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      12-28-2014, 05:23 PM   #1
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Sorry, another 1m tire thread!

Hi everyone. Yes, I have read and searched for hours and still have a question. I just turned 21,000 miles and my tires are shot. I have stock rims and the car is lowered on H&R springs. Like others that have "tunes" I am looking for some more grip on the rear while maintaining great handling.

Data;
Stock front 245/35/19, 25.8, 807 rpm
Stock rear. 265/35/19, 25.3, 790 rpm
.5 height diff and 20mm stagger

Candidates for replacement;

BMW safety car set-up
Front 255/35/19, 26, 799rpm
Rear 285/30/19, 25.8, 807rpm
.2 height diff and 30mm stagger

Option 2
Front 275/30/19, 25.6, 814rpm
Rear 295/30/19, 26, 799rpm
.4 height diff and 20mm stagger
I think this would require 6 mm spacer at front

Option 3
Front 265/30/19, 25.3, 822rpm
Rear 295/30/19, 26, 799rpm
.7 height diff and 30 mm stagger

Ok, all combos are within the 3% rpm that Turner site recommends. I have no idea what the impact of height and stagger will accomplish (20mm versus 30mm) but I saw it was suggested to not go more than 30mm. I am also confused by width (what will fit with rim offset) as the michelin site had the sizes I am interested on different rim widths. I am not a track or autocross fanatic but love a spirited back road adventure.

I am targeting the Michelin Pilot Sport tires (make argument for others) as I was happy with the PS2.

Please tell me what I should go with and why.

Thank you all!!!!!!
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      12-28-2014, 07:45 PM   #2
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I have gone through a couple sets of the PSS in the OEM tire sizes without issues. I find they are a better overall tire than the PS2. Hope that helps.
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      12-29-2014, 06:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinterz88 View Post
I have gone through a couple sets of the PSS in the OEM tire sizes without issues. I find they are a better overall tire than the PS2. Hope that helps.
Thanks Splinterz ..... Missing those Philly Cheesesteaks here in NC but the BBQ is great. I'm pretty solid on the PSS just want to get the right sizing upgrade.
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      12-29-2014, 06:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator View Post
Thanks Splinterz ..... Missing those Philly Cheesesteaks here in NC but the BBQ is great. I'm pretty solid on the PSS just want to get the right sizing upgrade.
I know what you mean. My parents are in Chapel Hill, so I get the both of bost worlds. Hope it was a good move for you.
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      12-29-2014, 09:25 AM   #5
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Good Questions

I'm in the same boat. Not ready to replace yet, but curious what the best options are. I am also running stock rims and also have the H&R springs on my car. Also, like you, I'm looking for a good 'spirited' street setup.

I have also done some searching and I'm sure this has been discussed already, but things are often 'hidden' in threads that are off topic and don't come up well in searches.

I would like to consider some small spacers to get more of a flush look. Somewhere around 10mm? But I am curious about this on 2 fronts...
What width tires are best on the stock rims for a lowered car (knowing that each manufacturer will vary slightly)? And then once that is figured out, what width (if any) spacers will work?

I did find some good info in this thread for the spacers on a lowered car question, but doesn't really address the wider tire question at the same time:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=564848&page=3

Concerning the stagger...I've read that running more stagger (like the +30 that you mention) will reduce oversteer and encourage understeer...which makes sense. And as is known that our cars are rather 'tail-happy' that might be a good thing. I guess it comes down to preference? It makes sense to reason that going too far out of the OE stagger will have some bad effects on handling (like you mention >30 being bad...too much understeer) but in my searching it also seems that people who track a lot (with aftermarket wheels) like to go for a square setup. Better all around grip for auto-x?

I think I will likely be going with PSS when the time comes, but just curious what the best size is?
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      01-03-2015, 02:51 PM   #6
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Smart move is the safety car setup, I used to run h&r springs and that setup was perfect with no rubbing and the extra tire was a big improvement at near stock power levels. Otherwise option three if you're running high boost(e85, meth or bigger turbos) as once running strong you can use all the tire you can get under there, I run 305's currently.

With 275/30's in the front you'll rub in a decent amount of situations near steering lock(of course with camber plates or other mods they'll fit but that doesn't seem the case here) and 265 was adequate grip in the front to balance well with bigger rear tires especially if you've got more power.
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      01-04-2015, 07:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerMH View Post
Smart move is the safety car setup, I used to run h&r springs and that setup was perfect with no rubbing and the extra tire was a big improvement at near stock power levels. Otherwise option three if you're running high boost(e85, meth or bigger turbos) as once running strong you can use all the tire you can get under there, I run 305's currently.

