Was looking to move from a 128 to a 135 but...

[crowtrobot]

...I test drove a 135 for the first time this weekend and was not really blown away by the package. I have an '11 128, and the test car was a '08 135, both with OEM sport suspension and pretty equivalent mileage, and the 135 definitely felt heavier (which it obviously is), and the steering felt a little more vague. Power and braking were definitely there, so there is that, but not sure if that's enough to make up for the enjoyment I get out of the steering and butt feel in my 128. Also, FWIW, the 135 was running wider, 255 Conti DS, vs. the 205 Goodyear allseasons I have on my 128 now for the fall/winter, but I'd think that the summers would be better not worse.

Not trying to start a flame war, just wanted to ask people here who have maybe driven both cars or have more experience, if they have the same impression that I do?

Since there aren't many of these cars in my area to test drive, I'm curious if this is something inherent in the car, or if it was just something with that particular car's setup, and what that might be.

Happy to hear people's thoughts.

[Ric in RVA]

I have owned both. A 2012 128i Sport and a 2011 135i M sport.

The 128 definitely feels more agile and ready to play. It is not intimidating at all in its responses. The steering is lighter and the suspension feels like it reacts better (Which I put down to lighter wheels and brakes).

It sounds lovely with a PE installed, appliance like without one.

I enjoyed it and would have happily driven it forever.

That car died an untimely death and I replaced it with a 135i.

The 135 is heavier feeling, a little less communicative, better brakes and a little more refined feeling. It has massively more acceleration and grunt.

I have run both hard through the mountains and both are exceedingly competent and wonderful cars to drive.

Exhaust is better stock.

It does have a JB4 which I set to keep the exhaust open and run map 5 (and a metal charge pipe!)

I had a 1990 318is and a 1987 325is and the feeling was similar. "Same" car but different feel.

The 128 I have described as a puppy ready to play, you can run it up the gears and NOT be going a billion miles an hour....and the 135 is a Doberman that you are having to keep reigned in and if it gets away from you it could be trouble.

I'd take either. But I don't miss my 128i. ( I do miss my I- Drive and Nav and auto high beams though)

I do love the huge torque and HP of the N55 135i.

[c1pher]

I have never driven a 128i, but have driven both a 228i and an M235i. I can relate to what you may have noticed comparing the 128 and 135. When driving the 228i, you're a little less nose heavy (more balanced) and on a short track can probably carry a little more speed through a curve. The M235i makes up for that slight shortcoming by picking up more steam in the straights.

And to add further credence to your assessment, a related comparison:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...mparison-test/

[Dylanize]

I agree on a lot of what Ric said.

They're both great cars, and honestly I'd stick with the 128i unless there is an absolute reason you need a new car.

[The Wind Breezes]

Why do you want a 135? The cars are mostly pretty similar except for the power, which you won't be able to use whatsoever on the street except just racing some people from the stoplights. If that's not important to you, then food for thought, your 128 already goes fast enough to get your license taken away if you hold the gas open for more than a few seconds. Why do you need more power?

[Ric in RVA]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Why do you want a 135? The cars are mostly pretty similar except for the power, which you won't be able to use whatsoever on the street except just racing some people from the stoplights. If that's not important to you, then food for thought, your 128 already goes fast enough to get your license taken away if you hold the gas open for more than a few seconds. Why do you need more power?

He has a very valid point. I used to drive much harder in my 128 whereas I have to hold back on the 135 or risk tickets. (In Virginia over 80 is RECKLESS!)

I wouldn't sell my 128 for a 135 OR Vice Versa, but if shopping clean slate drive both.

[crowtrobot]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Why do you want a 135? The cars are mostly pretty similar except for the power, which you won't be able to use whatsoever on the street except just racing some people from the stoplights. If that's not important to you, then food for thought, your 128 already goes fast enough to get your license taken away if you hold the gas open for more than a few seconds. Why do you need more power?

I DD and track my car, so I'm looking to get more power on the straights, and more particularly up the hills when on the track. I'm all over Caymans and M235s through the twisty bits, then get smoked when there's a straightaway.

