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      07-14-2022, 07:43 PM   #1
Kromans1
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Reliability reputation - has it improved?

So the few people we've told we're seriously considering buying our very first BMW (the 2023 X1) have all said somewhat negative things alluding to BMW's reputation for being unreliable in the long term, and expensive to repair even the little things.

My question is, is this reputation still deserved, or has BMW made strides in putting that notion to rest?
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      07-14-2022, 08:19 PM   #2
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I have owned BMW's since 1976 starting with a new 2002 - the reliability was poor until the 90's, but improved after that with the 525i; in my experience, it has been steadily going downhill since about 2010 and the cost of maintenance going up significantly at the same time - I currently have a 2013 X5 which I continue to hang on to because of the poor reliability of a new 2021 X5 that I experienced - the handling is why you should buy a BMW, not for the reliability and be prepared for very high maintenance costs.

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      07-15-2022, 02:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Kromans1 View Post
So the few people we've told we're seriously considering buying our very first BMW (the 2023 X1) have all said somewhat negative things alluding to BMW's reputation for being unreliable in the long term, and expensive to repair even the little things.

My question is, is this reputation still deserved, or has BMW made strides in putting that notion to rest?
CR rates them number three overall, that's pretty positive: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/c...-car-rankings/ Make sure it has a good three year warranty and you'll be fine. Dealer is stupid-expensive, but independent mechanics are probably the same as those that specialize on Japanese cars. Get one and enjoy it!
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      07-15-2022, 03:14 AM   #4
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Hey Kromans1! You mentioned discussing your purchase with a few people already, just out of curiosity, what cars do they drive?

While some people might be trying to give genuine advice, theres always the jealous batch to take into consideration as well.

Right now, its a pretty bad time to buy a car overall with the current market, but its like that for all brands not just BMW. But to answer your question, yes, fixing a BMW headlight will cost more than one on a Honda etc..

With that said, Ive leased my last 2 cars and Ive only been to the dealerships for standard maintenance. No issues on either car.

I'm not sure how long you're planning to keep it, but assuming its covered under warranty I'd imagine you would be okay.

You can check 2021 JD Dependability ratings and BMW actually scores pretty well. Additionally, Toyota uses BMW's B58 engine in their supra. I dont think they would consider doing so if the engine was known for being unreliable.

Getting your first BMW is a special experience! Get in one, test drive it if you haven't. If you really enjoy it, and if the numbers check out for your situation, you probably have your answer.
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      07-15-2022, 06:58 AM   #5
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Thank you all for your advice. One person we told loves German cars, but can't have one right now because his wife said no, and the other was our GM salesman, from whom we ordered a 2023 Buick Envision that we will probably cancel if the X1 numbers work out. (Will they just release the goddamn US pricing guide already, my god!)
So yes, these people have at least some reason why they would not be enthused...
The GM guy even called it "BM-Trouble U" which I thought was cute and worrisome. But I did consider the source.
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      07-15-2022, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromans1 View Post
Thank you all for your advice. One person we told loves German cars, but can't have one right now because his wife said no, and the other was our GM salesman, from whom we ordered a 2023 Buick Envision that we will probably cancel if the X1 numbers work out. (Will they just release the goddamn US pricing guide already, my god!)
So yes, these people have at least some reason why they would not be enthused...
The GM guy even called it "BM-Trouble U" which I thought was cute and worrisome. But I did consider the source.
had 15' Enclave and 17' Envision and since 19' X3 current 22' X5 uhh your GM guy been sipping the Kool-aid \ the petty issues with GM vs zero with BMW. infotainment and connection issues on the Buicks was constant, slow or complete failure as I can't count how many times while driving the Nav and infotainment would crash and be dead or frozen for 90sec. Had a crackle in the Bose on both and the fix was software to just mute the causing frequency, I suspect. Buick is a great car but getting a BMW is imo especially long term the way to go.
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      07-15-2022, 07:59 AM   #7
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Of course a GM dealer is going to tell you BMWs aren't reliable...

I've had 9 new BMWs since 2001. I had an issue early on with my 2010 X6 50i, and recently had issues with my 2022 X6 M. The others were pretty much trouble free. I can't talk to long term ownership however as I lease them and they go back at about 36K miles.

Good luck.
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      07-15-2022, 09:00 AM   #8
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I will say - this depends on the owner too. I just clocked 140K on my X5 and JUST got it back from it's first ever BMW dealer visit. With a few simple tool and software purchases, you can easily do a lot of things yourself.

