To the guys with re flashes and tunes

[0002s]

:biggrin:

Originally Posted by gargoyal

You are right I did not see your edited post that came an hour later. I am at work and doing other stuff, so I quoted your earlier version that was incorrect.

It's nice to see you are now agreeing with me and are quoting facts now.

BTW most definitions of power train includes a lot more than just the engine and the parts effected by boost levels. I am glad to see you updated that earlier post to be more accurate also.

Actually I misread your post and when I re-read it I made changes a few minutes later. I also found spelling errors and kept making changes...:biggrin:

My main points are:

1. Dinan does not always give you complete protection.

2. BMW will deny engine related with Dinan (Dinan picks up though)

3. Mag-Moss has limitations

4. BMW will red flag cars that they catch

I do agree that transmissions are powertrain so something like DP's "should not" have issue here. I would venture to guess that clutches would be and issue with tunes though.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by 0002s

:biggrin:

Actually I misread your post and when I re-read it I made changes a few minutes later. I also found spelling errors and kept making changes...:biggrin:

My main points are:

1. Dinan does not always give you complete protection.

2. BMW will deny engine related with Dinan (Dinan picks up though)

3. Mag-Moss has limitations

4. BMW will red flag cars that they catch

I do agree that transmissions are powertrain so something like DP's "should not" have issue here. I would venture to guess that clutches would be and issue with tunes though.

This is why I like this forum. Even the flame wars become friendly. :biggrin:

+1 on your points

I would add

5. If you increase the stock boost, be prepared for BMW to deny any claim that appears boost related. If you do anything that will increase boost on top of a DINAN tune, be prepared for DINAN to deny the claim also.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

This is why I like this forum. Even the flame wars become friendly. :biggrin:

+1 on your points

I would add

5. If you increase the stock boost, be prepared for BMW to deny any claim that appears boost related. If you do anything that will increase boost on top of a DINAN tune, be prepared for DINAN to deny the claim also.

Yes...

[FleaDog]

Originally Posted by jtsherri

Sh*t happens, man. If you're going to play, prepare to [potentially] pay.

This is exactly why I have a line drawn in the sand for my mods and won't be crossing it until the car is almost completely paid off.

EDIT: Keep in mind that I speak from experience too... The good news is that I previously popped an STi motor that cost me $3500 to replace vs. $Texas for the N54B30 in our babies.

^^^

and thats just the short block... double that plus some for a 'normal' engine.

It brings up an important point though, coming from the STI, most of us are paranoid about monitoring the engine's vital signs, and its sacrilege to many to even go stage II (turbo-back exhaust + EM) without first having boost, oil pressure, and exhaust gas temperature gauges; and probably 50% of those also have a wideband A/F monitor, knock sensor, or data log.

Very few folks here even use a boost gauge, which to me is scary! I realize the 135i's turbo's arent pushing 'a lot' of boost, but I would still need to know whats going on... Am I boost creeping in the cold? How did it change when I swithced intakes? Am I hitting target boost? Where and when is it tapering, and where and when in the powerband? Not to mention monitoring the vacuum can help optimize gas mileage.

I could never 100% trust any "off the shelf" reflash. At least with a little understanding, and some data (if you have the means to acquire it) you may be able to catch a small problem bfore it gets big.

[jtsherri]

Originally Posted by FleaDog

^^^

and thats just the short block... double that plus some for a 'normal' engine.

I had a hookup and got the entire long block with exhaust manifolds, up-pipe, turbo, entire intake path and all accessories for $3500 shipped. :wink:

[itsthechuck]

Originally Posted by FleaDog

^^^

and thats just the short block... double that plus some for a 'normal' engine.

It brings up an important point though, coming from the STI, most of us are paranoid about monitoring the engine's vital signs, and its sacrilege to many to even go stage II (turbo-back exhaust + EM) without first having boost, oil pressure, and exhaust gas temperature gauges; and probably 50% of those also have a wideband A/F monitor, knock sensor, or data log.

Very few folks here even use a boost gauge, which to me is scary! I realize the 135i's turbo's arent pushing 'a lot' of boost, but I would still need to know whats going on... Am I boost creeping in the cold? How did it change when I swithced intakes? Am I hitting target boost? Where and when is it tapering, and where and when in the powerband? Not to mention monitoring the vacuum can help optimize gas mileage.

I could never 100% trust any "off the shelf" reflash. At least with a little understanding, and some data (if you have the means to acquire it) you may be able to catch a small problem bfore it gets big.

Your absolutely right, before any major modding goes on, you should definately have the ability to monitor what is happening with the car. One of my first mods in my WRX was a boost gauge and as the mods increased so did the amount of things I could monitor on the car with the various gauges I had to install.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

This is why I like this forum. Even the flame wars become friendly. :biggrin:

Me too!

[brendend]

wow i had no idea how strick bmw was with modding the car. my mustang, ecu flash, exhaust, intake, 410s in the rear, goes to the dealer when needed with all mods still on the car and i have not once been told that ford wont honor anything because of the mods. im really starting to second guess getting the 135.i love the car but i dont think i could keep driving it in its stock form.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by brendend

wow i had no idea how strick bmw was with modding the car. my mustang, ecu flash, exhaust, intake, 410s in the rear, goes to the dealer when needed with all mods still on the car and i have not once been told that ford wont honor anything because of the mods. im really starting to second guess getting the 135.i love the car but i dont think i could keep driving it in its stock form.

I don't think BMW is that much different than anyone else on coverage. The different is forced induction (FI) vs all motor. FI is a very different game. Lots of power gains with lots of extra stress on the engine. If you slap an aftermarket turbo on your mustang watch your ford dealer get squeamish.

Opening up the flow of your all motor car does not significantly change the stress on the engine. Increasing boost on an FI car puts more stress on the engine, which usually means less long term reliability.

Also changing out non OEM spec parts on your car may cause the factory ECU flash to spike the boost (which is dangerous, more stress) because of parameters that the software developers did not anticipate.

Modding FI cars or adding FI to an all motor car is not for the faint of heart.

[frank2287]

were are these videos i wanna know

[larryn]

Originally Posted by frank2287

were are these videos i wanna know

??? :iono:

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by brendend

wow i had no idea how strick bmw was with modding the car. my mustang, ecu flash, exhaust, intake, 410s in the rear, goes to the dealer when needed with all mods still on the car and i have not once been told that ford wont honor anything because of the mods. im really starting to second guess getting the 135.i love the car but i dont think i could keep driving it in its stock form.

But what parts have been replaced under warranty?

You have to admit that there's a difference between what you did with that car and what's being done with the 135i. Cranking the boost up by 40-50% on a turbo motor has a lot more potential to break things than tweaking a NA V8 like the Mustang or GTO.

BMW is taking such a hard line because the warranty costs are through the roof on this engine, and it's likely a significant portion of that cost is due to modding rather than engineering or production issues

Don't misunderstand that I'm against modding the car, but I can see BMW's position on it. They didn't sell you a 400Hp car that runs 12 low 12 second 1/4 miles, and they can't really be expected to pay to warranty one when it breaks. :w00t: