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06-08-2011, 11:52 PM | #23 |
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Guys, I'm not an M3 troll..you guys can tell that I am doing everything possible to get a 1M over an M3 BUT I am a car guy and actually have worked a few years in an IMSA GTP Dyno and test department and I can tell you with absolute certainty that heat DOES affect peformance. That is why there are big intercoolers on these cars to cool the intake charge. If the outside air is hot, the intercoolers cannot cool the charge. It is a very simple concept. So as an impartial guy, just thought I would mention it before you start a war over something so basic. The interesting thing is that hot air will also affect NA cars. The one advantage turbos have is that hot air is less dense which is why NA cars lose a little power. Turbos can compensate a bit because thinner air gives less resistance to the turbo impeller so it can spin faster and make up for some of the loss of volume, hence making up for the loss of density. As long as the engine can keep from detonating by cooling the air charge with extra fuel, theoretically, the turbo car should do a little better. Once detonation begins due to the heated air charge, the timing will retard and you will lose power. Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there.
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06-08-2011, 11:56 PM | #24 | |
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Seeing as two of the three normally aspirated models overheated... where as the turbo car lost a little torque.... that's not a great showing for the normally aspirated motors anyway.. I'm not a fan of one motor over the other... I'm just sayin... |
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06-09-2011, 12:04 AM | #25 | |
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It sounds like the M3 didn't overheat which is interesting since that is a high reving, high compression motor. Not saying anything either way, but direct injection is amazing stuff. |
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06-09-2011, 03:03 AM | #26 |
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The OP is right on the N54 powered 1M losing torque as temperatures elevated, it's no different than what we have already seen on the N54 powered 135 and 335i's.
We saw 60C IAT's on a single dyno pull in low 70s ambient temps so repeated track sessions will sure get the IAT's even higher. With that kind of IAT's most of us know that the DME will start to pull timing and power is reduced. A good FMIC will help keep the power more consistent here. |
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06-09-2011, 06:30 AM | #27 | |||
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I came from a heavily tracked 335i. The car was awesome in cool temps, anything above 85F degrees the car would suffer major heat soak despite running an upgraded oil cooler, intercooler, removal of the fog lamps and running straight distilled water. Quote:
I'm running my '11 6MT M3 Coupe (ZCP) at the track this weekend where I expect triple digit temps this weekend. The 1M didn't overheat, but the engine was running less than 100% due to heat. Quote:
As far a tracking, I've been doing it a few years now (probably 30-35 times a year) Again I think it is a great car.
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06-09-2011, 06:41 AM | #28 | ||||
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I've gotta come back to reality this weekend and shift myself. Quote:
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06-09-2011, 06:44 AM | #29 |
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CLUTCH
One last thing, the clutch was tough to get used to. My M3 clutch is grabby, but the 1M is super grabby. It is not the same clutch used in the 335i/135i or the M3. I wonder if BMW upgraded the clutch due to the increase in torque. Just something to note. It felt more like a porsche clutch, which in my opinion is a GOOD thing.
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06-09-2011, 06:46 AM | #30 |
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Just want to add that although Dan Parker didn't report any loss in torque/power, but he did report oil temp at 280F. His car also have an AFE intercooler which would help things along.
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06-09-2011, 06:48 AM | #31 |
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Nice review...by the M3 driver
Clearly the car is not for you, and I'm sure no one will be offended by your write up, given that there are so many individuals in line/list wishing that they could get their hands on a 1M. You not going for one is going to make someone else VERY happy! So I say: M3 drivers, please stick to your M3's! |
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06-09-2011, 07:00 AM | #32 | ||
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Oh yes, the LCD screen was hard to read with the sun reflection. I'm not sure if you can adjust that (angle or otherwise). I didn't bother. And the Alpine White looks awesome in person, but I'm partial.
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06-09-2011, 07:15 AM | #33 |
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Dan's car doesnt have a AFE intercooler but the dual cone intake.
