1M Engine - not a straight forward transplant

[sparoz]

Scott had mentioned the N54 is not a straight forward transplant earlier and we didn't understand what he meant -

He has clarified what he meant when he was discussing the upcoming N55 engine:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...57#post8179457

So, that might explain why many reviewers are so happy with this new N54. Not sure if it will have a S signature or not though.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I am not sure about the deletion of the manual transmission. I know in terms of manual they refer to only two cars the 1M and the M3.
Due to the technology that comes with the M5 I think this has killed the manual transmission. M5's I have seen, all included M-DCT.

As for the E90 successor , I have heard nothing official rather than just Coupe and Cabrio models next time around.

But X3 is coming as is an X4 - The X4 is moving rapidly now and like the X5 and X6 before it the introduction of an M variant will mean the X3 also comes along for the ride.

As for the engine debate - The N55 forms the basis for the next M3 but as suggested before it is not a complete transplant.
If you look at the powerplant for the forthcoming M5 it is "based" on the poweplant found in the X's it is not a complete transplant the engine is enhanced to accomodate the character of the M5 meaning more power, etc.

Same goes for the 1M and indeed the M3. The M engineers are experts in finding solutions that seperate the cars and that is something that wont change , every engine could be the same but not all of the cars are the same - M is about character and each car has to have a unique character and that includes engines. Dogmas might be thrown out the window , but an M will always be an M not a superfast BMW 135i, 335i or 550i.

Interesting statement by Scott. I am not sure I completely understand what he is saying however. I hope he will come into this thread and explain.

Does he mean the 1M's engine will be improved in a similar degree as the


1. Base X5/X6 4.4L turbo engine vs. the upcoming M5.

or

2. X5M/X6M 4.4L turbo engine vs. the upcoming M5.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

Interesting statement by Scott. I am not sure I completely understand what he is saying however. I hope he will come into this thread and explain.

Does he mean the 1M's engine will be improved in a similar degree as the


1. Base X5/X6 4.4L turbo engine vs. the upcoming M5.

or

2. X5M/X6M 4.4L turbo engine vs. the upcoming M5.

I think he meant from x5m/x6m vs M5. Still it is good to know it's not just an IS engine.

[PyratOne]

Originally Posted by sparoz

I think he meant from x5m/x6m vs M5. Still it is good to know it's not just an IS engine.

"...but an M will always be an M not a superfast BMW 135i..."


nuff said

[Jaguar66]

Originally Posted by PyratOne

"...but an M will always be an M not a superfast BMW 135i..."


nuff said

Looks like there is one dogma still left on the table. An M will always be an M. It is what it is.

[Kiety]

I don't have any doubts that a M car will get a superior powertrain in the production model compared to its 35is brethrens

[sparoz]

I wonder if the engine is going to be hand built like the other M cars.

[spiderz17]

Since the stated goal for the 1M is "affordable," I would guess no.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by sparoz

I wonder if the engine is going to be hand built like the other M cars.

Not sure that's true of all M cars currently in production.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Not sure that's true of all M cars currently in production.

Or any. I don't recall any hand built engines since the E28 M5 and E34 M5 straight sixes. Methinks someone confused M with AMG.

[cstavaru]

So you are not fully convinced that the 1M will have the 335hp from the Z4 35is ? I am, and I have driven a 35is and believe me, that car is really fast and responsive ! There really is no need for more power in the 1M.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

So you are not fully convinced that the 1M will have the 335hp from the Z4 35is ? I am, and I have driven a 35is and believe me, that car is really fast and responsive ! There really is no need for more power in the 1M.

But there should be. The 1M will be a bit of an icon so it should have something special under the hood, not a borrowed engine.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

But there should be. The 1M will be a bit of an icon so it should have something special under the hood, not a borrowed engine.

Given the low volumes, the car doesn't justify a unique engine. None of the Z3/Z4 M Roadster/Coupes received unique motors, and the 1M Coupe is apparently going to join that club. However if it just gets the N54b30a and not an S designation, that's sort of lame (stated as the owner of a silly S52).

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Given the low volumes, the car doesn't justify a unique engine. None of the Z3/Z4 M Roadster/Coupes received unique motors, and the 1M Coupe is apparently going to join that club. However if it just gets the N54b30a and not an S designation, that's sort of lame (stated as the owner of a silly S52).

Low volume for 2011. A true M car for an attractive price point will be a huge seller for BMW.

[Kurt_OH]

Isn't the volume question still up in the air? At least a couple articles have stated specifically that the limited volume rumor is false.