Yes - if you take your car (any car) to the dealer for EVERYTHING - it is going to be expensive. Doubly so with a BMW. But if you can do oil, brake, shocks, etc yourself - the cost of ownership goes WAY down. They are also pretty easy to work on in my experience.

But I agree - if you buy a new car and take it to the dealer for everything - your cost of ownership for a BWM is high. i will say - the level of service I got from my "local" BMW deal was outstanding. Video updates texted to me to show me what they were doing. No pressure about anything. Service Rep kept me updated perfectly. While the bill hurt, the service was exceptional.
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      07-15-2022, 09:14 AM   #9
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Based on my experience, BMWs are quite reliable. However, dealer service costs are generally quite high for routine maintenance and repairs. BMW covers all these items for 3yrs/ 36k miles, and after that its usually better to go to an independent repair shop. It’s also preferable to bring it to a mechanic that specializes in BMWs because having the correct tools makes the repair easier and you usually get better results.

BMW (and other dealers) often take the high road for repairs so they don’t get anyone bringing the car back because of a poor repair. For example, I had my front brakes replaced by the dealer and their policy was to replace both brake pads and rotors. This provided a quality repair, but it certainly cost more in parts, and I paid dealer mechanic labor rate.
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      07-15-2022, 09:18 AM   #10
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I think the bad rap BMW gets has a couple causes-

1) People who can't afford the car new pick them up cheap off lease and are surprised about maintenance costs of the car. They slack on getting things done on time and ignore small stuff.

2) They aren't as tolerant of poor maintenance. That compounds #1 above.

3) Dealer labor and parts are expensive, so even if it's breaking at the same rate as another car its perceived as being worse.

So I guess the answer is probably depends a lot, and if you're primarily worried about shop time or cost.
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      07-15-2022, 09:22 AM   #11
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My wife has a 2019 Countryman, which is basically an X1. They only come with 3 year warranty. 3 weeks past warranty, the sunroof motor went poof. $1500 fix (Canadian). $200 diagnosis, $800 for the motor, $300 labor + taxes.
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      07-15-2022, 12:09 PM   #12
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My 2013 135i bought new has been pretty reliable. Water pump was replaced proactively. Had the infamous oil filter housing gasket issue and oil sender unit. Other than those things, not much. Car has just over 100k miles right now.

With regards to the GM sales guy, all I can do is shake my head. The number one thing you can do to turn off a customer and decrease your credibility is to bath mouth a competitor. Being in sales for a few years, I never approach a customer saying X is bad and my product is much better.
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      07-15-2022, 12:17 PM   #13
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I'll add my 2 cents. My newest BMW is a 2008 with 116,000 on it. My oldest is a 1997 with 195,000 miles on it. I also have a 2006 with 417,000 on it. I can't speak for a 2023 BMW. But what I can tell you is I've had 5 BMWs in total, with 3 still in my fleet. Accumulating all five cars operating life, it's been just over 32 years and 1,118,000 chassis miles, with 995,000 miles driven by my wife (220,000) and mostly me (775,000); two of the cars I bought used, one had 23,000 and the other had 100,000 on it. The 25 year old we took out West on a 2-week road trip in 2017 when it had 177,000 on the clock.

Out of all those miles, I've had to call a tow truck just twice. I'd recommend a BMW to anyone for longevity. Yup, they need preventative maintenance just like a Toyota does, and yup some things break. But even at super high miles a BMW still looks good, drives great (when maintained), and drives better than anything currently available.

Toyota and Hondas at high ages and high miles become hand-me-downs for college kids. BMWs remain classic and cool.
Wow, what a track record you have, it's inspiring really. Thank you for your insight.
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      07-15-2022, 04:36 PM   #14
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I test-drove a 2022 X3 and the pickup was sweet, but the best part was making a u-turn. Oh my word, it's so tight! Vastly better than our current 2019 Equinox. I know I'm going to be so in love with my X1, just as soon as I can order it. We're much closer to canceling the Buick Envision order. Thank you all for your input. We will maintain the X1, even though we'll have to keep it outside in New England. We always treat our cars well, so I shouldn't have any worries.
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      07-15-2022, 05:07 PM   #15
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There's a few high maintenance and unreliable engines. As long as you stay away from those, you're usually good.

Also, the more mass produced, generally the more reliable it is. They have time to work out the bugs and the technology trickles down from the higher end models. The 3 series are generally very good, avoid the 335i because of the engine. 7 series not good etc.
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      07-15-2022, 05:11 PM   #16
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There's a few high maintenance and unreliable engines. As long as you stay away from those, you're usually good.

