Anything You Don't Like About 1 Coupe?

[nickmpower]

weight

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by spinzero

Like I said, fanboism is STRONG on this one.

That's why I have a special place for fanbois - it's called the 'Ignore List' ; -)

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by MPower

You are making big assumptions as you clearly have not read anything about the 335i's overheating problems, fuel pump problems, etc. It's a fine engine, no question, but there is no denying that an N52 would not have these problems.

And using the 2002 Turbo has a model for turbocharged reliability...

??
You know as well I do, that the indicated problems wasn't with the engine, but with OEM vendors and bad boardroom decision of not adding oil coolers in some optioned 335i's..! The engine itself, doesn't have problems.

If your here and not elsewhere than I can understand your approach at me, but I am a well known bmw owner and fan, (aswell of Porsche and Audi) I'm active in the community and participate on many boards. There just seems to be alot of "crap talk" on these e80's series boards.

Many want, want, want... instead of debating on reality. Thats a sure sign of dilusion. Your not getting a 130i simply because a you have 2 choices!

NA vs FI there is no debate or census on realiability between the 2. Thus, there is no debate to be had. So it comes down to personal choice. I'd rather have the 135i ..!

You..?




-Garrett

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Garrett

??
You know as well I do, that the indicated problems wasn't with the engine, but with OEM vendors and bad boardroom decision of not adding oil coolers in some optioned 335i's..! The engine itself, doesn't have problems.

The only models that had the one fewer oil cooler were automatic transmission models. To my knowledge, all manual transmission models were equipped with two oil coolers from the factory. Which makes Motor Trend's experience with a 335i still valid. And no matter how you sugar coat it, it is the engine that is running upwards of 330 degrees (F). To say that the engine doesnt have problems is completely ignoring the the fact that the engine is overheating, not the oil coolers.

Originally Posted by Garrett

If your here and not elsewhere than I can understand your approach at me, but I am a well known bmw owner and fan, (aswell of Porsche and Audi) I'm active in the community and participate on many boards. There just seems to be alot of "crap talk" on these e80's series boards.

Stretching your muscle on an internet forum... must feel good, doesn't it? If you think this is crap talk, I can direct you to thousands of other forums where it is much worse.

Originally Posted by Garrett

Many want, want, want... instead of debating on reality. Thats a sure sign of dilusion. Your not getting a 130i simply because a you have 2 choices!

Do you just ignore every post that is posted and continuing saying the same thing over and over again? spinzero and I have been debating the reality of a poor business decision to bring us a neutered engine for no apparent reason.

Originally Posted by Garrett

NA vs FI there is no debate or census on realiability between the 2. Thus, there is no debate to be had. So it comes down to personal choice. I'd rather have the 135i ..!

You..?

If money wasnt a factor, I would be in line at the BMW dealer waiting for an M3. Unfortunately money is a factor and it will determine whether or not a 135i will work or not. Still, the 130i would have satisfied everything for me for the price of a 128i. Just a bad, bad, bad business decision.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by MPower

Stretching your muscle on an internet forum... must feel good, doesn't it? If you think this is crap talk, I can direct you to thousands of other forums where it is much worse.

MPower, you'd be a saint in most other car forums. (no sarcasm intended) I for one gave up on engaging Garrett in this line of discussion.

[Brownergy]

What's with all this world class motor nonsense? How is the 128i's motor world class all the sudden. My S2000 motor has 2 cyl. less, has a higher redline, makes more power and will live well past 100k miles. Does that mean it's universe class? A 3.0L NA V6 making less than 250hp is embarrassing in todays market. The Chevy LS3 V8 makes 430hp and gets better gas mileage than the 335i's V6TT, so where's all this hype about BMW and it's world class motors coming from.

I guess every forum has it's badge humpers.

[ichiban]

sure every motor has it's advantages. i.e the F20C has very good power to liter output... but your torque is crap, just utter crap. The LS3 V8 has great power light weight and gets better gas milage. But modability on it is very poor. infact, if you want any power other than the most basic bolt ons, you'd have to strip the engine apart, do cams or FI. While i've never owned a bmw, but i will say from what i hear and experienced, extracting power from the N54 costs next to nothing compared to it's compeitiors.

