Bilstein B12 Prokit + Dinan camber plates installed

[titium]

Originally Posted by Mandinca

Wonder if you can help me with a problem I'm having.
I just installed BMW PS and style 264's on my E88. Tires are 235/40/18.
When the steering is straight the tires are tucked under the fenders, when I turn there is about 3/4" of clearance between the tire and the fender lip which results in fender lip rubbing when turning and hitting bumps. They don't rub over bumps in a straight line.
Front camber pins are knocked out (Lemfoerder mounts) and I just had an alignment done, spec sheet states fronts are both set at -1.1 camber.

I see a couple of options.

1) Camber plates as you have done to get additional clearance.
2) Get a lower profile front tire, maybe a 35 ?

I would honestly rather not add negative camber and trash my tires, it's a daily driver that's fun to drive with good looks, not a track car, so I'm not looking for great handling, just fun. However, I can't deal with the rubbing in the turns over bumps.

Questions - is it possible to put camber plates in that will give me extra clearance without getting extended bolts in the strut mounts ? Ie, can I just unbolt the three nuts, lower the strut, slip the plate in then bolt it back up again without having to take it all apart or even remove the assembly from the knuckle ?
Or, do you think that a 35 profile will be enough difference that I will gain sufficient clearance when turning that it won't rub. It's really hard to say how hard it's hitting or if it's "only just catching it" so I guess I'm asking a question that's impossible for you to answer.

Any other suggestions ?

I have some 17's with tires on them that will give me a diameter that is overall almost the same as an 18 with a 35 profile so I'm going to run those on the front for a day or two to see if they rub. If they don't, I guess I have my answer.

The 264's came standard on some versions of the E88 so I know they must work, but that was on stock suspension with 215/40/18's, the BMW PS is a bit lower and that width and profile makes their overall diameter smaller as well.

I'm already about $1500 into this - can't just chase the solution, need an answer rather than throwing money at it.

Any suggestions ?

Are you running a 235 tyre on a 7.5" wheel?

You can run around -2-to -2.2deg of camber with no adverse effects on tyre wear (assuming other parameters are set correctly). handling really benefits from the extra camber as well.

Dinan camber plates and m3 control arms will get you there.

[Mandinca]

Originally Posted by titium

Are you running a 235 tyre on a 7.5" wheel?

You can run around -2-to -2.2deg of camber with no adverse effects on tyre wear (assuming other parameters are set correctly). handling really benefits from the extra camber as well.

Dinan camber plates and m3 control arms will get you there.

Thanks, yes, 235/40 on a 7.5" wheel. It really only rubs when I turn and go over bumps while in the turn. Straight line there's plenty of clearance between the fender and the tire.I was thinking going to a 35 profile would help, would adding a degree of negative camber make that much of a difference to my problem ?
As for camber plates, what's involved ? Do I need to remove the top mounts and bearing (compress the spring etc) to put the camber plates on or can I just unbolt from the car, drop the suspension away from the mounting point and put the plates on. I figure that the bolts won't be long enough now with the extra thickness from the camber plate. Newbie..... ;-)

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Mandinca

Thanks, yes, 235/40 on a 7.5" wheel. It really only rubs when I turn and go over bumps while in the turn. Straight line there's plenty of clearance between the fender and the tire.I was thinking going to a 35 profile would help, would adding a degree of negative camber make that much of a difference to my problem ?
As for camber plates, what's involved ? Do I need to remove the top mounts and bearing (compress the spring etc) to put the camber plates on or can I just unbolt from the car, drop the suspension away from the mounting point and put the plates on. I figure that the bolts won't be long enough now with the extra thickness from the camber plate. Newbie..... ;-)

The Dinan plates are easy pie to install. You loosen the lower control arm bolts, and drop the strut out of its mount. Then, you punch out the studs on the top mount (pliers work, too), place the Dinan plate on top, put the countersunk bolts down through the top of the plate, install the lock nuts, tighten them down, put the strut back in, snug-up the control arms. Lastly, settle the front suspension and torque everything down.

They also come with an instruction manual, but those are overrated.

I love mine, they really made the front end of the car much more effective than before.