Also, the more mass produced, generally the more reliable it is. They have time to work out the bugs and the technology trickles down from the higher end models. The 3 series are generally very good, avoid the 335i because of the engine. 7 series not good etc.
What do you think about the 2023 X1? That's the one we're waiting for.
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      07-15-2022, 06:43 PM   #17
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***KNOCK ON WOOD*** Don't wanna jinx myself but I'm at 277,000kms/172,000 miles and overall it's been very reliable imo. I have the N54 so there was a major recall on the HPFP that was on warranty and also the fuel injectors (but unfortunately I had to pay since us Canucks weren't covered unlike you Yankees), so that was a CAD3,xxx hit. Then 2 or 3 times some tranny gasket leaks and an oil filter housing replacement, probably all totalling CAD3,xxx as well. The rest are just consumables. I guess for my car it's alright given the mileage and 12 years I've had it so far, you be the judge.
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      07-15-2022, 07:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
***KNOCK ON WOOD*** Don't wanna jinx myself but I'm at 277,000kms/172,000 miles and overall it's been very reliable imo. I have the N54 so there was a major recall on the HPFP that was on warranty and also the fuel injectors (but unfortunately I had to pay since us Canucks weren't covered unlike you Yankees), so that was a CAD3,xxx hit. Then 2 or 3 times some tranny gasket leaks and an oil filter housing replacement, probably all totalling CAD3,xxx as well. The rest are just consumables. I guess for my car it's alright given the mileage and 12 years I've had it so far, you be the judge.
Wow, that all sounds pretty reasonable for a car that's been driven that many miles over the years. Thank you.
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      07-16-2022, 10:07 AM   #19
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Be aware that the X1 is based on the Mini and is front wheel drive biased, not rear wheel drive like almost every other BMW.

Also, aside from reliability issues, BMW leaves lots of options out of base models and the price can increase dramatically once one adds them in. But, on the other hand, if you don't add them in, you are paying for a luxury car without the luxuries.

BMW actually does pretty well on reliability, especially compared to its German peers (Audi and Mercedes).


My car is particularly at risk for high repair costs because it is a PHEV so I have both an internal combustion engine ("ICE") and a battery pack and electric motor. My solution to that is that I have GEICO as my insurer and I have its mechanical breakdown insurance. Essentially the same as BMW OEM warranty except that it has a $250/incident copay and it will cover me for up to a total of 7 years/100K miles.

So I have my large risks covered until the end of 2024 and I have deposits down on a couple of Battery Electric Vehicles which I figure won't be available for me until at least late next year.

BMWs tend to do much better of fuel efficiency than its competitors. That might offset some of the repair cost risks.

Two final thoughts: BMW has a number of different seating packages (maybe not for the X1 but it doesn't matter for my point) and the forums are filled with folks complaining about one type of seat and praising another. My prior BMW was a 330e with the MSport suspension and my spouse hated it. Said it was too harsh. So when I replaced it I went with the adaptive suspension. My point is that you and any significant other you might have should do a test drive with the combo you are considering and make sure that the seats and suspension will work for you both.
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      07-16-2022, 11:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromans1 View Post
So the few people we've told we're seriously considering buying our very first BMW (the 2023 X1) have all said somewhat negative things alluding to BMW's reputation for being unreliable in the long term, and expensive to repair even the little things.

My question is, is this reputation still deserved, or has BMW made strides in putting that notion to rest?
It depends on the car, how you treat it, and a little bit of luck.

I had no issues buying an M2, as it has proven itself time and time again to be very reliable, but there is no way I'd buy an X1 (I'd buy an Acura RDX A-Spec).
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      07-16-2022, 12:50 PM   #21
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BMWs in the last 7 years are significantly more reliable than the mid-2000s. German cars will always be "expensive" to fix because parts and labor costs are compared to domestics, where parts are cheap because of lower quality and volume of production. German cars also have more engineering behind them, which adds to complexity of repairs that lead to higher labor costs.

Every brand is going to have trade offs when it comes to ownership.
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      07-16-2022, 01:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
BMWs in the last 7 years are significantly more reliable than the mid-2000s. German cars will always be "expensive" to fix because parts and labor costs are compared to domestics, where parts are cheap because of lower quality and volume of production. German cars also have more engineering behind them, which adds to complexity of repairs that lead to higher labor costs.

Every brand is going to have trade offs when it comes to ownership.
That's good then. I have two, and at one time shortly ago, had three BMWs smack in the middle of the 2000's. All of them (an E90 and E46-based Z4) are highly reliable vehicles. The build quality of my '08 Z4 is impeccable. If you say the 2010's are built even better, then that's a reason to strongly consider a 2023 X1.
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