medium, to medium-soft in the rear.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One thing you find out... is after you install higher spring rate (lowering)springs... the next weak link is our rear subframe bushings. This is a very good article - a must read for anyone thinking of changing their car's suspension.

The Ultimate Handling Machine
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.UuldndJDuE4

That article, coupled with past experience, is why I have TCKs on my car.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

Any general set up tips with Yellows? I know that is opening up a massive can of worms... Just thinking about my car personally, it seems like they would do well set up pretty stiff up front, and medium, to medium-soft in the rear.

It's all a personal taste. There is not one right setting.