05-13-2011, 08:11 AM | #67 | |
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^This Also, I don't think that it will be a stretch for COBB to pull the DME software off of a 1-Series M and offer it as an alternative "M Stage" tune with their AP. I know that we do this all of the time with other tuning and ECU devices, so I don't see what COBB would not be able to do the same.
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05-13-2011, 08:12 AM | #68 |
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This thread was started to find out how a TUNED 135i would compare to a stock 1M. Did you miss that?
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05-13-2011, 08:14 AM | #69 | |
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Even with that being said, I have no problems getting off the line with my open diff (and with both tires burning up the pavement). So, I would wager that the LSD will not be that big of a factor until one begins to turn the wheel.
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05-13-2011, 08:18 AM | #70 | |
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JB4 in a 135 does 0-60 in what...low 4s? Seems obvious that this will outperform the stock 1M 0-60 given the times we have seen (4.5 best I believe). Once a software tune is available for the 1M it will certainly be quicker to 60 then the 135 as the power is better directed to the pavement. |
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05-13-2011, 08:22 AM | #71 | ||
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05-13-2011, 10:55 AM | #72 | |
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If you are fooling the car into thinking something then how does the baseline starting point matter? The car has to adjust up to or for that "fooled" parameter. I would think its takes more adjustment for the 135 and less for the 1M, both yielding an identical final adjustment. |
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05-13-2011, 10:57 AM | #73 | |
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It doesn't.
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05-13-2011, 11:15 AM | #74 | ||
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Piggy backs for the most part work by playing the role of an "offset", if we may call it so, typically changing the DME's view of parameters and values; it's called a piggy back for a reason. If you apply that "offset" to a setup that is already more aggressively tuned, it will yield higher increases in power.
On the other hand, when a DME/ecu is flashed, the memory chip is reprogrammed with the new mappings, in which case the base tune is irrelevant since nothing is being "fooled". Quote:
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05-13-2011, 11:18 AM | #75 | |
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It's pretty technical, and some things in the 1M MAY benifit tuning in a compatibility sense, but I bet 99% will be the same tuning parameters.
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05-13-2011, 11:22 AM | #76 | |
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I am not a tuner but I believe that the above is pretty much how it is.
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05-13-2011, 11:31 AM | #77 | |
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Aren't we saying the same thing, just differently? |
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05-13-2011, 11:35 AM | #78 | ||
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This may be the "new" way of piggy backs and I could very well be wrong as to how they work on the n5x motors, however, many piggy back systems have been offset tunes...similar to a manual boost controller: all it does it leak air from the line that opens the wastegate in order to force the turbo to compress more air (raise boost) so that the wastegate receives enough pressure to open - granted, this analogy is as mechanical as it gets.
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05-13-2011, 12:28 PM | #79 |
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To be basic, it is my understanding that the piggyback sees the boost that is being ran and makes the DME think it is seeing less boost so that it will then add more boost until the JB4 hits it's target. This is why if the JB4 map 2 commands 14.5 psi peak, then that is what you will get unless their is something wrong with your car. It isn't adding 5.5 psi. It is simply telling the DME that it is only making 3.5 psi, therefor the DME adjusts the WG to the point that the DME finally sees 9 psi, but in reality the turbos are pushing 14.5 psi. In a very small nutshell.
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05-13-2011, 12:38 PM | #80 | |
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05-13-2011, 12:45 PM | #81 |
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Yep.
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05-13-2011, 01:01 PM | #82 |
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If you think you can stack a piggy-back tune on top of a DME tune and get piggy + DME results, you're obviously very used to getting something for nothing, or don't mind if your engine goes pop very quickly as some stupid boost levels get requested...
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05-13-2011, 01:09 PM | #83 |
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I think that is where the problem is in some peoples minds. The engine has the same turbos, same cams, same head, same CR, etc etc. So, short of a miracle the end results will be the same as with any other N54.
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05-13-2011, 01:37 PM | #84 | |
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To keep you happy, lets put this to rest and say the engine is EXACTLY the same so a tuned 1m and a tuned 135 will have the same power output. The 1M is better equipped to put the power to the ground which all that counts. |
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05-13-2011, 01:45 PM | #85 | |
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With humor I still must say that the only proof I have to back it up is based off of the evidence gathered from the engine in my 135i that carries the same N54 designation.
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05-13-2011, 01:46 PM | #86 |
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I'd like to see a showdown between Berk Tech 135i vs. 1M. Straight and corners.
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05-13-2011, 01:50 PM | #87 | |
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My vote is on the BT...
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05-13-2011, 01:53 PM | #88 |
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@1seriesstud: You thought this whole time that piggyback tunes on 135i's stacked??? Ok now I know you are new to the E82 tuning world Just messing with you...but like the others have said they do NOT stack but instead fool the car into thinking it has lower boost and then adjusting timing and other parameters to run at what the boost level actually is.....JB4, Procede both do it although in slightly different ways (an entire argument on its own). Will a tuned 135i with piggyback and full exhaust and IC mods be fast in a straight line? You bet your ass it will...esp. if they both hook up off the line properly...no way a retooled intake, exhaust, flywheel, and LSD beats my car with 60-70 more WHP and 70-80 more lb/ft of torque.
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