[Mandinca]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

The Dinan plates are easy pie to install. You loosen the lower control arm bolts, and drop the strut out of its mount. Then, you punch out the studs on the top mount (pliers work, too), place the Dinan plate on top, put the countersunk bolts down through the top of the plate, install the lock nuts, tighten them down, put the strut back in, snug-up the control arms. Lastly, settle the front suspension and torque everything down.

They also come with an instruction manual, but those are overrated.

I love mine, they really made the front end of the car much more effective than before.

Ahhh, now I see how they attach. Thanks Chris. Seems easy enough.
Question is, will they "lift" the car enough for my problem to be solved. Can you remember how thick the plates are ?

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Mandinca

Ahhh, now I see how they attach. Thanks Chris. Seems easy enough.
Question is, will they "lift" the car enough for my problem to be solved. Can you remember how thick the plates are ?

IIRC, they were a bit under a quarter inch in thickness. Perfect for me since they stopped me slightly rubbing in my driveway.

[Mandinca]

Thanks, probably not enough for what I need. However, after a lot of searching I found a post in another forum where someone had a similar issue and it was suggested that they loosen the pinch bolt and slip the strut out of the knuckle slightly then tighten the pinch bolt back up. I had thought of this but think it would screw up my alignment.

[titium]

Originally Posted by Mandinca

Thanks, yes, 235/40 on a 7.5" wheel. It really only rubs when I turn and go over bumps while in the turn. Straight line there's plenty of clearance between the fender and the tire.I was thinking going to a 35 profile would help, would adding a degree of negative camber make that much of a difference to my problem ?
As for camber plates, what's involved ? Do I need to remove the top mounts and bearing (compress the spring etc) to put the camber plates on or can I just unbolt from the car, drop the suspension away from the mounting point and put the plates on. I figure that the bolts won't be long enough now with the extra thickness from the camber plate. Newbie..... ;-)

drop to a 225 tyre. 235 isn't ideal for a 7.5" rim really needs a 8" rim.

the profile is a percentage of the width so dropping to a 225 will also lower the profile height (even though they're both 40 profile).

[Mandinca]

Originally Posted by titium

drop to a 225 tyre. 235 isn't ideal for a 7.5" rim really needs a 8" rim.

the profile is a percentage of the width so dropping to a 225 will also lower the profile height (even though they're both 40 profile).

Exactly what I was thinking. A 225/40 only gains 4mm but a 235/35 gains 11mm. A 225/35 gains 15mm

Ie-
235x40% = 94mm (current tire)
235x35% = 83mm
225x40% = 90mm
225x35% = 79mm

I don't think 225x40 is going to be enough (4mm) so it looks like the 235x35 would give enough clearance (11mm) but not be an ideal width. 225x35 might look too small.
Dunno. Food for thought.

Thanks.

[Mountain135]

Very interesting thread. I have 14k miles on my B12 kit and the low front clearance is an issue. Additionally, the ride seems to have gotten really firm. So much so that I'm considering something else maybe even going back to OEM. Do you guys have thoughts on this?

Thanks,

John

[xQx]

Originally Posted by Mountain135

Very interesting thread. I have 14k miles on my B12 kit and the low front clearance is an issue. Additionally, the ride seems to have gotten really firm. So much so that I'm considering something else maybe even going back to OEM. Do you guys have thoughts on this?

Thanks,

John

Thanks. You've just made my decision for me.

I've been tossing up getting B8's with my stock m-sport springs, or go the B12's. If you read back on this thread, you'll see vtl (the original poster) ended up getting sick of the low clearance and went with full coilovers.

My E88 on m-sport springs scrapes the front as it is; so I'm worried about going any lower... If you go to the e90 forums, you'll find people saying exactly the same thing as you - the prokit springs are too low and too harsh... I was kinda writing it off as soft 3-series owners who wish they'd got an M5

Anyway, I don't have first hand experience, but I can say you're not alone; and I'll be joining the "man, that car would look sweet if it were an inch lower, in some ways I wish I'd got those cut springs" club instead (I'm sticking with the stock m-sport springs).

[PseudoPsam]

VTL, your thread was a huge help with my B12/Dinan camber plate install -- thanks!

I was able to hit -2.2 camber up front with just the plates and stock control arms.
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I'd like to echo what other posters have mentioned: the B12's Eibach Pro-Kit springs are too low.