With 275/30's in the front you'll rub in a decent amount of situations near steering lock(of course with camber plates or other mods they'll fit but that doesn't seem the case here) and 265 was adequate grip in the front to balance well with bigger rear tires especially if you've got more power.
Thanks Spencer ... I am having a heck of a time sourcing the PSS in 285/30/19 for the rear ....

I may end up having to go either 275/30 on the rear or 295/30 ..... I just don't have the knowledge to understand the impact of going 40mm (255 to 295) versus factory 20mm (245 to 265) stagger. I was ok with the 30mm with the 255 to 285 and can't imagine another 10mm making a big difference.

As an aside ... Saw new m4 at dealer yesterday and it had 255 to 275's on it.
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      01-05-2015, 08:10 AM   #8
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Lots more options -- including a 265/35 PSS --in 18" wheels.

I haven't tried more than a 20
mm stagger since I don't want the addt'l understeer it would introduce.

Neil
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      01-05-2015, 10:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerMH View Post
Smart move is the safety car setup, I used to run h&r springs and that setup was perfect with no rubbing and the extra tire was a big improvement at near stock power levels. Otherwise option three if you're running high boost(e85, meth or bigger turbos) as once running strong you can use all the tire you can get under there, I run 305's currently.

With 275/30's in the front you'll rub in a decent amount of situations near steering lock(of course with camber plates or other mods they'll fit but that doesn't seem the case here) and 265 was adequate grip in the front to balance well with bigger rear tires especially if you've got more power.
Thanks Spencer ... I am having a heck of a time sourcing the PSS in 285/30/19 for the rear ....

I may end up having to go either 275/30 on the rear or 295/30 ..... I just don't have the knowledge to understand the impact of going 40mm (255 to 295) versus factory 20mm (245 to 265) stagger. I was ok with the 30mm with the 255 to 285 and can't imagine another 10mm making a big difference.

As an aside ... Saw new m4 at dealer yesterday and it had 255 to 275's on it.
Stock power levels Id think 255/275 is your best bet if you're struggling to source 285's. I've run lots of setups, 265/30 and 285/30, 265/30 295/30, 255/35 295/30, and I am currently running a rather less than ideal in some ways 255/35 - 305/30 stagger that isn't that bad honestly. I don't drive my car as hard or aptly as neil Im sure but I put down very respectable lap times for a middle of the pack intermediate class driver. I love turbos and big boost, but don't like to get the tail to loose unless I mean to, which this setup seems to work relatively well for. I pulled the trigger on the huge rears because of favorably priced rear tires, $223 for 305/30 hankook rs3's and I was having a hard time finding pss's in 285 lol, figured I'd see what it was like to put down as much power as a fbo car can on e85 effectively for a few thousand miles, on the street I don't feel that crazy of a difference in the rs3's but on the track they're wonderful, they last without overheating and just grip, I can get on the power much earlier, I can get the tail out of I want with no problem at all, I actually love the feel of the giant stagger with the power i run but at near stock it'd be crazy overkill.

So my point, are you running any power mods? That may play some role in the decision but Id say 255-275 is the stagger to go with, probably always the right choice to keep tire weight down and the stagger similar to stick, but if you're running an aggressive tune and making big power, flip a coin, you'll be happy with either.
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      01-06-2015, 07:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
Lots more options -- including a 265/35 PSS --in 18" wheels.

I haven't tried more than a 20
mm stagger since I don't want the addt'l understeer it would introduce.

Neil
Hey Neil, Hope you are great .... I'm using the stock 9" front and 10" rear 19" rims .... Agree on the under steer!