[Brownergy]

I don't want to get too off topic but you're completely foolish to think an LS3 doesn't respond well to mods. A K/N filter/intake combo gets you 25whp, long tube headers another 35-40whp, name a BMW motor that you get 50-70whp in under $1000?

And you're right, the S2000 doesn't have much torque, it didn't need it as it's not a very heavy car, and the rev happy nature of the motor was suppose to resemble the feel of Honda's F1 heritage. I'm not a Honda fanatic nor an S2000 fanboi, but I'm a huge road racing fan, and love car's that are nimble, and a joy to drive. I think I would be ungodly bored in a 128i compared to what else is out there for similar money. I hope the 135i is a true drivers car, from what I've seen, BMW doesn't want to back up their slogan of "sheer driving pleasure."

[mikeo]

I think he's refering to international awards the 3.0L N/A engine has won over the past 5 years.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by Brownergy

... the 335i's V6TT...

Dude. There is NO SUCH THING as a BMW V6!

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Brownergy

I don't want to get too off topic but you're completely foolish to think an LS3 doesn't respond well to mods. A K/N filter/intake combo gets you 25whp, long tube headers another 35-40whp, name a BMW motor that you get 50-70whp in under $1000?

Couple of comments:

1. K/N Filters add next to nothing in terms of power. An improved intake will certainly help but I would question 25whp.

2. Regardless, the N54 can easily gain at least 50whp (even more torque) by a simple ECU modification. Get an improved intercooler and you are talking 400 horsepower pretty easily. Not to mention that the installation cost of an ECU upgrade is next to nothing, which certainly can not be said for header installations.

With these modifications, a 135i would easily be below 4.5 seconds to sixty at which point the car would almost be too fast for the road (if it isnt already out of the box).

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by MPower

The only models that had the one fewer oil cooler were automatic transmission models. To my knowledge, all manual transmission models were equipped with two oil coolers from the factory. Which makes Motor Trend's experience with a 335i still valid. And no matter how you sugar coat it, it is the engine that is running upwards of 330 degrees (F). To say that the engine doesnt have problems is completely ignoring the the fact that the engine is overheating, not the oil coolers.

Stretching your muscle on an internet forum... must feel good, doesn't it? If you think this is crap talk, I can direct you to thousands of other forums where it is much worse.

Do you just ignore every post that is posted and continuing saying the same thing over and over again? spinzero and I have been debating the reality of a poor business decision to bring us a neutered engine for no apparent reason.

If money wasnt a factor, I would be in line at the BMW dealer waiting for an M3. Unfortunately money is a factor and it will determine whether or not a 135i will work or not. Still, the 130i would have satisfied everything for me for the price of a 128i. Just a bad, bad, bad business decision.

To your knowledge..? C'mon, can you understand why I was calling shenanigans about people talking crap?

Well your wrong! Only cars with the sport package were suppose to come with the oil cooler. Now, with all the complaints (very few actual problems) and supplier problems, BMW had modified that to include other optioned 335i's. I've read that all 2008 335i models will have the oil coolers, plz confirm.

Secondly, if you READ, then you'll know that the n54 was designed to run hotter for efficiency reasons. As was mentioned in their BMWefficiencydynamics program liturature.


I do understand your wanting more value in the base model if your not going to pull the trigger on a 135i. But, to wish or debate over that ad nauseum is pointless. Your saying that 265 hp is enough for you, where-as 230hp isn't? But logically, most the people who buy the base model (128i)will still get exceptional performance for a $30k'ish BMW coupe.

Coicidentally, if "performance" is what your looking for, BMW offers the 135i for only $4 grand more. Hardly insurmountable or even debatable, because option in cars like these can add $6k easily.

Your trying to argue a fact that the Mustang has only 210hp and it's not enough for you and complaining you want more power, yet Ford offers the Mustang GT for only $5k more. BMW is no different.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for, BMW isn't going to hand you what your looking for, for under $30k...!!






-Garrett

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Brownergy

What's with all this world class motor nonsense? How is the 128i's motor world class all the sudden. My S2000 motor has 2 cyl. less, has a higher redline, makes more power and will live well past 100k miles. Does that mean it's universe class? A 3.0L NA V6 making less than 250hp is embarrassing in todays market. The Chevy LS3 V8 makes 430hp and gets better gas mileage than the 335i's V6TT, so where's all this hype about BMW and it's world class motors coming from.

I guess every forum has it's badge humpers.

LOL...