It's been about a month and springs have settled, and while I don't have issues rubbing yet, the appearance is simply too low for my taste. I installed the Dinan camber plates up front, and without that extra 5mm I'd be even more unhappy. I also think the lowered height would look extra silly on stock wheels. I don't find the ride to be harsh, so at least there's that.

I'm thinking about going back to stock M-Sport springs, though I'd be losing about 28 ft/lbs in front and 100 ft/lbs of spring in the rear by going back to the 2012+ (rear) progressive spring. Anyone done this with the Bilstein B8 struts/shocks?

[kaputt]

Originally Posted by PseudoPsam

VTL, your thread was a huge help with my B12/Dinan camber plate install -- thanks!

I was able to hit -2.2 camber up front with just the plates and stock control arms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to echo what other posters have mentioned: the B12's Eibach Pro-Kit springs are too low.

It's been about a month and springs have settled, and while I don't have issues rubbing yet, the appearance is simply too low for my taste. I installed the Dinan camber plates up front, and without that extra 5mm I'd be even more unhappy. I also think the lowered height would look extra silly on stock wheels. I don't find the ride to be harsh, so at least there's that.

I'm thinking about going back to stock M-Sport springs, though I'd be losing about 28 ft/lbs in front and 100 ft/lbs of spring in the rear by going back to the 2012+ (rear) progressive spring. Anyone done this with the Bilstein B8 struts/shocks?

I would suggest getting a set of BMW Performance Springs instead of going back to the M Sport ones. More conservative drop than the Pro-kit springs and will likely pair better with the B8's you have as part of the B12 kit.

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by PseudoPsam

VTL, your thread was a huge help with my B12/Dinan camber plate install -- thanks!

I was able to hit -2.2 camber up front with just the plates and stock control arms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to echo what other posters have mentioned: the B12's Eibach Pro-Kit springs are too low.

It's been about a month and springs have settled, and while I don't have issues rubbing yet, the appearance is simply too low for my taste. I installed the Dinan camber plates up front, and without that extra 5mm I'd be even more unhappy. I also think the lowered height would look extra silly on stock wheels. I don't find the ride to be harsh, so at least there's that.

I'm thinking about going back to stock M-Sport springs, though I'd be losing about 28 ft/lbs in front and 100 ft/lbs of spring in the rear by going back to the 2012+ (rear) progressive spring. Anyone done this with the Bilstein B8 struts/shocks?

Good to hear you were able to install with no issues. On the ride height comment, it's subject of course, I don't find it too low but I do agree the front would be too low without the Dinan camber plates. I find I have almost a 2 finger gap in the rear, and about the same/slightly less in the front which to me is perfect. My suspension is now almost 100K kms old and hasn't sagged or gotten lower.

As for alternates, people have run the M-sport springs with both B8 & B6, as well as the BMW Performance springs. Those are about 10mm lower than M-sport and about 5mm higher than the B12 Eibachs. So maybe those would be a good fit for you if you find it too low.

As for your stock wheels comment - one thing that makes it "look" better is a spacer, if you are running stock tire sizes a 10mm spacer front and rear (you can probably get away with a 15mm front because of your camber) will help "fill out" the wheel arches and make the car look less "dumped" ..... I will post a pic of my exact setup and you'll see it's certainly not slammed!

[PseudoPsam]

Originally Posted by kaputt

I would suggest getting a set of BMW Performance Springs instead of going back to the M Sport ones. More conservative drop than the Pro-kit springs and will likely pair better with the B8's you have as part of the B12 kit.

I hear ya, and that's certainly an option, but I don't know if it's worth $400+, or more realistically $250 if I could sell the Eibachs. How different from stock M-Sport is the ride height IRL for Performance springs?

BTW, regarding B6 vs B8 for M-Sport springs, I read in another thread Bilstein directly recommended B8 to another forum user. I haven't reached out to them yet myself.
----------------------

asbrr: Good call. Ride height appearance is absolutely subjective, and glad to know yours hasn't dropped any further, but I guess I was just a fan of stock ride height. I don't think 5mm is worth the time and money for Performance springs.

I mentioned the stock wheel thing because I have/had Apex EC-7 in the typical staggered setup with offsets that push out a bit more than stockers. I'd love to see yours with the spacer setup!

