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      08-31-2010, 01:40 PM   #1
southlight
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1M to use twin turbo N54 - or so tell these pictures

Following Bimmerfile's report and Scott's confirmation, I thought it might be worth to have another look at this picture M3roar brought up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3roar View Post
Name:  N54Exhaust1M.jpg
Views: 10017
Size:  77.5 KB

Anyone else see this or is it just me?
It's hard to see in this picture, but the 1M's exhaust system appears to have center cats in the mid section. Here's a better picture of this:

Name:  1M_underbody.jpg
Views: 10063
Size:  104.3 KB



Zooming into the center cats section (center cats section enhanced for more clarity):

Name:  1M_underbody_center_cats.jpg
Views: 9869
Size:  111.7 KB


In case you guys are wondering why I'm stressing this, the same center cats in the midpipes appear on the N54 powered 135i (one on each exhaust pipe, marked with a red arrow each):

Name:  N54_exhaust_drawing.jpg
Views: 10356
Size:  36.3 KB

The N55 powered 135i however doesn't have these center cats as you can see in these pictures, courtesy of black e (see here). Again, the red arrows show where the mid cats would be on the N54 powered 135i:

Name:  N55_midpipe.jpg
Views: 10400
Size:  164.5 KB


Hence, I'd say it's not only safe to assume that Bimmerfile's correct on the N54 being used in the 1M, it's also safe to assume that there won't be any change to the turbo layout, i.e. it will keep the N54's (single scroll) bi-turbo. That being said, I have no idea what Scott could have meant then by saying the 1M engine would be a hybrid between N54 and N55. Any thoughts (or corrections for that matter)?


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      08-31-2010, 01:56 PM   #2
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This makes sense to me. Nice detective work South.
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      08-31-2010, 01:59 PM   #3
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Didnt scott mention early on about a "trick manifold"??? this is the only place where i could see something new and cool in this engine. perhaps a 6-1-2 or 6-2 tubular equal length manifold of some sort? looking at pics of the N55 manifold, you can definitely see that its a mass production design...
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      08-31-2010, 02:07 PM   #4
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Is there a reason that the N55 doesn't have the second set of cats??
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      08-31-2010, 02:16 PM   #5
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Did SCOTT specifically say it would be a 'hybrid' between the N54 and N55? I didn't remember he specified those two engines. Is a 'hybrid' between the N54 and something else possible?
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      08-31-2010, 02:18 PM   #6
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I also tried to figure out what Scotts two posts about the engine/powertrain beeing a hybrid could mean:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I am going to give you a clue.... The 1M powertrain is a Hybrid.

And when I mean Hybrid do not think of the current meaning of "Hybrid" - ie Alternative power , Electricity etc.... and use the original meaning of hybrid.

" When Two seperate entities become one".

Remember BMW evaluate every idea to determine what is the solution?
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The best way to describe the engine of the 1M is a "Hybrid" but in the original form of Hybrid, nothing to do with "alternatives", but it is not a straightforward transplant.
If it's not a straight-forward transplant it could also be based on the N54 with some modifications like larger turbos, changed manifold, changed air intake system, changed/better inter-cooler.

Still trying to figure out how it's possible to feed the 4 intakes of 2 twin-scroll chargers from 6 cylinders ...
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      08-31-2010, 02:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978.530i View Post
Did SCOTT specifically say it would be a 'hybrid' between the N54 and N55? I didn't remember he specified those two engines. Is a 'hybrid' between the N54 and something else possible?
You're right, he didn't mention that. What else could he have meant?


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      08-31-2010, 02:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madozu View Post
Still trying to figure out how it's possible to feed the 4 intakes of 2 twin-scroll chargers from 6 cylinders ...
2 twin scroll turbos would be unnecessary... overly complicated...