You have a very good point about the day-to-day driving though. Track driving's a small percentage of the time I actually spend in the car, and the responsiveness of my 128 just brings a smile to my face, even at normal street speeds. Also, Ric in RVA is right, sounds great with a PE on it

Appreciate the opinions guys, thanks for replying. Just wanted to see if it was placebo, or if there really is a difference between the two other than power. Glad it didn't get anyone riled up over saying one is better than the other too!

[Dackelone]

Some 135i's had adaptive steering(variable ratio) which wasn't as good(sporty) as the standard steering rack.

Perhaps you just need to drive a few more 135i's. Tires also make a huge difference in handling "feel"(turn in, etc).

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by crowtrobot

track

135i needs a lot of mods if you have the skills to run it hard on the track. You'll want to run a higher proportion of water in the radiator or get a bigger radiator, bigger intercooler, and add a cooler for the DKG if you get one of those. You also want to have someone code out the brake-assist features (one of the things it does is reputed to possibly screw up your brake pistons by encouraging slapping as a result of pre-tensioning the brakes) and rear "e-diff" hardware. Not only does the car do a dozen funky things to get between you and the brake pedal, it will also try to brake the inside drive wheel when cornering hard with DSC fully off so you get carry a little bit of torque on the outside wheel. The system works like shit and just as importantly it will overheat your rear brakes with all the consequences that entails,and also causing the car to reduce engine power. This happens after like a lap or two going at fast pace. That's why you need to turn the e-diff off, and while you're at it get a LSD (clutch type 2 way, since if you want to thrash the car on the track you deserve a clutch with an engagement worthy of your driving skills). Someone with the BMW standard tools can code all this stuff out for a small fee.

All that stuff is in addition to the usual pads, fluid, tires, etc. I won't even touch the suspension since that's not "necessary" to do to enjoy a trackday, but the other stuff really is if you run a decent pace. You would really, really want, but not "need" camber plates too, otherwise your front tire use won't be very good.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by crowtrobot

I DD and track my car, so I'm looking to get more power on the straights, and more particularly up the hills when on the track. I'm all over Caymans and M235s through the twisty bits, then get smoked when there's a straightaway.

You have a very good point about the day-to-day driving though. Track driving's a small percentage of the time I actually spend in the car, and the responsiveness of my 128 just brings a smile to my face, even at normal street speeds. Also, Ric in RVA is right, sounds great with a PE on it

Appreciate the opinions guys, thanks for replying. Just wanted to see if it was placebo, or if there really is a difference between the two other than power. Glad it didn't get anyone riled up over saying one is better than the other too!

I DD and track too. I tracked a 944S, E36 M3, 944S2 and 951S before the 128. The 128 is replacing the 944S. Yes its faster per lap, and I get a higher top speed on the straight then I got with the 944S, and possibly the M3. The M3 has PSS9s, the 128 is stock.

Bottom line, the 944S is the slowest, but at the end of a session it is more rewarding. Note that I said "replacing". If I DEd more than ten days a year I would keep the 944. I still may just because it is more fun. I think my analogy will fit your situation.

[Lucky1]

FWIW I drove an M235i the other day and you can call me crazy all you want but it didn't feel that much more powerful acceleration wise than my 128i but perhaps is a bit flatter chassis wise in the turns. It does however maintain steam and acceleration at higher speeds when the 128i starts to feel like its out of breath. But I have zero desire to buy a new M235i at current prices thanks to the vague and variable steering not to mention suspension that feels isolated.

Not saying it wasn't a nice car but there was nothing about it that would justify me selling my 128i and opening my wallet up for it. This car is just raw enough yet maintains just enough manners. A few smart suspension mods would make this car just right.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

it didn't feel that much more powerful acceleration wise than my 128i

It's all relative. Both cars are "slow" compared to the fast stuff people have been building for decades. If you want "fast" you better have deep pocket OR the skills to ride a fast motorcycle and not shit yourself. If you drag raced the two cars the 235i would pull the 128 pretty hard but it wouldn't immediately lose it or blow the doors off like if you had, say, a skilled rider on a modern liter bike drag the 128i.