Happy New Year and look to see you in the "news" again . one lap?
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      01-06-2015, 07:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerMH View Post
Stock power levels Id think 255/275 is your best bet if you're struggling to source 285's. I've run lots of setups, 265/30 and 285/30, 265/30 295/30, 255/35 295/30, and I am currently running a rather less than ideal in some ways 255/35 - 305/30 stagger that isn't that bad honestly. I don't drive my car as hard or aptly as neil Im sure but I put down very respectable lap times for a middle of the pack intermediate class driver. I love turbos and big boost, but don't like to get the tail to loose unless I mean to, which this setup seems to work relatively well for. I pulled the trigger on the huge rears because of favorably priced rear tires, $223 for 305/30 hankook rs3's and I was having a hard time finding pss's in 285 lol, figured I'd see what it was like to put down as much power as a fbo car can on e85 effectively for a few thousand miles, on the street I don't feel that crazy of a difference in the rs3's but on the track they're wonderful, they last without overheating and just grip, I can get on the power much earlier, I can get the tail out of I want with no problem at all, I actually love the feel of the giant stagger with the power i run but at near stock it'd be crazy overkill.

So my point, are you running any power mods? That may play some role in the decision but Id say 255-275 is the stagger to go with, probably always the right choice to keep tire weight down and the stagger similar to stick, but if you're running an aggressive tune and making big power, flip a coin, you'll be happy with either.

Spencer, thanks for your comprehensive reply. I have H&R springs so the car is a little lower. I have CAi, Wagner inter cooler, mad dad, charge pipe upgrades running stage II Cobb ( getting fine tune soon). We do not have e85 where I am in NC. I do have traction issues with added power and wanted more rear rubber but did not want huge stagger issues. So, I am interested to know if the 265's fit ok of your car - stock wheels, stock springs? I would be ok with the 30mm stagger .... Thanks!
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      01-06-2015, 08:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator View Post
Hey Neil, Hope you are great .... I'm using the stock 9" front and 10" rear 19" rims .... Agree on the under steer!

Happy New Year and look to see you in the "news" again . one lap?
Yep, already preparing for the track season, including the One Lap (with a very quick co-driver).

Don't yet have the final tune, but my car now has the MOTIV 750 single turbo kit (plus related bells and whistles).

Should be even more of a beast!

Neil
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      01-06-2015, 08:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator View Post
Hey Neil, Hope you are great .... I'm using the stock 9" front and 10" rear 19" rims .... Agree on the under steer!

Happy New Year and look to see you in the "news" again . one lap?
Yep, already preparing for the track season, including the One Lap (with a very quick co-driver).

Don't yet have the final tune, but my car now has the MOTIV 750 single turbo kit (plus related bells and whistles).

Should be even more of a beast!

Neil
Must be outrageous with that turbo, out of curiosity, how much boost do you run or more importantly, how much power would say you put out when on the track? You clearly know what you're doing and I am curious if having much higher power levels on tap is helpful with such a short wheelbase or you keep it pretty low boost on track? I turn mike down on the track but to avoid any reliability issues and it's power isn't my bottle neck.
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      01-06-2015, 08:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerMH View Post
Stock power levels Id think 255/275 is your best bet if you're struggling to source 285's. I've run lots of setups, 265/30 and 285/30, 265/30 295/30, 255/35 295/30, and I am currently running a rather less than ideal in some ways 255/35 - 305/30 stagger that isn't that bad honestly. I don't drive my car as hard or aptly as neil Im sure but I put down very respectable lap times for a middle of the pack intermediate class driver. I love turbos and big boost, but don't like to get the tail to loose unless I mean to, which this setup seems to work relatively well for. I pulled the trigger on the huge rears because of favorably priced rear tires, $223 for 305/30 hankook rs3's and I was having a hard time finding pss's in 285 lol, figured I'd see what it was like to put down as much power as a fbo car can on e85 effectively for a few thousand miles, on the street I don't feel that crazy of a difference in the rs3's but on the track they're wonderful, they last without overheating and just grip, I can get on the power much earlier, I can get the tail out of I want with no problem at all, I actually love the feel of the giant stagger with the power i run but at near stock it'd be crazy overkill.

So my point, are you running any power mods? That may play some role in the decision but Id say 255-275 is the stagger to go with, probably always the right choice to keep tire weight down and the stagger similar to stick, but if you're running an aggressive tune and making big power, flip a coin, you'll be happy with either.