I was speaking with a local track guy yesterday (M3 DCT) his car was driven by a racer and to my surprise it did overheat after 5 hard laps. This was in Houston and i bet track temps were prob over 100. |
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06-09-2011, 07:49 AM | #34 |
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I've got to say that I'm with you on this (obviously, as it is so clearly and demonstrably true). techthentic, I can only assume that you've never driven a powerful turbocharged car in a variety of temperature conditions, so have never experienced the pre-emptive tingle of getting into the car on a frosty morning and knowing it's going to have that little extra push compared to a nice hot day....?
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06-09-2011, 08:14 AM | #35 |
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This is a very subjective thread - obviously someone who chooses an m3 will use the m3 as the basis for comparison. Some will do it the other way around.
Personally, as much history as the m3 has, other than the amazing high revving v8, i don't believe the e9x m3 has much to offer to the purist/enthusiast. It's grown too large, gotten too heavy, yet it continues to be a great car. I wouldn't think twice about picking a 1m over an m3. In fact I "considered" moving to an e92 m3 in the past up until the 1m was announced, in which case the m3 became immediately a secondary choice for me. Oh and DCT? You couldn't pay me enough money for me to transition away from the true manual experience. Then again, this is my opinion. In terms of fun, every review of the 1m involves the car being driven sideways, and apparently it does so very effortlessly. The sweet spot of an m3 is right up there in the high rpm's...the sweet spot of a 1m starts right at 1k rpm's and doesn't stop until redline - to me this is priceless. The power constantly churns out, and there is no need squeeze it out of the engine when driving around on a daily basis. |
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06-09-2011, 08:20 AM | #36 |
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Ams Fmic Ftw
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06-09-2011, 08:21 AM | #37 | |
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I always felt the M3 was piggy, but after driving the M6 and M5, the m3 felt like a gutted spec miata.
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06-09-2011, 08:36 AM | #38 | |
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Do you know how childish you sound? Maybe it's time to ask mommy and daddy for your grown up card now We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. Don't get butt hurt just because a M3 driver has had some seat time in a 1M (and you haven't yet) and didn't enjoy it as much as his M3. To each their own... |
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06-09-2011, 08:46 AM | #39 |
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I'll let your own words show your ignorance.
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06-09-2011, 08:50 AM | #40 | ||
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Oh goodness thanks for the morning laugh!!! Quote:
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06-09-2011, 08:54 AM | #42 |
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"M cars are not about engines, they are about chassis. The chassis is pure M car. The car doesn't suffer from turbo lag and doesn't get much more fun. For the money, it has to be one of the best fun cars you can buy." - Chris Harris from EVO.
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06-09-2011, 09:09 AM | #43 |
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Scientifically speaking from a engineering standpoint Cold air brings air temperatures down and makes cold air. Cold air is much denser than warm, humid air. Cooler or cold air holds more oxygen for any given amount. The more oxygen going into an engine equals the more powerful the combustion. Cooler air also gives more horsepower with the same or better fuel economy.
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06-09-2011, 09:36 AM | #44 | |
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This is true of both Normally Aspirated Engines and Turbo Charged Engines. Altitude effects engines in the same way. However Turbo Engines are much less effected by Altitude changes than NA engines are. To the OP, Turbo engines have successfully been used in racing cars for over 100 years everything from Rally to Indy cars. In most cases this Loss of power as the heat of the day increases is not very noticeable since it is a gradual loss as the system heats up, that is unless the car goes into some type of Limp mode that shuts off the Turbos.. The same loss is happening to NA engines but to a smaller degree. I too have a Chipped N54 engine and have ran it hard in 95+ degree temps without any limp mode or real noticeable loss of power. Same with my 05 Subaru STi that is running Stage 2 performance mods, this car performs great in high temps as well even with the Stock Intercooler. Miller Mortorsports track gets very hot in the summer, but it's a dry heat.
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