[kaputt]

Originally Posted by PseudoPsam

I hear ya, and that's certainly an option, but I don't know if it's worth $400+, or more realistically $250 if I could sell the Eibachs. How different from stock M-Sport is the ride height IRL for Performance springs?

BTW, regarding B6 vs B8 for M-Sport springs, I read in another thread Bilstein directly recommended B8 to another forum user. I haven't reached out to them yet myself.

BMW advertised a 10mm drop from M Sport with the PS and I would say that's accurate (I have the full performance suspension). You can tell its lower but its honestly the perfect ride height, IMO.

Bilstein has unfortunately not been very clear on what springs pair with what and has given conflicting info over the years. I think the current consensus is that Performance Springs will work with the B8, and the M Sport Springs fall into a middle ground of either B6 or B8.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by kaputt

BMW advertised a 10mm drop from M Sport with the PS and I would say that's accurate (I have the full performance suspension). You can tell its lower but its honestly the perfect ride height, IMO.

Bilstein has unfortunately not been very clear on what springs pair with what and has given conflicting info over the years. I think the current consensus is that Performance Springs will work with the B8, and the M Sport Springs fall into a middle ground of either B6 or B8.

I had the B8s with the BMWP springs and everything fit fine, but there was a member from a while back who said he had a conversation with Bilstein and they said "to use B6s with coils that drop 30mm or less and B8s with coils that drop greater than 30mm."

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=17770914

The confusion continues. lol

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I had the B8s with the BMWP springs and everything fit fine, but there was a member from a while back who said he had a conversation with Bilstein and they said "to use B6s with coils that drop 30mm or less and B8s with coils that drop greater than 30mm."

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=17770914

The confusion continues. lol

Koni's with the right bumpstops and the confusion ends.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by gjm120

Koni's with the right bumpstops and the confusion ends.

Unless a person has their mind set on Bilsteins. Didn't love mine, as I've said before here. If I had to do it over with what I know now I might've gone with the Konis instead.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Unless a person has mind their mind set on Bilsteins. Didn't love mine, as I've said before here. If I had to do it over with what I know now I might've gone with the Konis instead.

I'd like to try Bilstein's just to compare. The B6 - B8 question mark was only about 1/3 of why I went Koni's. Other reasons - got a very good price and I like the idea of being able to adjust. I've tweaked the fronts about 4 times (very easy to do) and the rears twice since installation.

[hunginator]

I just went with Bilstein B4 Sports paired with my M-Sport springs (stock on 135i) and I couldn't be any happier. Rides like what I remember it when it was new... Those of you who are thinking of refreshing the dampers for a daily driver, I'd encourage you to consider the B4's. I do not believe that they get enough love here.

I truly believe that the B6 & B8's would be too rough for daily driver duty... and throw in the confusion of what springs to pair them with!

[1KRNRRNG1]

Originally Posted by vtl

For an extra 9mm of stack height you will want at least 9mm of extra length on the bolts. I used M6 countersunk high tensile bolts with a 17.5mm length: M6x17.5mm

Ultimately I ended up removing the Bilsteins and installing KW V2 coilovers. I would not waste time adding spacer plates on the Bilsteins since the reduced shock travel means you are constantly on the bump stops and ruins the ride quality of the car.

This was such a cool setup, and I've always been a fan of the cup kits from Bilstein for decades with the inverted Mono Tubes! I have just purchased a "new to me car" and the previous owner has buggered the suspension setup, using Koni Orange (not to be used with lowering springs) paired to Sprint R (progressive) springs that seem to have collapsed, further and there is almost no visible tire both front and back. There is almost not rear travel, and at rebound, the car throws the occupants into the air.
Dangerous, and less than desirable.
I was hoping that that this was going to be the solution!

[1KRNRRNG1]

Originally Posted by Mountain135

Very interesting thread. I have 14k miles on my B12 kit and the low front clearance is an issue. Additionally, the ride seems to have gotten really firm. So much so that I'm considering something else maybe even going back to OEM. Do you guys have thoughts on this?

Thanks,

John

I wonder if this is a case, where selecting a B6/B8 damper, and pairing it to a taller overall height (longer) linear rate, SWIFT Spring with a similar rate is the "money" setup? Is anyone aware of a setup that has been successful and not too low after "break in"?