Spencer, thanks for your comprehensive reply. I have H&R springs so the car is a little lower. I have CAi, Wagner inter cooler, mad dad, charge pipe upgrades running stage II Cobb ( getting fine tune soon). We do not have e85 where I am in NC. I do have traction issues with added power and wanted more rear rubber but did not want huge stagger issues. So, I am interested to know if the 265's fit ok of your car - stock wheels, stock springs? I would be ok with the 30mm stagger .... Thanks!
I ran the 265/30-295/30 stagger on h&r springs, I was very happy with it, and a stage 2 Cobb will certainly keep your stock sized tires busy. I'll defer to neil and BMW and say staying with the 20mm stagger/safety car setup is the wise choice, I always look at tire weight when I'm about to buy my huge tires and think I'm making the foolish choice but I have gone big since I first got the car and loved all of them especially the 265-295 setup, my favorite thus far. I really overwork the 245s and 255's I've tried up front on track(2 hpde's and the pss's were completely cooked) and it felt better with 265's on twisty roads as well.

With the h&r springs and 265/30's up front I had very slight rubbing when at lock with 3-4 people in the car or in odd situations, after a few months that slight rubbing disappeared completely from the wheel wells wearing a bit but nothing that damaged them, just two or three places that the tires slightly rubbed wearing halfway through the plastic. I personally didn't mind it but there may be very slight rubbing in tight parking situations and of course each car settles a little differently but that's going to be the next set I put on, 265/30-295/30 PSS or rs3's.
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      01-06-2015, 09:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
Yep, already preparing for the track season, including the One Lap (with a very quick co-driver).

Don't yet have the final tune, but my car now has the MOTIV 750 single turbo kit (plus related bells and whistles).

Should be even more of a beast!

Neil
Neil, look forward to seeing your progress with the Motiv 750. My son in Florida who has a 2007 335i just put single turbo on his car and is making silly power with the e85 . Also, let us know when you get down to VIR .... Stay well Neil. Have fun!
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      01-06-2015, 10:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerMH View Post
I ran the 265/30-295/30 stagger on h&r springs, I was very happy with it, and a stage 2 Cobb will certainly keep your stock sized tires busy. I'll defer to neil and BMW and say staying with the 20mm stagger/safety car setup is the wise choice, I always look at tire weight when I'm about to buy my huge tires and think I'm making the foolish choice but I have gone big since I first got the car and loved all of them especially the 265-295 setup, my favorite thus far. I really overwork the 245s and 255's I've tried up front on track(2 hpde's and the pss's were completely cooked) and it felt better with 265's on twisty roads as well.

With the h&r springs and 265/30's up front I had very slight rubbing when at lock with 3-4 people in the car or in odd situations, after a few months that slight rubbing disappeared completely from the wheel wells wearing a bit but nothing that damaged them, just two or three places that the tires slightly rubbed wearing halfway through the plastic. I personally didn't mind it but there may be very slight rubbing in tight parking situations and of course each car settles a little differently but that's going to be the next set I put on, 265/30-295/30 PSS or rs3's.
Spencer, just curious, were you running the revised wheel well liners when you experienced this rubbing? And anything that you think spacers would help/hurt? Thanks.
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      01-07-2015, 08:53 AM   #17
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SpencerMH - I've been tempted to try 265/295 and now have more reason to do so.

And, if I did, it is likely that much of the added understeer could be dialed-out with shocks/sways.

Too much power on track? First, I'm past the point of rationality when it comes to modding Second, I'm planning to run pretty low boost (~23 psi).

The additional power will, undoubtedly, be a lot of fun but it's also important to me that the system itself will be far more robust that any stock-based turbo.

Previously I was around 420-430 whp on 93 pump and I expect to be 500 or so with the MOTIV. I am planning to retain mid-pipe cats.

And I suspect one of the biggest differences is that I'll now have another useful 1,000 rpm to play with on track, as it will now pull right up to redline.

Neil
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      01-10-2015, 10:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
SpencerMH - I've been tempted to try 265/295 and now have more reason to do so.

And, if I did, it is likely that much of the added understeer could be dialed-out with shocks/sways.

Too much power on track? First, I'm past the point of rationality when it comes to modding Second, I'm planning to run pretty low boost (~23 psi).

The additional power will, undoubtedly, be a lot of fun but it's also important to me that the system itself will be far more robust that any stock-based turbo.

Previously I was around 420-430 whp on 93 pump and I expect to be 500 or so with the MOTIV. I am planning to retain mid-pipe cats.



And I suspect one of the biggest differences is that I'll now have another useful 1,000 rpm to play with on track, as it will now pull right up to redline.