You have to remove your head from BMW and look at the automotive industry for 15 years to get a firm grasp of the level of engineering that goes into BMW's engine. This might help.

Secondly, it not about how many cylinders you have, but the liters. Yes, the Honds's 2.2l engine is impressive, but wouldn't work in this application. Just like BMW designed a new engine for their M3, because it's racing heritage it will now come with a 4.0liter 420hp that revs to 8300rpm. So, what was your point?

Thirdly, Chevrolet's LS3 (another excellent engine) is a 6.2l and has 436hp, yet BMW's n54 has more torque down low and is capable of nearly the same numbers with only 3.0l, thats 3.2 less liters! The LS3 is too heavy for an application like the 135i, so I don't see you point.

Though, BMW does have a 5L engine that produces 507hp and revs to 8,250rpms.... So I again fail to see your correlation or application in that car segment, either.

Also, BMW doesn't make a V6 as you suggested, they are Inline-6's.

Oh, almost forgot.. Read THIS and go back for 10 years and see what World Class Manufacturer is on the list every year..!





-Garrett

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by MPower

Couple of comments:

1. K/N Filters add next to nothing in terms of power. An improved intake will certainly help but I would question 25whp.

2. Regardless, the N54 can easily gain at least 50whp (even more torque) by a simple ECU modification. Get an improved intercooler and you are talking 400 horsepower pretty easily. Not to mention that the installation cost of an ECU upgrade is next to nothing, which certainly can not be said for header installations.

With these modifications, a 135i would easily be below 4.5 seconds to sixty at which point the car would almost be too fast for the road (if it isnt already out of the box).

+10

Somebody's thinking like me !

The BMW 135i with a few quality aftermarket upgrades will be an inexpensive sleeper!





-Garrett

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by Garrett

I do understand your wanting more value in the base model if your not going to pull the trigger on a 135i. But, to wish or debate over that ad nauseum is pointless. Your saying that 265 hp is enough for you, where-as 230hp isn't? But logically, most the people who buy the base model (128i)will still get exceptional performance for a $30k'ish BMW coupe.

Coicidentally, if "performance" is what your looking for, BMW offers the 135i for only $4 grand more. Hardly insurmountable or even debatable, because option in cars like these can add $6k easily.

Your trying to argue a fact that the Mustang has only 210hp and it's not enough for you and complaining you want more power, yet Ford offers the Mustang GT for only $5k more. BMW is no different.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for, BMW isn't going to hand you what your looking for, for under $30k...!!






-Garrett

Are you some kind of a human-brickwall hybrid?

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Garrett

To your knowledge..? C'mon, can you understand why I was calling shenanigans about people talking crap?

No, and statements like this confirm my thoughts of you being an arrogant, confused little man:

Originally Posted by Garrett

Somebody's thinking like me !

Because, you know, everyone should think like you!

Originally Posted by Garrett

Well your wrong! Only cars with the sport package were suppose to come with the oil cooler. Now, with all the complaints (very few actual problems) and supplier problems, BMW had modified that to include other optioned 335i's. I've read that all 2008 335i models will have the oil coolers, plz confirm.

Results are mixed. Various trims have oil coolers and some dont. The early consensus was with the automatic vs. manual trannys (as evidenced by multiple threads on this forum). Even now there does not seem to be a consensus as some '08s with the sport package are still receiving their cars without the oil cooler (at least that I was what I have gathered from e90post.com). Regardless, as you can see with the Motor Trend review, their manual/sport equipped 335i overheated. The fact that you think this is a minor problem is comical.

Originally Posted by Garrett

Secondly, if you READ, then you'll know that the n54 was designed to run hotter for efficiency reasons. As was mentioned in their BMWefficiencydynamics program liturature.

Find me that page and post here. I HIGHLY doubt that you will be able to, otherwise BMW have found the first engine ever to run better hot, rather than cool (comparatively). Out of curiosity then, in your opinion would a cold air intake for the 335i reduce performance?

Originally Posted by Garrett

I do understand your wanting more value in the base model if your not going to pull the trigger on a 135i. But, to wish or debate over that ad nauseum is pointless. Your saying that 265 hp is enough for you, where-as 230hp isn't? But logically, most the people who buy the base model (128i)will still get exceptional performance for a $30k'ish BMW coupe.