[Red Bread]

It's available in only three colors, as a coupe only, with out a transmission option for womenly folks, and the replacement of the 1er is coming out eighteen months after the launch, and the car it's based on has sold in relatively tiny numbers. Why would anyone think that this car would sell well?

[JimD]

With respect to the "M will always be an M" I witnessed some validity to the statement Sunday. The Sandlapper chapter of the BMW CCA had an autocross at the BMW Performance Center Sunday. An instructer from the PC was there giving rides in a M3. Then another instructor showed up and started using a X6M. The fast times were between 1:30 and 1:40 with a very few times under 1:30. With 4 people in the M3, he was in the low 1:30s. When we saw the X6M go out, I thought he might be high 1:30s, maybe even over 1:40. High center of gravity, 4 passengers, etc.. He was no more than 2 seconds slower than the M3. I drove a M3, M5, and M6 on that track at M school (although my time didn't show it). The M3 is the fastest of those 3. So for the X6M to be only very slightly slower is really great - for a SUV (or I guess BMW speak is SAV).

If BMW can make a SUV that close to a M3, the 1M will be FAST. Everybody is concentrating on the hp but the gearing is a big deal too. The M3 turns a lot of revs. I doubt the 1M will spin as fast, the turbo 6 doesn't need to, but it will be interesting to see what they do. If it is geared like a M3, it will be very fast but gas mileage will suffer (as it does in the M3). If they gear it closer to a 135i, it will get better mileage but will not be as fast. For marketing reasons, I suspect they will need to be higher hp than the "is" engine but will it also make the hp higher in the rpm range?

Jim

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by JimD

With respect to the "M will always be an M" I witnessed some validity to the statement Sunday. The Sandlapper chapter of the BMW CCA had an autocross at the BMW Performance Center Sunday. An instructer from the PC was there giving rides in a M3. Then another instructor showed up and started using a X6M. The fast times were between 1:30 and 1:40 with a very few times under 1:30. With 4 people in the M3, he was in the low 1:30s. When we saw the X6M go out, I thought he might be high 1:30s, maybe even over 1:40. High center of gravity, 4 passengers, etc.. He was no more than 2 seconds slower than the M3. I drove a M3, M5, and M6 on that track at M school (although my time didn't show it). The M3 is the fastest of those 3. So for the X6M to be only very slightly slower is really great - for a SUV (or I guess BMW speak is SAV).

If BMW can make a SUV that close to a M3, the 1M will be FAST. Everybody is concentrating on the hp but the gearing is a big deal too. The M3 turns a lot of revs. I doubt the 1M will spin as fast, the turbo 6 doesn't need to, but it will be interesting to see what they do. If it is geared like a M3, it will be very fast but gas mileage will suffer (as it does in the M3). If they gear it closer to a 135i, it will get better mileage but will not be as fast. For marketing reasons, I suspect they will need to be higher hp than the "is" engine but will it also make the hp higher in the rpm range?

Jim

I agree with you

When M do something, they do it right. All the internet mud slinging will never change that. The XM's are phenomenal machines and the 1M will equally amazing. I think some people just don't get it - they try to put a formula on what M do, and then get confused when M change direction and progress. Look at all the tuner cars that are out there - play with your car all you want, it just won't feel like an M.

[Robert]

I dont agree "M will always be a M" statement. If you buy into that then so does "Pcar will always be a Porsche therefore always better than a M or BMW" for that matter. BMW will never have the cachet of Porsche.

Now come again, do you still believe in a symbol on a car is always an accurate reflection of its true performance? If you do agree I dont have an issue because at least you are consistent.

[SCOTT26]

Yes but your P-car will soon be a Volkswagen Auto Group platform which will be used across the groups brands.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Yes but your P-car will soon be a Volkswagen Auto Group platform which will be used across the groups brands.

I am just using Porsche as an example. One could have easily inserted Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo in place. The point wasn't Porsche is better but to point out the flaw in the statement "M will always be a M" Pretty sure the industry is incestuous, engineers from audi, bmw, merc, vw, will change job from one company to another

[JimD]

The only two Porsches I have driven were a 911C and a 914. I don't remember the exact model (or year) of the 914 but Wikepedia says the engines were as small as 1.7l. The 914 was kind of fun but nothing like the 911C. I'm willing to bet the autocross time of a 914 is more than 3 seconds slower than a 911C.

The Ms are produced by what amounts to an in-house tuner outfit within BMW. Anything people do can go off course but I remain pleasantly surprised by the performance of the X6M and I remain hopeful that Ms will remain Ms.

Jim