Neil
Ok gang, I ordered the 265/30 and 295/30 combo - should be here next week ... Will post up new shoes!
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      01-11-2015, 09:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM3 View Post
Spencer, just curious, were you running the revised wheel well liners when you experienced this rubbing? And anything that you think spacers would help/hurt? Thanks.
I wasn't running the revised liners, my dealership flat out denied they existed fro sometime, they deny a bulletin nor an issue and when i printed out the information available here to substantiate that they are a revised design they said they can't replace mine as i had modified the car by running larger tires. I hate my dealer, i finally found a good service advisor that works with me but other than electornics in the car, i'm not shedding too many tears about just hitting 50k miles and being out of warranty, i just worry of the nav system dying, window motor issues or anything trivial like that where I could lose my shirt repairing it out of pocket. I imagine that with the revised liners 265/30(Michelin PSS, tire shapes vary greatly) would be no issue at all with H&R springs unless the car was really loaded with weight.
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      01-11-2015, 09:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
SpencerMH - I've been tempted to try 265/295 and now have more reason to do so.

And, if I did, it is likely that much of the added understeer could be dialed-out with shocks/sways.

Too much power on track? First, I'm past the point of rationality when it comes to modding Second, I'm planning to run pretty low boost (~23 psi).

The additional power will, undoubtedly, be a lot of fun but it's also important to me that the system itself will be far more robust that any stock-based turbo.

Previously I was around 420-430 whp on 93 pump and I expect to be 500 or so with the MOTIV. I am planning to retain mid-pipe cats.

And I suspect one of the biggest differences is that I'll now have another useful 1,000 rpm to play with on track, as it will now pull right up to redline.

Neil
I hear you on modding and i wouldn't hesitate to go 30mm stagger, I am sure that you're in a different universe than I but I love the 265/295 setup, it really allows you to modulate how quickly the rear comes out, it won't as much on its own when putting on partial throttle but anywhere near wot and you can't put enough tire back there with the torque surge, and it has been somewhat easy to modulate. On medium to high speed turns you can really control it, its just a bit abrupt in breaking loose at low speeds because you have to put a fair amount of power into it to break them free but I really liked it and i felt validated when the Dinan RS3 had the same stagger and was raved about.

I can see how the bigger turbo could help in that respect, the n54's powerband is wonderful on the street as you get into the power in so many circumstances, the torque is just always a mash of the foot away, but on track it really is apparent that turbos can't push anymore after 6,000 and I can't imagin the speed i could get up on the straights if i was ringing it our productively to 7k rpm's. Should be a riot there and I'm curious if you feel it a reasonable upgrade on the street or over the top adding significant lag to the equation.

I hope to keep the car forever and daily something else and if i do i was assuming i'd put RB turbos in when mine begin to wear but I love the idea of going to a manifold design with a mainstream outlet to get better, high end, turbo options.
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      01-11-2015, 09:46 PM   #21
SpencerMH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator View Post
Ok gang, I ordered the 265/30 and 295/30 combo - should be here next week ... Will post up new shoes!
Congrats, i think you'll love it, the car is just glued to the road, so sure footed its wild and i didn't experience any pronounced tram lining, i was just thrilled. Let us know what you think?
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      01-13-2015, 02:57 PM   #22
M3 Adjuster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mGator View Post
Ok gang, I ordered the 265/30 and 295/30 combo - should be here next week ... Will post up new shoes!
sounds like that's the best combo... subscribed for photos!


see the following post from another similar thread with good results from PSS 265/35/19 F and 285/35/19 rear on stock wheels.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=23




My personal rules for fitting tires to the 1M and F80 M3/M4 etc


1- Put as wide a tire as you can fit in the front.
2- Put as wide a tire as you can afford in the rear.
3- If you need to TURN , try not to exceed stagger of 30mm as you will induce even more understeer.
If you are looking for traction at the rear (ie. more important than the ability to turn ) even with just a stock tune, one must realize that you won't find grip until you go to a 285 section or wider at the rear.

For #1 above.. for a street tire.. realistically a 265/30/ 19 up front is about as wide as possible but will have some amount of rubbing. On a completely stock car.. the rubbing is minimal over certain bumps and turning when parking. 255 should fit with little to no issue.

For autocross, my favorite setup so far is 285/30/18 front and 315/30/18 rear... but that required wheels wider than 10" at the rear, and it did make the car more of a point and shoot (due to more understeer) than running 285/30/18 square. No problems getting the power down though!

in my opinion, the M4/M3.. with more torque than the 1M.. is **way** under tired at 255/275

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 01-13-2015 at 03:18 PM..
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