Coicidentally, if "performance" is what your looking for, BMW offers the 135i for only $4 grand more. Hardly insurmountable or even debatable, because option in cars like these can add $6k easily.

Boy, your knowledge is overwhelming! ad nauseum... how am I supposed to understand that!

I guess your answer to the question I posed earlier is that you wouldnt want more power without reduced fuel efficiency for the same price.

Additionally, I love how you have concluded that the 135i would only cost "$4 grand more" when pricing hasnt been officially announced. Certainly it could be a lot worse than that. Regardless, the point is that I shouldnt have to spend more money to compensate for a neutered engine. Keep in mind that the differences between the 328i and 330i are not just in peak figures but in the delivery where the 328i's intentionally reduced power results in a much more anemic engine response in higher rpms.

Finally, I suppose your recommendation is to "allow" ourselves to pay too much for a car that provides much more than you want. Following ideas like that will only lead to debt. What you can afford is what you can afford and what I can afford should include a finely tuned 130i.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by MPower

Results are mixed. Various trims have oil coolers and some dont. The early consensus was with the automatic vs. manual trannys (as evidenced by multiple threads on this forum). Even now there does not seem to be a consensus as some '08s with the sport package are still receiving their cars without the oil cooler (at least that I was what I have gathered from e90post.com). Regardless, as you can see with the Motor Trend review, their manual/sport equipped 335i overheated. The fact that you think this is a minor problem is comical.

So you admit you knew, yet you trying to falsly make people believe it was the engine and not an oil cooler issue..? As it's well documented than many, many 6-speeds didn't come with the oil cooler either. Why skirt the truth?

Wait.. are you suggesting that MT review car overheated? I thought it went into "limp mode" to protect the car from overheating! Which was a result of that car comming out of Germany without an oil cooler.

Read up on BMWefficiencydynamics...! Thats why I supplied you with the term. Just google it and read. Watch the video at bmw web-tv and you'll see when he asked the lead engineer about the engine and he remarks about the n54 running hotter for efficiencydynamics.

In basic trim, the 128i will be under $30k and the 135i wll be mid $30's. That was already mentioned by BMW.

The 128i is not neutered, it a bio flex fuel ready and a perfect choice for introducing BMW to an audience that wouldn't normally be in BMW's demographic. Emissions is a big deal, so is ethenol. It's all apart of the whole over-all package.



You seem to be so much orientated on PERFORMANCE, yet fixated on the base model, yet relunctant to admit that for a nominal cost you can upgrade to a near supercar type performance, that your not considering the 135i..?

I don't know why this is, but BMW has the solution, your just not accepting it. Now, I can understand if the 135i is not financially viable for some or the wife imposed a set limit, etc. But, (again) there is a performance version of the car your looking at, but the base model is simple not it.





-Garrett

[BMWeber]

dam so many things to discuss so little time to type. First thing is I'm in agreement with most of the things Garrett is saying.

one comment on cars running more efficiently hotter Is a fact, to a point. that is why cars have thermostats. anyone ever have a thermostat get stuck open. in average weather the car can stay 40F or so cooler than normal operating temperature. if cooler was always better why don't cars just run like that? for example economy versions of the old 5.0 liter ford always had a higher temp thermostat than the HO versions.

about the LS3 and fuel economy. it's not just the engine. I've owned a few LS series engine cars. half the high fuel economy has to do with the ridiculous low 6th gear. if you drive around not using 6th you'll average about 18 MPG. the other thing is the corvettes aerodynamics, they help a lot at highway speeds. my Z06 would get up to 28 mpg on a long trip.

130 vs 128 I think everyone would like a 130 vs 128. its just not practical for BMW. it would definitely take some sales away from the 335 that's why a 130 coup isn't available in Europe. I'd be considering 130 vs 135 if they made it. they're also trying to keep costs down(however little it is). maybe they should of just brought us a 125 or even a 120. ofcourse everyone would be debating why didn't they make it a 128 vs a 125 because the 125 really is just a neutered 128. oh well I guess we all need something to complain about.