[c1pher]

Two words: Ducati Diavel.

[Matticus91]

Originally Posted by Dylanize

I agree on a lot of what Ric said.

They're both great cars, and honestly I'd stick with the 128i unless there is an absolute reason you need a new car.

This, don't upgrade unless you really want it. You can't go back but you can always upgrade later if you want

[dvno]

Aside from color, I don't miss my 128 at all (2010, sport, auto). I feel like the suspension is more glued to the road and the power is night and day in the 135's favor.

[Esteban]

Never drove a 128i, but love the power of my 135i. I do hear that the 128i has a very balanced feel to it.

[desertman123]

What about power-adding mods to the 128i?

DISA intake, AA headers and BPC tune

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by desertman123

What about power-adding mods to the 128i?

DISA intake, AA headers and BPC tune

That sounds good. Balance and power. Best of both worlds.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by Esteban

That sounds good. Balance and power. Best of both worlds.

The only reason the car's "balanced" in the first place is it doesn't have power--this chassis is a "little" hairy even in 1M configuration and the more power you add, the faster you go, it becomes harder and harder to drive at the limit. And, uh, you won't get much power from an NA engine with that displacement without some real work to raise the redline significantly and help it breathe when it's there. Not real practical for anything but a race car...the turbo has a lot more versatility if you want some occasional speed.

Yes, the 128i has very marginally better weight distribution than the 135i but the key word here is marginal, the 135 is like 52 / 48 anyway.

[Esteban]

crowtrobot I would probably keep my 128i and if I felt like I needed a little more power, mod it as desertman123 suggested.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by Esteban

crowtrobot I would probably keep my 128i and if I felt like I needed a little more power, mod it as desertman123 suggested.

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

The only reason the car's "balanced" in the first place is it doesn't have power--this chassis is a "little" hairy even in 1M configuration and the more power you add, the faster you go, it becomes harder and harder to drive at the limit. And, uh, you won't get much power from an NA engine with that displacement without some real work to raise the redline significantly and help it breathe when it's there. Not real practical for anything but a race car...the turbo has a lot more versatility if you want some occasional speed.

Yes, the 128i has very marginally better weight distribution than the 135i but the key word here is marginal, the 135 is like 52 / 48 anyway.

While you're right that NA motors are usually already squeezed of all the power they can produce from the factory, BMW threw us dogs a bone with the 3-stage intake.

Bolting that on, plus getting a tune to tell the DME to use it (and slightly modify the fuel/ignition tables) is good for a bit of power (BMW's official figures between the 328i and 330i are 230hp and 255hp, respectively). Then our stock headers are shit so some catless ones with equal-length piping is even more beneficial.

Check the graphs. First one is claiming like 50whp from those mods!
http://store.activeautowerke.com/pro...exhaust-header

But I also agree - if you're going for speed then just buy the turbo car and be done. However - I bought my 128i to be easy on the wallet.

[crowtrobot]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

FWIW I drove an M235i the other day and you can call me crazy all you want but it didn't feel that much more powerful acceleration wise than my 128i but perhaps is a bit flatter chassis wise in the turns. It does however maintain steam and acceleration at higher speeds when the 128i starts to feel like its out of breath. But I have zero desire to buy a new M235i at current prices thanks to the vague and variable steering not to mention suspension that feels isolated.

Not saying it wasn't a nice car but there was nothing about it that would justify me selling my 128i and opening my wallet up for it. This car is just raw enough yet maintains just enough manners. A few smart suspension mods would make this car just right.

That's exactly the feeling I got from the 135i - didn't feel sooo much more powerful, but I did get the impression that it would build more speed better while already at high speed. Didn't feel *bad* necessarily, but like you said, wasn't anywhere near good enough to go through the hassle of trading up.

desertman123 Already done I have an N51 128i, so already have the three stage intake manifold, added the PE and the AA Tune over the summer (stock headers though).

Definitely off the 135i wagon, but test drove an E92 M3 this past weekend and good lord, might just go balls out in that direction come spring... That said, there's something special about the simplicity and size of my 128. Decisions decisions.