2 small variable vane turbos? ah, now that's something
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      08-31-2010, 02:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
2 small variable vane turbos? ah, now that's something
You're right, this would make more sense
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      08-31-2010, 02:30 PM   #10
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you can clearly see the twin pipe's brackets
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      08-31-2010, 02:32 PM   #11
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I did read a while back that BMW was working on a quad turbo 4cl. Could they have slapped more turbos on the 6 or maybe how about twin sequential, taking the turbo off the N55 and adding another (one N55 turbo on each side).
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      08-31-2010, 02:34 PM   #12
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This Wikipedia article about Variable Geometry Turbochargers is worth reading. Especially the first section that mentions the problem of exhaust pressure at high rpm ...
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      08-31-2010, 02:36 PM   #13
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The 1M will surely have a modified air intake compared to the regular N54, because the Z4 35is also has this in order to produce 340hp. But is this enough to use "hybrid" ? I don't think so...
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      08-31-2010, 02:37 PM   #14
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I'm betting it's going to be a standard N54 single scroll, twin turbo, but with better cooling (larger center intercooler and maybe an additional engine bay one, plus an oil cooler), and a new special intake system like the one used on the X6M. Those changes in addition to the remapped software would likely net the ~345 hp that's been suggested. Right?
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      08-31-2010, 02:44 PM   #15
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I don't see why they would revert back to the N54. They have put so much into the development of the N55 and have discussed using it in other future vehicles. Theoretically in our 135's N55 produces the same BHP and Torque as the N54. I think it would be easier to make the reliable power gains that should be necessary to put an M badge by using the N55. Just my thought.
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      08-31-2010, 02:48 PM   #16
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I spoke while before the 1M was confirmed with some BMW insiders/experts and they said that the n54 engine was very likely designed by m gmbh because of its complexity and it was a come back to turbo engines for bmw after a while so they invested quite heavily into it to make sure its a good one (didn't want to fail at this attempt)
So I would assume M gmbh used this engine again as a basis for the 1M
The N55 as I was told is not as good as the N54 and represents cost cutting for mass production engine from BMW.
Just the thought
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      08-31-2010, 02:58 PM   #17
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1M Hybrid engine... logical hypothesis

Could it be between an N54, and turbos from BMW turbo diesel engines?
Technically if it's still twin turbo (since we saw exhaust pipes from the pictures), then it would only make sense to go either
- variable vane
or
- different size

so that top end power isn't shot due to the small snails unable to provide sufficient air.....

which comes to this page:


This is from bmw tech guide
Quote:
Variable Twin Turbo technology takes the BMW four and straight six-cylinder diesel engines to unmatched levels of performance. It dual-stage design enables the engines to achieve performance figures that previously only larger eight-cylinder engines could reach. Emissions and fuel consumption, however, are impressively low.

Innovations such as common rail direct injection and exhaust gas turbo charging with variable turbine geometry have driven dramatic improvements in the performance of diesel engines.
The introduction of BMW's dual-stage turbocharging system, Variable Twin Turbo, represents another quantum leap in diesel engineering. This technology delivers a performance boost of 25 per cent, and enables instant responsiveness even at low engine speeds - as well as enormous reserves of power at higher revs.
The heart of the Variable Twin Turbo system comprises two turbochargers of different sizes. In contrast to the bi-turbo system, the two turbochargers do not operate parallel, but are activated at different points. Precisely coordinated, they run individually or together, increasing the pressure of the intake air to the optimum level. The greater pressure of the intake air enables a more effective combustion of the diesel fuel in the cylinder.
At lower engine speeds, the intake air passes through the inactive larger turbocharger into the active smaller turbocharger, which increases the air pressure. At medium engine speeds, the larger turbocharger becomes active, forcing air under pressure into the smaller unit, which increases the pressure still further. At higher engines speeds, the larger turbocharger alone forces air into the cylinders.
Despite these impressive dynamics, the fuel consumption of the Variable Twin Turbo diesel engine is exemplary low, according to EU standards. The standard diesel particle filter ensures that strict EU4 emissions standards are met.
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      08-31-2010, 03:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach View Post
I don't see why they would revert back to the N54. They have put so much into the development of the N55 and have discussed using it in other future vehicles. Theoretically in our 135's N55 produces the same BHP and Torque as the N54. I think it would be easier to make the reliable power gains that should be necessary to put an M badge by using the N55. Just my thought.

Maybe because this is going to be a short production run and the N55 will be reserved for the upcoming M3?
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      08-31-2010, 03:20 PM   #19
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possible but with the space constraints and knowing the stock snails can handle 380 crank hp wih ease, I dout it.
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      08-31-2010, 03:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomquickness View Post
possible but with the space constraints and knowing the stock snails can handle 380 crank hp wih ease, I dout it.
just because it CAN doesn't mean it should.

M also takes into account the requirement for longevity etc..
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      08-31-2010, 03:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned1 View Post
Maybe because this is going to be a short production run and the N55 will be reserved for the upcoming M3?
That seems the most likely reasoning. Not enough time to sort everything out now....SCOTT even confirmed the N55 couldnt be used in the E82 1M because the valvetronic issues couldn't be sorted out quickly enough.

He did confirm though that the N55 is still slated to be the basis for the F30 M3....
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      08-31-2010, 04:38 PM   #22
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Nice work, South!
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