[MontegoTwinTurbo]

1. Ugly Headlights
2. No limited slip
3. Rumored 37k price for 135i

[hector]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

maybe they should of just brought us a 125 or even a 120. ofcourse everyone would be debating why didn't they make it a 128 vs a 125 because the 125 really is just a neutered 128. oh well I guess we all need something to complain about.

i don't want to speak/write for the others who've complained about the 128, but at least for myself, and likely the others as well, the beef was that a neutered engine was utilized, not that it wasn't powerful enough. i personally wouldn't object to a base model having a fully tuned 2.5ltr. engine with d.i. with output of 220hp/185-190ft-lbs., that weighed 75-100lbs. less and got significantly better mileage than the 128 with the 3ltr. mill.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Garrett

So you admit you knew, yet you trying to falsly make people believe it was the engine and not an oil cooler issue..? As it's well documented than many, many 6-speeds didn't come with the oil cooler either. Why skirt the truth?

spinzero is right, you are just a human-brickwall hybird....

Understand two things: the problem is the engine overheating; the solution is the oil cooler. The oil coolers aren't failing, the engines are which is causing the necessary need of oil coolers.

Originally Posted by Garrett

Wait.. are you suggesting that MT review car overheated? I thought it went into "limp mode" to protect the car from overheating! Which was a result of that car comming out of Germany without an oil cooler.

A car going into limp mode IS an example of the car overheating! Of course, with the advanced engine technology now-a-days, the engine will not let itself go over a certain point where serious engine damage occurs. However, numerous owners are reporting engine temperatures above 300 degrees which is where serious oil damage occurs (which eventually causes engine damage).

And if you think that an engine going into limp mode after two laps is an acceptable thing...

Originally Posted by Garrett

Read up on BMWefficiencydynamics...! Thats why I supplied you with the term. Just google it and read. Watch the video at bmw web-tv and you'll see when he asked the lead engineer about the engine and he remarks about the n54 running hotter for efficiencydynamics.

Post me the link. I have read up on BMW EfficientDynamics but never noticed anyone saying that the N54 is designed to run at 300 degrees.

Originally Posted by Garrett

In basic trim, the 128i will be under $30k and the 135i wll be mid $30's. That was already mentioned by BMW.

Thanks for those specifics.

Under 30k, could be anything from 27-29,995, and mid 30s could be anything from 34-37,000. Makes a HUGE difference.

Originally Posted by Garrett

The 128i is not neutered

WHAT?!? Did you just ignore everything that spinzero and I have told you? Get this into your head: the N52 in the 128/328/528/Z4 is a neutered version of the N53 in the 130/330/530/Z4. There is no denying that.

Originally Posted by Garrett

You seem to be so much orientated on PERFORMANCE, yet fixated on the base model, yet relunctant to admit that for a nominal cost you can upgrade to a near supercar type performance, that your not considering the 135i..?

Wow is this statement awful....

First: I am buying a BMW! Why should I not be focused on performance? I guess the Ultimate Driving Machine only applies to specifically designated models.

Second: How can you call the price difference between the 128i and 135i a "nominal" difference? I wish everyone had the imaginary budget you claim to have. As I have said before, if price wasnt issue, I would be looking at an M3. Not a 1-Series. It is an entry-level model for a reason. You can only afford what you can afford.

For the same price, every one of my wants could be satisfied. Instead, BMW is sending us a neutered engine with artificially restrained high-rpm performance.

Originally Posted by Garrett

I don't know why this is, but BMW has the solution, your just not accepting it. Now, I can understand if the 135i is not financially viable for some or the wife imposed a set limit, etc. But, (again) there is a performance version of the car your looking at, but the base model is simple not it.

Oh my gosh... some reason! Of course the only reason I am looking at the base model is because of budget. And as I have mentioned numerous times, there is no reason why the base model could not satisfy all of my wants. To suggest that base-model BMWs are not performance-orientated models is completely ridiculous.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by hector

i don't want to speak/write for the others who've complained about the 128, but at least for myself, and likely the others as well, the beef was that a neutered engine was utilized, not that it wasn't powerful enough. i personally wouldn't object to a base model having a fully tuned 2.5ltr. engine with d.i. with output of 220hp/185-190ft-lbs., that weighed 75-100lbs. less and got significantly better mileage than the 128 with the 3ltr. mill.

the 325i are still 3.0 liter di motors at a lower stage of tune 218 hp. BMW was nice enough to give us over here a more highly tuned 328i with 230hp. you can just as easily think of a 130i as a tuned up or tweaked 128i rather than the 128i being a neutered 130i. BMW is just keeping suit with the 3series. you can't get 330i anymore.